Extreme Prejudice of Diversity Badge Exclusion

[#1]

The idea of the Diversity Badge is a good one; clients have the opportunity to choose someone of a specific race, gender, nationality, culture. But why does this badge eliminate Whites and Males? Diversity is NOT about minorities. It's about diversity and should include all types of people. The groups list is non-inclusive to some races and genders. Why? This is beyond prejudice; it's insulting to the people who are not included and should be remedied immediately. Again, the diversity badge should not be about minorities, but the power of the client to find and choose a person within a certain group, not just minority groups.

Groups to include:

White

Male

Native American

Pacific Islander

Asian

Biracial

The category of "Other" should allow someone to type in what that "Other" is. 

[#2]

I would agree with you, but there is a clear and apparent discrepency in earnings on this website, if you compare even the two of us, you have earnings over 100k whereas I have $300 and we have submitted a similar number of proposals. I think these things are unfair, but maybe the diversity badge isn't the way to go. I think a proposed structure of reducing the % fee for minorities and increasing it for high earners should be the way to go.

[#3]

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Abish P wrote:

I would agree with you, but there is a clear and apparent discrepency in earnings on this website, if you compare even the two of us, you have earnings over 100k whereas I have $300 and we have submitted a similar number of proposals. I think these things are unfair, but maybe the diversity badge isn't the way to go. I think a proposed structure of reducing the % fee for minorities and increasing it for high earners should be the way to go.

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How do you know she has submitted the same number of proposals? 

As for the other suggestions, I prefer we are all treated the same. Just like the JSS calculation is the same for everybody. 

[#4]

Awards are based on merit. I've been doing this for 10+ years and have honed my skills and my presentation bid to the point where maybe it's just more attractive to clients. I lose A LOT of jobs to others. Is it because I'm a woman? Is it because I charge more than someone else might? Or is it because of all the factors a client is looking for? I don't know. But if it's based on race, gender, minority status, or whatever, let's just include everyone. If someone is looking for a veteran-owned business, I don't qualify for that. It leaves me out totally. If someone wants to support a Native American-owned business, I don't qualify. I've paid my dues and should not be DISQUALIFIED just because I'm White. That's racist.

[#5]

I had a quick look at your profile. Your skills are extreme and you should be charging more money. Don't be afraid to charge more. You may get fewer jobs, but they'll pay more money. Don't sell yourself short. IMO, your background should be enough to get you more work. 

[#6]

Abish, have you been on UW only since September?

There's also the possibility that there are more jobs for what I do, line and copy editing. Yours is a more specific field. And because of that, you can charge more. You've got a Masters for heaven sake. Use it. 

[#7]

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Abish P wrote:

I would agree with you, but there is a clear and apparent discrepency in earnings on this website, if you compare even the two of us, you have earnings over 100k whereas I have $300 and we have submitted a similar number of proposals. I think these things are unfair, but maybe the diversity badge isn't the way to go. I think a proposed structure of reducing the % fee for minorities and increasing it for high earners should be the way to go.

---

You think she should cough up MORE than the $20k she's paid to Upwork in fees? I think I'd tend to lean the other way...freelancers who have made more than 100k on the platform should not pay more than 10% on any project.

[#8]

Do you have any evidence to suggest that white males are being discriminated against on Upwork?

[#9]

I don't know that anyone is being discriminated against. That's not the point. The point is that everyone should be included in the diversity list, not just minorities. Minorities can be found there if someone prefers a minority. but someone should also be able to choose among all types of people, not solely minorities. That's what diversity is.

[#10]

I have to say I am amazed why so many people so happily take this anti-discrimination cruise and seem not to bother much about how the destination point looks like. 

I can understand that there may be some gov programs that give companies some bonuses by working with any specific freelancer who is certified as XYZ. If that's the purpose of any kind of "badge", then I'm fine with it. I may question the reasoning behind such gov programs, but that's got nothing to do with UW - if the business wants to have a chance to hire some specific individuals, then I'm fine with any kind of badges that might help them out to achieve this. It'll be just another way of discriminating, no better or worse than the ways we already know.  

But...if anyone here really thinks such badges help in fighting off discrimination, then...wow! Seriously?

Everybody is discriminating against everybody every day, on every occasion. Every choice we make is discrimination. Based on 1.000.000 things that differentiate each one of us from the others. Let's deal with it and move on.

If anyone seriously wants to achieve some weird kind of "equality" here, there are a few steps that should be taken on UW to start with:

- no images of freelancers

- no names shown (give us numbers, randomly assigned)

- no location shown

So, when do we start with these changes? Cos if we don't, then I suggest stopping all this bs. 

Just my $0.02

[#11]

Piotr, good talk. You're absolutely right. Remove anything that might suggest anything about anyone and clients can choose freelancers based on their presentation, not their country of origin, race, gender, or beauty. I can be AI for all the client knows, but the proof of my talent will be in my presentation, particularly because I'm in the Writing category. I get to actually show my skills to a small degree each time I bid on a job. It just works out that way.

[#12]

It's a diversity badge not a dating website preference filter.

[#13]

What are you trying to say?

[#14]

What are you trying to say? That it's good the way it is?

[#15]

Just to make my point clear and easy to grasp (in case anybody cares 🙂 ) :

There are 2 ways to go:

1. "Bumper sticker bomb" 

A freelancer is allowed to do a beauty contest show - shout about being a minority, an alien, an octopus, a WASP, whatever he/she wants to. Let us have all kinds of badges we want to have (or the business would like us to have) and proudly present them on our profiles, in our proposals, and God-knows-where-else. Or not use any of them and just stay with what we have. And don't bother if it influences any clients' decisions. 

2. "Total Equality Paradigm"

No info. No photo. No location, No bio. No proposal written in any personal way (just a box-ticking form to submit). 

No. 2 is an inhuman, plain crazy, and absolutely weird thing to do.  In my opinion, of course 🙂 

[#16]

Hey Piotr,

Your original post was quite clear and a great solution. No identifying factors. Just like "The Voice". Incognito so singers can't be judged on any visual traits.

[#17]

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Lee C wrote:

Hey Piotr,

Your original post was quite clear and a great solution. No identifying factors. Just like "The Voice". Incognito so singers can't be judged on any visual traits.

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Then I'm a lousy writer cos my intentions are different - no, anonymity is a WRONG way to go. It will never work because it is AGAINST human nature. We choose people we want to work with, not machines we want to rent and set up running. Because we are not machines ourselves. At the end of the day, you will always, as a client, find yourself with a pile of proposals sent by people of equal skills and competencies, charging similar rates. Whom are you gonna choose? On what basis? Here comes the human part. I am against "The Voice" concept - it will eventually make us all machines and kill any human elements we still have.  

[#18]

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Piotr O wrote:

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Lee C wrote:

Hey Piotr,

Your original post was quite clear and a great solution. No identifying factors. Just like "The Voice". Incognito so singers can't be judged on any visual traits.

---

Then I'm a lousy writer cos my intentions are different - no, anonymity is a WRONG way to go. It will never work because it is AGAINST human nature. We choose people we want to work with, not machines we want to rent and set up running. Because we are not machines ourselves. At the end of the day, you will always, as a client, find yourself with a pile of proposals sent by people of equal skills and competencies, charging similar rates. Whom are you gonna choose? On what basis? Here comes the human part. I am against "The Voice" concept - it will eventually make us all machines and kill any human elements we still have.  

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Right. It would doom the platform to leave out pictures and personal information such as education or work experience. Why? Because it's all about the human connection. A client wants to know who he is dealing with. It's simply human nature. 

[#19]

Clients choose whomever they want, for a variety of reasons. It's mostly on merit, i.e. good qualifactions and impressive job history. But many people get along better with people from their own cultural background, and hire accordingly. The less Upwork interferes with their choices, the better.

[#20]

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Lee C wrote:

The idea of the Diversity Badge is a good one; clients have the opportunity to choose someone of a specific race, gender, nationality, culture. But why does this badge eliminate Whites and Males? Diversity is NOT about minorities. It's about diversity and should include all types of people. The groups list is non-inclusive to some races and genders. Why? This is beyond prejudice; it's insulting to the people who are not included and should be remedied immediately. Again, the diversity badge should not be about minorities, but the power of the client to find and choose a person within a certain group, not just minority groups.

Groups to include:

White

Male

Native American

Pacific Islander

Asian

Biracial

The category of "Other" should allow someone to type in what that "Other" is. 

---

You misunderstand the program. UW is not certifying anyone as representing any aspect of diversity. UW is just making it possible for FLs who obtain certification from various third-party agencies as diverse businesses or suppliers to display that certification as part of their profile. UW has nothing to do with those agencies or the eligibility criteria they use in their certifications. 

UW instituted this program in response to requests from clients that have diversity targets in contracting. 

[#21]

That's awesome. But they excluded several categories.

[#22]

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Lee C wrote:
That's awesome. But they excluded several categories.

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Yes, they excluded some categories. For example, hiring more white males won't make your business more diverse. If everybody is eligible for a diversity badge, then what would be the point, exactly?

In any case, the program is only open to Americans, who are being hired by American clients, probably using the US-only marketplace. Maybe you should rail against that, since you're so interested in fairness.

[#23]

I have a better idea. I don't know who you are, but there's no need to be nasty or snarky. If you have something to say on the issue, you should just make a comment instead of attacking another freelancer's opinion.

[#24]

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Lee C wrote:
That's awesome. But they excluded several categories.

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1. Please use the quote function so it's clear which comment you're responding to. (Otherwise, the thread eventually becomes chaotic and annoying to people reading later.)

2. Pretty sure their list is based on available certificates. If you know of others that exist but are not represented, I'm sure UW would welcome the information.

[#25]

Thanks, Phyllis. I think I'll just stay away from the community. This is my first time posting, and like all forums, it's turned out to be just a time waster. I do appreciate your explanation of the program.