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Endless revisions, exceeded conditions & a super slow job.

Need advise about my first job.


I'm a graphic designer with more than 15 years of experience. I just knew upwork and joined a few weeks ago.
Got my first job to design a logo for a fixed price shortly after that. I discussed with the client before starting about the number of designs i will deliver him to choose from. I told him i usually make 3 and he told me he needed more because he is not the decision maker and because he has no idea about how the logo should look like. Finally we agreed on 5 designs to choose from.
I made him 5 designs and sent them to him. The next day he requested additional 3 to choose from regardless what we agreed on. I designed the additional ones and sent to him as well to be total 8 designs. I did that without any discussions with him cause i wanted to make a good impression in my first job for a good feedback.
Afterwards he selected 1 of the 8 designs and asked for a revision after revision for the selected design until it reached total 10 revisions and i delivered all.
After all this he suddenly showed me an old logo design that was previously made for his company and asked me to recreate it entirely (according to the company owner's opinion) to be the 9th design i'm gonna deliver to pick from. And all that for the same fixed price.
I asked politely for a price adjustment as we exceeded the agreement conditions and he ignored it.
Anyway, i made him the requested remake for the logo he sent me (two revisions). That was 4 days ago and he just replied once after that saying he's waiting for the owner's feedback and i'm sure that he will request more modifications.
I spent so many hours on this job & still doing and it seems that it's not going to end.

 

My questions are:


1 - Should i present my work officially and request payment or it will be understood as a hostile action from his point of view ?
2 - Should i / How can i ask for a price adjustment officially as he significantly exceeded the agreement conditions ?
3 - If i did the above can he leave me a bad feedback that may affect my new profile ?

4 - Would it affect my profile negativelly that the job is taking too long (about three weeks) although that is caused by the client ?

 

Thanks,

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

I'm a graphic/web designer here on the platform, and here are my thoughts on the situation: 

 

1 - Should i present my work officially and request payment or it will be understood as a hostile action from his point of view ?

 

I don't think it's hostile since the client knew how many concepts and revisions you were suppose to offer. I would wait and see their opinion on the new design you sent, and if they still want more, stick to the fact that you need extra to create even more concepts/revisions. Always state in your milestone how many concepts and revisions they get for the price, and before you are hired, tell them it directly too while in talks with them,  as sometimes clients will overlook the description of the milestone.

 


2 - Should i / How can i ask for a price adjustment officially as he significantly exceeded the agreement conditions ?

 

At this point you've already been a victim of scope creep. You asked them for extra, they ignored that request and it went beyond the original agreement once you did work for them anyways. Since there was no new agreement, it may now be hard to tell them how much extra without them wondering why. Doing what I said from the first answer will prevent this in the future. To not fall victim to scope creep, state the # of concepts/revisions at first and if it goes beyond that, say to the client. "Our current agreement is for [current terms] at [agreed cost]. From what you shared, you’d like to add [scope creep request]… I’d be willing to do that for [new cost based on additional request]. Or if that’s outside your budget, we can just stick to our original terms.” 

 

This doesn't mean you can't ask again for extra, but it may be awkward now that you've already done it without them answering your previous request for extra. They did ignore you which isn't very nice. You deserve it so if you do, ask them if they saw your previous message about extra compensation, as the scope of the project was exceeded beyond the original agreement.  

 

3 - If i did the above can he leave me a bad feedback that may affect my new profile ?

 

That's the tough part, they can leave you bad feedback and anyone can do this. The best thing to do is not approach the client in an agressive way about it. Be courteous to them while still being set on your terms. Tell them you want to finish the project and that you have spent a lot of time on it, but you need to be compensated for extra work as it went beyond the scope.  

 

4 - Would it affect my profile negativelly that the job is taking too long (about three weeks) although that is caused by the client ?

 

I don't think there are time limits for projects. I've had projects go on for much longer than the due date, so no, it won't affect you or the client. Telling the client the truth though about how the project is going over what was discussed will hopefully help with getting the project back on track. 

 

I don't think sending drafts before you are hired is ever good. Spec work will never help you and just have you doing free work for nothing. It's also against upworks terms. Clients should select based on portfolios and skillsets. Creating a concept is over half of the work, and the rest is refining it.  So why do over half the work and give away your ideas for free? That's why a client hires you in the first place. 

View solution in original post

12 REPLIES 12
prestonhunter
Community Guru

This is a common problem that newbie freelancers face. So don't take it personally. You need to learn how to use the Upwork interface and tools to properly manage fixed-price contracts so as to avoid scope creep.

 

One thing you need to do is discern between clients who are capable of using the fixed-price contract model, and those who aren't. A certain percentage are psychologically incapable of comprehending this type of contract. With them you must only use hourly contracts.

so whatmdo you suggest for me to do in this particular job ?

tlsanders
Community Guru

John, it's hard to guess how your client will feel about a request for payment, but that doesn't change the fact that it's long past time to submit one. You entered into a contract to complete five designs and have done double that, not including revisions. You finished the job.

 

There is a possibility that the client will leave negative feedback, but the alternative appears to be working on this same job without additional payment for the rest of your life. Sometimes you just have to politely pull the plug and move forward. It's harder to absorb negative feedback right out of the gate, without a history of good ratings, but you can move past it if it comes to that.

What i understood that you are suggesting that i officially present my work and request payment despite what he may think of it.

What about the price adjustment. Does upwork has any solution regarding that the agreement conditions were exceeded ?

re: "Does upwork has any solution regarding that the agreement conditions were exceeded?"

 

Answer: No.

 

Upwork offers no solution. This is between you and the client.

 

Clients may pay a bonus at any time. But that would come about as a result of you discussing the matter with the client. Upwork is not going to intervene.


@John M wrote:

What i understood that you are suggesting that i officially present my work and request payment despite what he may think of it.

What about the price adjustment. Does upwork has any solution regarding that the agreement conditions were exceeded ?


John,

 

Unfortunately your contract is between you and the client, Upwork will not interfere with that, nor should they. This is your business. If your bid stated a specific number of revisions which you have repeatedly reminded the client of, I would suggest you submit a final iteration of the logo, hit the "get paid" button, and then wait it out. If the client does nothing, your money will automatically be released in 14 days. Since you did specify the number of revisions you would provide, I seriously doubt the client will dispute anything.

 

In future bids, make sure you add verbiage that covers what is called "scope creep", to prevent this from happening again.

 

That's my 2¢.

Thanks Virginia for you reply.

 

Does the number of designs and revisions have to be stated clearly in my bidding or it also can be agreed during the  prior to hiring chat in order to save me from the "scope creep"?


@John M wrote:

Thanks Virginia for you reply.

 

Does the number of designs and revisions have to be stated clearly in my bidding or it also can be agreed during the  prior to hiring chat in order to save me from the "scope creep"?


Both. State it clearly in your bids, and in the initial discussion phase as well.

Ok. Thanks a lot for your replies.

 

My last inquiry is what if he asks for more revisions and major modifications after i request my payment ?

@ John M --

 

Preston always seems to have the best wording/approach for this type of situation. It usually goes something like this:

 

Dear Kevin --  Yes, I can certainly do this additional work for you. As this goes beyond the scope of our original contract, we will need to agree on new terms to cover this part of the project. Would you like to set that up as a fixed-price job or as an hourly job?

 

 

That's a liitle unfamilliar, Cristina.

Do you start to make drafts and offer them to the client before the start of the contract ?

I'm a graphic/web designer here on the platform, and here are my thoughts on the situation: 

 

1 - Should i present my work officially and request payment or it will be understood as a hostile action from his point of view ?

 

I don't think it's hostile since the client knew how many concepts and revisions you were suppose to offer. I would wait and see their opinion on the new design you sent, and if they still want more, stick to the fact that you need extra to create even more concepts/revisions. Always state in your milestone how many concepts and revisions they get for the price, and before you are hired, tell them it directly too while in talks with them,  as sometimes clients will overlook the description of the milestone.

 


2 - Should i / How can i ask for a price adjustment officially as he significantly exceeded the agreement conditions ?

 

At this point you've already been a victim of scope creep. You asked them for extra, they ignored that request and it went beyond the original agreement once you did work for them anyways. Since there was no new agreement, it may now be hard to tell them how much extra without them wondering why. Doing what I said from the first answer will prevent this in the future. To not fall victim to scope creep, state the # of concepts/revisions at first and if it goes beyond that, say to the client. "Our current agreement is for [current terms] at [agreed cost]. From what you shared, you’d like to add [scope creep request]… I’d be willing to do that for [new cost based on additional request]. Or if that’s outside your budget, we can just stick to our original terms.” 

 

This doesn't mean you can't ask again for extra, but it may be awkward now that you've already done it without them answering your previous request for extra. They did ignore you which isn't very nice. You deserve it so if you do, ask them if they saw your previous message about extra compensation, as the scope of the project was exceeded beyond the original agreement.  

 

3 - If i did the above can he leave me a bad feedback that may affect my new profile ?

 

That's the tough part, they can leave you bad feedback and anyone can do this. The best thing to do is not approach the client in an agressive way about it. Be courteous to them while still being set on your terms. Tell them you want to finish the project and that you have spent a lot of time on it, but you need to be compensated for extra work as it went beyond the scope.  

 

4 - Would it affect my profile negativelly that the job is taking too long (about three weeks) although that is caused by the client ?

 

I don't think there are time limits for projects. I've had projects go on for much longer than the due date, so no, it won't affect you or the client. Telling the client the truth though about how the project is going over what was discussed will hopefully help with getting the project back on track. 

 

I don't think sending drafts before you are hired is ever good. Spec work will never help you and just have you doing free work for nothing. It's also against upworks terms. Clients should select based on portfolios and skillsets. Creating a concept is over half of the work, and the rest is refining it.  So why do over half the work and give away your ideas for free? That's why a client hires you in the first place. 

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