Extreme Prejudice of Diversity Badge Exclusion

[#1]

The idea of the Diversity Badge is a good one; clients have the opportunity to choose someone of a specific race, gender, nationality, culture. But why does this badge eliminate Whites and Males? Diversity is NOT about minorities. It's about diversity and should include all types of people. The groups list is non-inclusive to some races and genders. Why? This is beyond prejudice; it's insulting to the people who are not included and should be remedied immediately. Again, the diversity badge should not be about minorities, but the power of the client to find and choose a person within a certain group, not just minority groups.

Groups to include:

White

Male

Native American

Pacific Islander

Asian

Biracial

The category of "Other" should allow someone to type in what that "Other" is. 

[#2]

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Lee C wrote:

This is my first time posting, and like all forums, it's turned out to be just a time waster. 

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C'mon, Lee...first time posting with 39 posts on the clock? 😉 Quite a repetitive "first night" 🙂

[#3]

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Piotr O wrote:

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Lee C wrote:

This is my first time posting, and like all forums, it's turned out to be just a time waster. 

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C'mon, Lee...first time posting with 39 posts on the clock? 😉 Quite a repetitive "first night" 🙂

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Perhaps she has forgotten that she joined the forum in 2015 and has posted multiple times between then and now? 

[#4]

Wow -- great discussion here. I'm impressed by Lee C bringing this up. 

No -- I don't think there's an answer here. If the intent of the diversity badge is to make it easier for clients seeking to hire members of a minority, then I supposed that's their right and good for Upwork to help them out. On the other hand, if the intent is to make Upwork fair to all, then, sure, present a system that allows everyone to participate. 

It is also clear that a system in which no personal information is presented -- like the television program The Voice -- has a lot to be said for it. However, yes, I agree that clients looking for someone to hire on Upwork often -- I would think a vast majority, in fact -- require some evidence of a human connection being made. We're not bots. We're humanoids. So, that's a second question with two conflicting answers to it.

Lee C. Thanks for bringing this up. I think you're right -- if the intent is to be fair to everyone, whites should be included. But your argument is moot if the intent is to help those specifically seeking minority-representing workers. So, what's the beef? They weren't going to hire you, anyway. 

(And, by the way, Lee C. you are an absolute workhorse. An enviable track record you've got there.)

[#5]

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Anthony H wrote:

Wow -- great discussion here. I'm impressed by Lee C bringing this up. 

No -- I don't think there's an answer here. If the intent of the diversity badge is to make it easier for clients seeking to hire members of a minority, then I supposed that's their right and good for Upwork to help them out. On the other hand, if the intent is to make Upwork fair to all, then, sure, present a system that allows everyone to participate. 

It is also clear that a system in which no personal information is presented -- like the television program The Voice -- has a lot to be said for it. However, yes, I agree that clients looking for someone to hire on Upwork often -- I would think a vast majority, in fact -- require some evidence of a human connection being made. We're not bots. We're humanoids. So, that's a second question with two conflicting answers to it.

Lee C. Thanks for bringing this up. I think you're right -- if the intent is to be fair to everyone, whites should be included. But your argument is moot if the intent is to help those specifically seeking minority-representing workers. So, what's the beef? They weren't going to hire you, anyway. 

(And, by the way, Lee C. you are an absolute workhorse. An enviable track record you've got there.)

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White people are eligible for diversity badges, just not based on their race. Since white or caucasian is a race, if your ethnicity is Latinx/Hispanic, you are eligible. If you are disabled and white, you are eligible. If you are a woman and white, you are eligible. You're white and gay/lesbian, you are eligible. You are just not eligible if you are a CIS, white, abled, male. 

[#6]

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Lee C wrote:

Thanks, Phyllis. I think I'll just stay away from the community. This is my first time posting, and like all forums, it's turned out to be just a time waster. I do appreciate your explanation of the program.

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Well, in case you decide to "post for the first time" again, it would be nice to use QUOTE as you have already been told.
In case you don't know how, I also needed an explanation when I started here, I leave instructions:

[#7]

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Lee C wrote:

Thanks, Phyllis. I think I'll just stay away from the community. This is my first time posting, and like all forums, it's turned out to be just a time waster. I do appreciate your explanation of the program.

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In my experience the quality of any online community depends on how one chooses to participate, i.e., you get out what you put into it. 

[#8]

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Lee C wrote:

The idea of the Diversity Badge is a good one; clients have the opportunity to choose someone of a specific race, gender, nationality, culture. But why does this badge eliminate Whites and Males? Diversity is NOT about minorities. It's about diversity and should include all types of people. The groups list is non-inclusive to some races and genders. Why? This is beyond prejudice; it's insulting to the people who are not included and should be remedied immediately. Again, the diversity badge should not be about minorities, but the power of the client to find and choose a person within a certain group, not just minority groups.

Groups to include:

White

Male

Native American

Pacific Islander

Asian

Biracial

The category of "Other" should allow someone to type in what that "Other" is. 

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I don't think this is correct. Diversity is not one's right to pick any option, which one still has. Diversity is the variety of expressions of a feature. If there are fewer expressions, the diversity is reduced.

This necessarily means that an individual belonging to a mintority is more valuable, in terms of diversity, because it represents its group in a higher percentage than an individual belonging to a majority. This can be said about the different color skin and gender among hired people but also about the different plant species in your garden.

That is simply because, if a few individuals in a minority are removed from the system, their group may drop off and the diversity of the system will decrease. If a few individuals in a majority are removed, their group is still a majority and the diversity stays the same.

So, the diversity index is stronger and healthier when the whole system is healthy and there is little difference between minorities and majorities. It is stronger because there is no group that would pose a threat to diversity if some of their members were removed.

That is why, favoring or increasing the members of a majority not only is not favoring diversity but it slightly increases the difference between majority and minorities, thus slightly weakening the diversity and, if done enough times, eventually reducing it.

Saying that hiring a white male is killing diversity is an over-dramatization, of course. It is not the case, but I suspect it does not help diversity in the USA marketplace and, if anything, it plays against it.

So, I can see how a "white male" filter can be useful in some cases, but it could be in a different section. In my opinion, the "diversity filters" section is the one place where this filter does not fit.

[#9]

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Lee C wrote:

The idea of the Diversity Badge is a good one; clients have the opportunity to choose someone of a specific race, gender, nationality, culture. But why does this badge eliminate Whites and Males?

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I find it sketchy because to obtain such certifications one may have to pay fees, undergo verifications, which may actually remove from the program the most vulnerable or unfortunate within a minority group.

Race or gender based discrimination is unlawful under U.S. federal and state civil rights laws, including white people. Apparently the only exception might be if a company has an affirmative action plan. I presume Upwork grants access to gender-race based search filters only after verifying that the company has an affirmative action plan, in accordance with whatever regulations there are.

[#10]

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Claudia Z wrote:

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Lee C wrote:

The idea of the Diversity Badge is a good one; clients have the opportunity to choose someone of a specific race, gender, nationality, culture. But why does this badge eliminate Whites and Males?

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I find it sketchy because to obtain such certifications one may have to pay fees, undergo verifications, which may actually remove from the program the most vulnerable or unfortunate within a minority group.

Race or gender based discrimination is unlawful under U.S. federal and state civil rights laws, including white people. Apparently the only exception might be if a company has an affirmative action plan. I presume Upwork grants access to gender-race based search filters only after verifying that the company has an affirmative action plan, in accordance with whatever regulations there are.

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Except it's more complicated than saying "race or gender-based discrimination is unlawful". First of all, it's not unlawful simply to discriminate. Any person can discriminate however they want. It becomes unlawful when it's in conjunction with things like hiring practices, housing practices, and other situations. Yes, the EEOA cover white people too, but that does not mean that diversity certifications, as offered by the Small Business Administration (which is a branch of the US government) or other entities are discriminating because they do not offer a White/Abled/Male/Hetersexual business certification. 

However, the EEOA covers HIRING practices related to EMPLOYMENT. They generally do not cover practices related to contracting with independent contractors. Additionally, certain industries are exempt for a variety of reasons, for example, hiring actors or models. Additionally, employers must actually employ a minimum number of individiuals for these laws to even apply. 

[#11]

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Amanda L wrote:

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Except it's more complicated than saying "race or gender-based discrimination is unlawful".

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Ofcourse it's more complex than that but it can be extended to the point that a company can be liable for discrimination by an independent contractor.

As I said, I presume Upwork grants access to gender-race/whatever based search filters only after verifying that the company has an affirmative action plan, in accordance with whatever regulations there are. It's not meant to be an instrument accessible to the general audience.

"To start, this certification will only show to Enterprise and Business clients as we monitor the impact. These clients have indicated they are most interested in seeking out diverse businesses and often have diversity and inclusion initiatives as part of their hiring practices."

[#12]

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Claudia Z wrote:

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Amanda L wrote:

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Except it's more complicated than saying "race or gender-based discrimination is unlawful".

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Ofcourse it's more complex than that but it can be extended to the point that a company can be liable for discrimination by an independent contractor. - No, they can't. That's my whole point. Did you read my post or the links to the actual laws? 

As I said, I presume Upwork grants access to gender-race/whatever based search filters only after verifying that the company has an affirmative action plan, in accordance with whatever regulations there are. It's not meant to be an instrument accessible to the general audience.

"To start, this certification will only show to Enterprise and Business clients as we monitor the impact. These clients have indicated they are most interested in seeking out diverse businesses and often have diversity and inclusion initiatives as part of their hiring practices."

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Upwork likely does no such thing because as I said the law is much more complex than that. It does NOT apply to hiring independent contractors, so, no, they don't need an affirmative action plan in place. ALSO, those plans are requirements for businesses with 50 or more employees who have federal contrac... Upwork is not going to verify whose business has a certain number of employees and who has federal contracts any more than they will verify that people pay their taxes. 

In terms of liability, that would be the company who is liable, not Upwork. The company is responsible for knowing what their hiring practices may allow under the law. Upwork provides a variety of tools and filters, but it is not their job to monitor each company's statistics and demographics. Nor would we want them to since it would cost a lot of money and make hiring a lot harder, which would impact us as freelancers. 

Regardless, affirmative action plans do not include plans to figure out how to hire more white people. 

"For federal contractors and subcontractors, affirmative action must be taken by covered employers to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, persons with disabilities, and covered veterans." 

[#13]

This week many news organizations are reporting on this newly released study:

https://www.intelligent.com/34-of-white-college-students-lied-about-their-race-to-improve-chances-of...

[#14]

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/ofccp/faqs/general-aaps

U.S. Department of Labor:

May an employer override an individual’s self-identification of race, gender or ethnicity based on the employer’s visual observation?

No. OFCCP’s policy is that deference should be given to an individual’s self-identification and it should not be questioned or overridden by an employer based on the employer’s visual observation.

...a contractor may not ask applicants or employees for documentation to prove their gender identity or transgender status...

Self-identification is the most reliable method and preferred method for compiling information about a person’s gender, race and ethnicity. Contractors are strongly encouraged to rely on employee self-identification to obtain this information.

[#15]

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Preston H wrote:

This week many news organizations are reporting on this newly released study:

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Chances are that some of those who "lied" might be native-american or african-american descendants. The truth is somewhere in between. 

[#16]

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Preston H wrote:

This week many news organizations are reporting on this newly released study:

https://www.intelligent.com/34-of-white-college-students-lied-about-their-race-to-improve-chances-of...

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This factoid, of course, along with any and all references to U.S. employment law, has nothing whatsoever to do with the extensive and potentially expensive process of getting certified for the relevant contractor setaside programs—and consequently and indirectly, Upwork's badge.

In my case, getting certified as an LGBTQ+ provider would cost roughly three times a normal month's operating expenses, over and above the time investment required.

[#17]

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Amanda L wrote:

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Claudia Z wrote:

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Amanda L wrote:

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Except it's more complicated than saying "race or gender-based discrimination is unlawful".

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Ofcourse it's more complex than that but it can be extended to the point that a company can be liable for discrimination by an independent contractor. - No, they can't. That's my whole point. Did you read my post or the links to the actual laws? 

As I said, I presume Upwork grants access to gender-race/whatever based search filters only after verifying that the company has an affirmative action plan, in accordance with whatever regulations there are. It's not meant to be an instrument accessible to the general audience.

"To start, this certification will only show to Enterprise and Business clients as we monitor the impact. These clients have indicated they are most interested in seeking out diverse businesses and often have diversity and inclusion initiatives as part of their hiring practices."

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Upwork likely does no such thing because as I said the law is much more complex than that. It does NOT apply to hiring independent contractors, so, no, they don't need an affirmative action plan in place.

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I did not question if Upwork does such thing, I presume they already do it because it's available to Enterprise clients which may employ freelancers under Payroll Services. 

The point I'm trying to make is that it's something related to U.S. regulations, ie affirmative action or whatever.

Someone outside the U.S. or someone not aware of the affirmative action may have difficulties to understand the diversity badges, and their role.

[#18]

Claudia Z wrote:

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Amanda L wrote:

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Claudia Z wrote:

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Amanda L wrote:

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Except it's more complicated than saying "race or gender-based discrimination is unlawful".

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Ofcourse it's more complex than that but it can be extended to the point that a company can be liable for discrimination by an independent contractor. - No, they can't. That's my whole point. Did you read my post or the links to the actual laws? 

As I said, I presume Upwork grants access to gender-race/whatever based search filters only after verifying that the company has an affirmative action plan, in accordance with whatever regulations there are. It's not meant to be an instrument accessible to the general audience.

"To start, this certification will only show to Enterprise and Business clients as we monitor the impact. These clients have indicated they are most interested in seeking out diverse businesses and often have diversity and inclusion initiatives as part of their hiring practices."

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Upwork likely does no such thing because as I said the law is much more complex than that. It does NOT apply to hiring independent contractors, so, no, they don't need an affirmative action plan in place.

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I did not question if Upwork does such thing, I presume they already do it because it's available to Enterprise clients which may employ freelancers under Payroll Services. 

The point I'm trying to make is that it's something related to U.S. regulations, ie affirmative action or whatever.

Someone outside the U.S. or someone not aware of the affirmative action may have difficulties to understand the diversity badges, and their role.

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LOL, yes, but in this case, the OP is from the US, and doesn't understand the regulations. 

[#19]

Hi All,

Thanks for the discussion about the Diversity-Certified Badge as well as for sharing your thoughts and suggestions.

I'd like to clarify that Upwork doesn’t award these certifications, however we provide the Diversity-Certified Badge if a freelancer has earned certification from an outside group and added it to their profile. We do have clients with diversity- and inclusion-initiatives who want to support underrepresented groups (i.e. women-owned, minority-owned, LGBTQ-owned, disability-owned, and veteran-owned businesses). Business-level diversity certifications allow diverse talent to be showcased to our largest (Enterprise) clients.

Some of you have shared concerns that these certifications are currently only available for talent based in the U.S. While the guidelines for diversity certifications are clearly defined for U.S. businesses by the Billion Dollar Roundtable, they are not as clearly defined in every country. We are actively pursuing partnerships to broaden our geographic reach, but have found that diversity certification is much more prevalent in English-speaking countries like the U.K., Canada and Australia. We will keep working though, so stay tuned!
We are also looking at providing more resources on how to get certified and creating networking opportunities within these communities.

[#20]

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Valeria K wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for the discussion about the Diversity-Certified Badge as well as for sharing your thoughts and suggestions.

I'd like to clarify that Upwork doesn’t award these certifications, however we provide the Diversity-Certified Badge if a freelancer has earned certification from an outside group and added it to their profile. We do have clients with diversity- and inclusion-initiatives who want to support underrepresented groups (i.e. women-owned, minority-owned, LGBTQ-owned, disability-owned, and veteran-owned businesses). Business-level diversity certifications allow diverse talent to be showcased to our largest (Enterprise) clients.

Some of you have shared concerns that these certifications are currently only available for talent based in the U.S. While the guidelines for diversity certifications are clearly defined for U.S. businesses by the Billion Dollar Roundtable, they are not as clearly defined in every country. We are actively pursuing partnerships to broaden our geographic reach, but have found that diversity certification is much more prevalent in English-speaking countries like the U.K., Canada and Australia. We will keep working though, so stay tuned!
We are also looking at providing more resources on how to get certified and creating networking opportunities within these communities.

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Thank you, Valeria. I think you brought in the key word here that the OP has missed. Diversity efforts are about increasing representation among under-represented groups, which are historically underrepresented due to a variety of reasons, including systemic and institutional racism, ableism, and sexism/misogyny.