Extend no-earnings period

[atlinguist]

As a freelancer working alone, I would like to suggest or bring forward the motion that profiles should not be set to "locked" or private automatically after a period of 30 days without earnings. 

Reason: Translating a book of, say, 85,000 words takes MORE THAN 30 BUSINESS DAYS if done properly (by "hand and brain" rather than machine). 

Does anybody share my view?

[a86c4ae1]

I absolutely share your view. I was just set to private after closing/finishing a job a couple weeks ago. I've applied to 9 jobs this month and they're acting like I haven't used my account in months. I've only been on upwork a few monthsh as it is, jumped through all of their (upwork's) hoops, and earned them a few hundred bucks in the process. 

I also suffer from being "new" and not having a 90% rating yet... even though my first to gigs went swimmingly. So it's a catch 22. 

Seems like they're just pushing people to pay a membership. 

[g_vasilevski · Accepted solution]

Thank you for your feedback Alexandra and Robert, I will share it with our product managers.

Robert, I would like to confirm that we also have free options to reset your profile visibility back to public:

1. Requests from us (Moderators) here or our customer support to update your visibility
2. Earn funds on a contract.

[atlinguist]

Goran,

Many thanks for your help! 

My main concern is that, having earned a reasonably presentable profile through hard work and reliability on and for the benefit of this platform, I am not able to ADVERTISE to new clients.

I have learnt to accept not receiving responses from clients or being told that I am too expensive but I don't want to relinquish the chance to present my wares. More clients = more income. Right?

[tlbp]

It is my understanding that Upwork wants clients to see active, successful freelancers when they perform searches. Thus, the profiles that are viewable via search should be those freelancers who are ready to take on a gig and have demonstrated success on the platform. 

Being set to private doesn't prevent a freelancer who is available or believes himself to be suited for a gig from sending a proposal. And, the setting isn't locked. Freelancers can request that their profile be reset to public. 

[atlinguist]

Tonya, 

I agree that clients looking to have a job done quickly -- "1,000 words by tomorrow" or "a quick proofread by this evening", for example -- would want to be presented with a list of the talent available at that moment. But take a moment to empathise ( a currently trending concept, right? Sorry 'bout that.) with freelancer like me: sole proprietor working to make a living from translating, transcribing and sundry language-related projects. Book-translation projects require me to invest my time (for terminology, subject-matter or genre research) from the start and to commit for the long term. I may very well provide a short sample translation and then return to being available for other clients, but what I would ot do is supply my client with instalments just for the sake of keeping the Upwork algorithm happy. Quality would suffer, it would be a constant to and fro of emails and text versions (because any book needs at least a final check as a whole), and the amount earned by the platform would remain the same.

 I presented my case simply because I am a great believr in the power of the machine and the strengths of algorithms if put to proper use, and I don't understand why the algorithm can't figure out that it would earn the same from one large chunk spread out over 40 days as it does from lots of little milestones. Because my per-word and my hourly fee is the same, but the added benefit for me (and ultimately the platform) is that I could advertise (the whole point, right?) for clients who would take a while to choose their provider anyway and who would be able to hire me straight AFTER I have completed my other projects. 

[tlsanders]

I don't care at all about the "set to private" issue, but I suspect that the specific concern you raise here is unique, as I don't imagine that most freelancers work on a project that large as a single milestone. In fact, that sort of defeats the purpose of the milestone system and the protections its meant to offer.

[atlinguist]

Well, in that case I guess I should take my book clients off the platform.

[florydev]

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Alexandra H wrote:

Well, in that case I guess I should take my book clients off the platform.

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The negative that being private has is that it prevents you from being visible to client searching.  You can actually request to change it back:

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003975967-Profile-Changed-to-Private-?flash_digest=5...

There is an unlimited supply of those requests you just have to do it.  The only other way is to pay for FP+ and I suspect the only reason this exists is so they can have that benefit (which it is not much of one since you can request it back).

[atlinguist]

Thanks, Mark.

I fact, I just did that before writing my post. And I have had to do it before because I translate books. And I keep a tab on everything pertaining to my business: deadlines, profile setting, earnings,...

But why should I have to keep doing that? Much easier to let the machine (the algorithm) do these kinds of menial tasks. 

[sergio-soria]

Alexandra, you got a point. But yeah, I was going to suggest the use of milestones, just like Tiffany says. Each chapter of the book could be a milestone, just an idea. Or you can use the clock in hourly jobs. What Upwork want to see within those 30 days is some cash flow.

I still wonder why no-earnings freelancers keep showing in searches, even people who have not earned a single dollar in years. Yesterday I saw one who had earnings but last contract ended in 2016, and without profile photo! Clearly someone who is long gone.

[atlinguist]

Sergio, 

I know, but I don't work that way. To keep my clients happy and meet their deadlines, I start translating as soon as I receive the text. Sending individual chapters before the whole book has been translated (and edited or proofread ba a colleague) makes no sense for me. 

Anyway, why isn't the cash deposited by my client cash in the bank for UW? 

[sergio-soria]

I understand. So I guess you use fixed-price option with only one long milestone. That's fine, the problem is that in your case the milestone takes more than 30 days, therefore Upwork take for granted that you are not earning.

Your client deposit the money but it remains in escrow until your client approves the milestone. It's not in your client's pocket, neither in Upwork pocket nor yours. Upon approval money is released and that's the moment when cash flow happens.

[elastella]

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Alexandra H wrote:

Sergio, 

I know, but I don't work that way. To keep my clients happy and meet their deadlines, I start translating as soon as I receive the text. Sending individual chapters before the whole book has been translated (and edited or proofread ba a colleague) makes no sense for me. 

Anyway, why isn't the cash deposited by my client cash in the bank for UW? 

---

I am exactly the same. I NEVER deliver in batches or chapters when dealing with large documents - I'll do a rough translation of the entire file and then start editing and fine-tuning the whole thing until I'm happy with the output. It takes time to familiarise oneself with the subject matter, terminology, the author's voice etc. Hence, there's usually just 1, occasionally 2 milestones with the first (rough draft) amounting to 85% of the overall budget. Works for me.

[atlinguist]

STOP PRESS! 

Update: I have just been switched back to "public". ... Quickly ... painlessly ... by a human being (!)

Thanks, everybody! And thank you, UW. (Still the best.)