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arunavaroy
Community Member

Expensive Connects and Unresponsive Clients

Hello Everyone,

Hope all are fine and doing well too. I just want to share 2 point and Upwork will look on these.

 

Point 1. We are freelancers, Already paying 20% to Upwork until we earn $500, Then its 10%. Its not easy to earn $10,000 from a Client, So, I dont mention about 5% Upwork fees here. After that Freelancers are paying $2 per withdrawl. Now, We have to buy connects and each connect is $0.15. Is it not expensive? If its price $0.10 per connect, then I hope it will be at least reasonable. If I do math correctly then $0.90 for a big budget job. Is it not expensive?

 

Point 2. This is very big problem when we will spend connects to applying job, After that no response or activity from Client's end. So, We will simply loose the connects and money too. Hope, I am right.

 

Solution A - If a Client posts job then there should be a timeline. Such as if he does not start the job within 2 weeks then Job posting will be auto cancel and we will get back our connects.

 

Solution B - When any client post the job then he should to choose a deadtime of starting that project. If timeline fails then job will be auto cancel and we will get back our connects.

 

Now each connect is value our money. Hope, Upwork will take care about this ๐Ÿ™‚

34 REPLIES 34
2f5ff562
Community Member

I think they are more interested on clients rather than freelancers, and thatยดs good, they have enough freelancers, and many many many of them are unproductive and only causing  maintenance cost of some sort, they have said many times that low cost jobs at the end are way more expensive to maintain. So they are foncing us to be either EXTRA selective on our choices so that only people who are certain to get the job bid, or forcing us to upgrade freelancer membership.

But i think mainly the main interest here is to keep clients happy, they bring the money... i guess.

I know itยดs a lot of money to spend here... but still this platform gets you clients you otherwise wouldnยดt be able to get... so... either is leaving here with no money... or stay happily and earn some extra bucks. Or make a living too.

Provision of clients in Upwork should not make them arrogant. They should be more responsible. Why can't they severe on unresponsive clients and those who disappear after making freelancers work hard for them? Upwork will disintegrate soon.

I hate how I can't quote on this Kindle...Teja, it's not about fair or unfair. Freelancers are sellers. Clients are buyers. Sellers **always** have to court buyers. It's a lot easier to say "hey, want to take this money?" than "hey, want to give me some money?" This is true of any buyer/seller relationship I've ever heard of or been involved in. Of course things are harder for sellers and pickier/more choosy for buyers.

You buy stuff. Do you want to walk into a store and hear "Okay, you have X minutes to buy something or you have to get out because now you're costing us in electricity and in employees' salaries without giving us that money back"?

Mateo,

 

I must say I never thought about the cost from this perspective.  Thank you for sharing your insight and opinion.  It makes sense that it is costing them to maintain these weaker profiles.

 

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Ayan,

 

The monthly cost of connects per job won is not $0.15 x the number of connects used to propose to those jobs you win.

 

Your monthly cost of connects is $0.15 X the number of connects you spend sending proposals to all potential jobs divided by the number of jobs won.

 

If you spend 4 connects applying to 10 jobs and you win one job out of every 10 you submit proposals to, you spend $6.00 for the connects needed to win each job (4 X 10 connects X $0.15).

As if that makes it fair for freelancers! 

Will,

 

Don't forget the 20% that Upwork takes as well.

This has not happened to me. I have spent A LOT of money in the last two months on connects and not getting any jobs from applying. I'm coming out in the negative here but I can't stop applying to jobs. So when clients do not respond to jobs posted 14 days ago, it cost me money for that connect. 

rajibtkw
Community Member

Yes, you are right.
polyniki
Community Member

I would like too to get my connects back when a client closes the job with no hire or simply never hires someone, never responds and leaves the job open for ages. I have also seen several times clients post a job ad, not hire anyone and repost exactly the same ad some days later. Not renew the add, simply post a new ad with the same contents. This is so fustrating.

 You are correct ๐Ÿ™‚

tlsanders
Community Member


Ayan B wrote:

 

Solution B - When any client post the job then he should to choose a deadtime of starting that project. If timeline fails then job will be auto cancel and we will get back our connects.

 

I'm so tired of other freelancers trying to ruin my business just because it operates differently than theirs. This oft-proposed plan would have cheated me of at least $25,000 over the past couple of years, since many of my best clients take a few weeks to a few months to hire.

 

Clients who are looking for the best-qualified, highly-skilled freelancer don't jump to hire. They take time to find the right fit, just like an employer does for a high-level job.

I agree. A potential client closed the job I applied for but they still want to hire me, they just don't know when they are starting the project. So we are keeping in touch, and eventually it will be a big project for me. But I have been talking to them for 6 months. It is the nature of how these contracts often work in my field, especially working with researchers doing scientific research and waiting to see if their data is ready to apply for an SBIR. A potential client in good faith may not understand exactly what their needs are in my field, and I help them figure it out. It can result in bigger projects or smaller, but more frequent projects, but it takes time to develop the right scope of work. One client posted an initial budget of $3500 but then wanted to split the project in half and try out the first phase of the project, then continue if we were successful. We were, and she did do another contract with me.  

 

Maybe it's just the nature of my business. I am very selective about which jobs I apply for, and that can mean fewer proposals because there are a lot of jobs that have one sentence descriptions, and I don't want to waste time getting into a discussion with someone who isn't even eligible for a grant or has no chance of getting one. I don't want to ruin my job success (not JSS, but my personal grant success rate) or waste their money applying for something I know they won't get. It's a matter of ethics. 

 

But limited the amount of time an RFP is open could have big ramifications on me being able to close deals with clients, which can take longer in my field as a lot of the proposal process is educating the client on how grant seeking works and what they should expect and what is possible. 

lesterb22
Community Member

Ayan, Exactly.

 

This is my problem now... too costly...

I did many revisions on my profile , opened up topics to help me stand out the crowd because my jss is somehow i dont know why at 63%... too low for me to get hired.

No clients , no source of income. spent my last money for connects searching for "Hope"

1 week later got nothing.

Job post eats up our connects and unfortunately we cannot do refund unless job post is closed.

I am losing hope now.

Freelancers need help too...

I prefer the old rules where others can get free 80 connects each month. 

If you are new... you will have doubt on investing something here with very low probability of getting a job.

 

From a business(upwork) stand point this makes a lot of sense. If you are not careful you can blow 60-70  connects within 2-3 days, maybe 1 if you just bid on everything, if you are very very very  picky about projects which you choose to bet on, I'd estimate it would take maybe week and a half to place 10-15 bids (at least in my field). Now upwork states that on average it should take you 5$ per month to fill all your bidding needs (which is a complete joke in my opinion when considering competition, fake job postings and straight up irrational behavior of the market ). Especially if you are starting freelancer. If you are hunting for high profile (i guess anything above 200 usd is high profile project for upwork) projects (6 connects) choosing carefully, placing ~2 bids per day you'd need 240-360 connects per month. 

Their stock price is not shinning and this new connect policy is a new attempt to squeeze that additional income from freelancers and boost numbers for investors. It also doesn't workout if you are a new client as top talent would most likely avoid bidding on your project as you have 0 history. 

I haven't been in the open marketplace in a couple weeks, but bidding on even just one a day every day is hard. When I haven't been around for a while, I can usually find a couple right away but then I don't see anything for a few days after that.

 

I don't win much in the open marketplace anymore. Most of my stuffs goes into the void ๐Ÿ˜„


Karolis S wrote:

From a business(upwork) stand point this makes a lot of sense. If you are not careful you can blow 60-70  connects within 2-3 days, maybe 1 if you just bid on everything, if you are very very very  picky about projects which you choose to bet on, I'd estimate it would take maybe week and a half to place 10-15 bids (at least in my field). Now upwork states that on average it should take you 5$ per month to fill all your bidding needs (which is a complete joke in my opinion when considering competition, fake job postings and straight up irrational behavior of the market ). Especially if you are starting freelancer. If you are hunting for high profile (i guess anything above 200 usd is high profile project for upwork) projects (6 connects) choosing carefully, placing ~2 bids per day you'd need 240-360 connects per month. 


If you average 2 bids per day (60 per month) you'll be spending LESS on connects now than you would have done in the old system. In the old system you would have got the first 30 bids free, but then you would have paid $60 for the other 30 bids. In the new system your 240-360 connects only cost you $36-$54.

Looking at it, it seems like joke of a system, but I'll reserve my full judgement. But 1 thing is clear, they are attempting to monetize everything they can on this platform. Upwork by far has the highest fees/maintenance costs.

You are correct. Upwork simply takes our hard earning. Unresponsive Clients issue is really horrible. Day by Day, Upwork changes and updates pricing plan. But they dont take any step for Unresponsive Clients

For me, its becoming investors portal instead of job hunting portal. those who only benefits are the higher officials. clearly not fair for new freelancers or those on mid edge. Why would I risk my last money over a job post where probably chances of getting hired is too low. they really must consider freelancers who come here for job seeking. start up their life and develop their passion.

tlbp
Community Member


Lester B wrote:

For me, its becoming investors portal instead of job hunting portal. those who only benefits are the higher officials. clearly not fair for new freelancers or those on mid edge. Why would I risk my last money over a job post where probably chances of getting hired is too low. they really must consider freelancers who come here for job seeking. start up their life and develop their passion.


If your JSS is in the 60's and you don't know why then you shouldn't be bidding. You should be determining what skills can execute professionally and well. Yes, in the past, Upwork was a place where you could get started as a freelancer and "develop" your passion. That is no longer true. You must already have solid skills and be able to deliver with excellence for every client every time. If you cannot do that yet, then purchasing connects is a bad idea. 

Once your JSS slips below 50% it will no longer be visible to clients. Try other freelance platforms or work with clients you find on your own to develop your skills while you wait for that drop to occur. Then, you can try again on Upwork. Your past client's reviews will still be visible, though. 

For freelancer new to the platform, this is a cautionary tale. You can no longer risk faking it to make it on Upwork because those reviews stay with you and you have real $ to lose by sending applications just to 'give it a try'/ 

lesterb22
Community Member

How can i increase this if no one wants to accept me though ? my clients been to shaddy... i want to send screenshots here to validate that I keep out on reaching them and they are the ones who do not respond and yet they give me a very low review ...

Its very hard once your reputation is tarnished and visible to others. + there is a huge risk to mess it up if job is valued a lot more than your other projects. As it can send your JSS down the drain. 

kristenbrady
Community Member

Upwork is so expensive now to bid for a job that they have almost priced me out. I've been a freelancer for over 10 years on this platform and this is way too expensive, especially for the low-ball payouts some of these clients offer. I've been having to work Uber just to make ends meet. Don't get too greedy Upwork!!n Please Smiley Happy

Kristen,

 

We don't know what the annual spectrum of projects on Upwork looks like (how many $50 projects? how many $250 projects? how many $1,000 projects? etc.), but I think we can assume Upwork nets very little income from $50 projects if they, generally speaking, involve lower quality freelancers and lower quality clients who tend to require a lot of support, fraud and other resources.

 

Upwork loses money year after year. In order to turn that around, I expect Upwork will become a less and less welcoming platform for the very low end of freelancing projects. Raising fees is one way for Upwork to get rid of both the projects and the freelancers who work on them. 

 

That's a harsh reality for those clients and freelancers who work at the very low end, but it is reality.

Yes I suspect that this is Upwork's way of weeding out people who are not as serious. And keeping more quality freelancers and clients


Will L wrote:

Kristen,

 

We don't know what the annual spectrum of projects on Upwork looks like (how many $50 projects? how many $250 projects? how many $1,000 projects? etc.), but I think we can assume Upwork nets very little income from $50 projects if they, generally speaking, involve lower quality freelancers and lower quality clients who tend to require a lot of support, fraud and other resources.

 

Upwork loses money year after year. In order to turn that around, I expect Upwork will become a less and less welcoming platform for the very low end of freelancing projects. Raising fees is one way for Upwork to get rid of both the projects and the freelancers who work on them. 

 

That's a harsh reality for those clients and freelancers who work at the very low end, but it is reality.

 

Hi Will,

 

I agree with all of that, but if the changes do mean that those freelancers you refer to will be lost to the site, surely, they will just be replaced by others who are new to it and end up in the same category....and so it goes on? I don't have an answer, unless there is some way of implementing a stricter and more selective process for those wishing to join the site as freelancers.


 

This is somewhat old now, but like Stack Overflow, I'm adding to it ๐Ÿ™‚

If there's an unresponsive client it only makes sense to refund the connects. Its not the freelancer's fault. Perhaps the freelancer is interested in the project and trying to help the person, well then the freelancer gets the short end of the stick. I don't go along with people who say that's the freelancer's fault.

 

At the same time, I would rather Upwork make it a bit more difficult to join like with a one time $1,000 fee to freelancers and for clients something similar. Along with that a background check maybe. Etc. This should weed out many of the worst of both.

Technically, its not really all that nice to post work and then just do nothing without any guarantees. They said it takes a lot of determination and time to get started here and it will with its flaws.

Technically, its not really all that nice to post work and then just do nothing without any guarantees

 

lol it's like people have never job hunted or lost a sale.


Ryan B wrote:

 

At the same time, I would rather Upwork make it a bit more difficult to join like with a one time $1,000 fee to freelancers and for clients something similar. Along with that a background check maybe. Etc. This should weed out many of the worst of both.


And it will also discourage rather a lot of genuine clients from signing up and putting more money into the system.

I'll pass. 


Ryan B wrote:

 

At the same time, I would rather Upwork make it a bit more difficult to join like with a one time $1,000 fee to freelancers and for clients something similar. Along with that a background check maybe. Etc.


Terrible idea.

Creating such a huge barrier to entry for clients (who bring the money that keeps the whole thing afloat) would be a literally insane move, and I'd rather not pay 30+ % in fees for Upwork to do hundrets of thousands of background checks in hundreds of countries.

 


Ryan B wrote:

This should weed out many of the worst of both.


It would also kill off the platform..

 


Ryan B wrote:

Technically, its not really all that nice to post work and then just do nothing without any guarantees.


It's like going into a shop and trying on a pair of boots and not buying them. As a shop-keeper you don't get your rent back just because customers look but don't buy. Shops don't get their advertising budget back, or the printing costs for the flyer that made me go in there in the first place to try out the boots I didn't buy. Those costs are spent, even if 20 customers go in the shop to try on boots and don't buy.

 

 


Kristen B wrote:

Upwork is so expensive now to bid for a job that they have almost priced me out. I've been a freelancer for over 10 years on this platform and this is way too expensive, especially for the low-ball payouts some of these clients offer. I've been having to work Uber just to make ends meet. Don't get too greedy Upwork!!n Please Smiley Happy


________________________________________

 

Kristen,I think you should up your rates to at least $40 per hour. At $15.00 I'm not surprised you are 

priced out. Your clients must be thrilled to bits that they have a good writer for virtually nothing... 

 

I think you should revamp your pricing and factor in all Upwork's additional costs into your offer You will not lose clients, I think it is more than likely you will find more. 

irieislandgirl
Community Member

I'm in total agreement with you! 

hfvidal
Community Member

yes this sucks=(

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