dawnhamilton
Member

FALSE Client Feedback

I've just been informed by Upwork that they cannot edit or investigage the accuracy of client feedback.  This is entirely unacceptable.  With this type of policy in place, a dishonest client can put anything they want to into the feedback section, and the contractor has no recourse to have it removed.  I have a situation right now in which the client absolutely lied and said that I left the position without notice and without voicing any concerns.  I have the letter I sent to the person who hired me as proof that I neither left without notice nor left without voicing my concerns.  It is unbelievable that Upwork will allow false feedback to stand while they know that I have the letter to prove that I'm telling the truth and the client is not.  I've lost my 5-star contractor rating and my Top-Rated status over this.  I detest Upwork's system of stacking all the cards against the contractor.

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Dawn ( EDITED) looks like you might find a solution here. since you were top rated. Check out this link for a new announcement on Upwork  https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Announcing-New-Perks-and-Requirements-for-our-Top-Rate...

 

Just a little confused. You said the job you applied for was misrepresented and you were offered another role/job when you were hired. But it looks like you've done work for them. Did you do work that was in your field and then they offered you another job/role? Or did you do some of that "other" work and decide not to continue?

 

If you did work utilizing your skills and then were offered a different role, you could have told them that since it's a different position, to close the current contract, and open up a new contract. Feedback would have then been left for the original job. And you could have, when a new contract was offered, politely declined it with whatever message you wanted. or even accepting it but tripling your rates.

 

Other then that, I feel that your reply was appropriate. And I know that it doesn't help the situation now, but a few more jobs, and that one will scroll off sight and you're JSS score will rise again.  

 

 

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25 REPLIES 25
tlsanders
Member

This is the nature of online feedback. What do you think would happen if you contacted Yelp or Google Maps and told them that a customer review was a lie?

You're talking about something completely different such as restaurant and business reviews.   Client feedback here at Upwork reviewing a contractor's work performance should be true, and if it's not, then it should be removed, especially when the contractor has irrefutable proof that the client is lying.  My feedback from this client shows that I quit without notice and without voicing my concerns.  I have the letter I sent to the company asking for the position that I was actually hired for.  It is THEY who said they didn't have that but wanted me to work in a different capacity. I did NOT quit without notice and without voicing concerns, and my letter proves that.  The position was entirely misrepresented to me, and now the feedback is false as well.  

yitwail
Member

Dawn,

 

That's dreadful, but there's one feature of Job Success calculation that *may* apply in your case, if not immediately, then eventually: "A client that repeatedly receives poor feedback from freelancers will be flagged, and their inputs omitted from your score." Of course, if the client goes away, then that's no help whatsoever, and for all I know, you gave the client good feedback.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Thanks, John.  I my case, my feedback from this client shows that I quit without notice and without voicing my concerns.  I have the letter I sent to the company asking for the position that I was actually hired for.  It is THEY who said they didn't have that but wanted me to work in a different capacity. I did NOT quit without notice and without voicing concerns, and my letter proves that.  The position was entirely misrepresented to me, and now the feedback is false as well.  I'm not sure my situation would fit into what you presented here, but thank you just the same for offering a possible solution and for being kind. 


@John K wrote:

Dawn,

 

That's dreadful, but there's one feature of Job Success calculation that *may* apply in your case, if not immediately, then eventually: "A client that repeatedly receives poor feedback from freelancers will be flagged, and their inputs omitted from your score." Of course, if the client goes away, then that's no help whatsoever, and for all I know, you gave the client good feedback.


Many times you cannot know what type of person someone is until they close the contract. Like for example they'll praise yoir work and tell you everything is great. Then when you get that final feedback you see they were pretty disatisfied. They just didn't won't to tell you before closing the contract because then they would receive a bad feedback. So you have a bunch of dishonest clients with five stars and their freelancers who got less than five. That's way I don't leave some extra wordy comments anymore because it s*cks to say he gave you good instructions, and set a good deadline, when after you finish the job you see he had something totally different on mind, just unwilling to explain it better while contract was still open. 

____________
Don't correct my grammar!
csjarmitage
Member

I know that I've read here that Upwork will investigate and take action if the client has a history of abusing the feedback feature. In your case, unfortunately, it doesn't look like that's the case (at least from the front end).

Hm, when I go to the original job posting (from Dawn's profile) it says: "No feedback given" both for her and the client.

That's odd.

 

Dawn, you could still respond to the feedback in a professional way and explain your side of the story.

I still don't understand why the feedback doesn't show up in the client's history.

Hi, Ela,

 

Maybe it was removed!  Hopefully, that's the case.  I did the professional thing and contacted the client before notifying Upwork, so maybe they've done something about it.  I also replied to the feedback with the truth.

 

Thanks!

No, they don't have a history of abusing the feedback feature.  I really don't think the person who hired me is the one who typed the feedback, or it wouldn't have been a lie.  He seems like a stand-up guy.  They just need to get the person typing the feedback to make it accurate.  This feedback I received from them needs to be removed pronto because it's completely false.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

I am sorry to hear that you and the client didn't agree about the way your contract ended, Dawn. There are very few cases when Upwork team is allowed to remove or edit feedback because it violates Upwork Terms of Use.

 

At this point you can communicate with your client, work out any issues and see if they would be willing to change their feedback if you enable them to. Alternatively, you can reply to the feedback professionally and provide your perspective.

 

Here is more information about these options.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Hi, Valeria,

 

I already received this canned response from Upwork, but thank you for replying.  It's not a matter of disagreeing about the feedback.  It's a matter of the client putting entirely false information in the feedback.  Client feedback here at Upwork reviewing a contractor's work performance should be true, and if it's not, then it should be removed, especially when the contractor has irrefutable proof that the client is lying.  My feedback from this client shows that I quit without notice and without voicing my concerns.  I have the letter I sent to the company asking for the position that I was actually hired for.  It is THEY who said they didn't have that but wanted me to work in a different capacity. I did NOT quit without notice and without voicing concerns, and my letter proves that.  The position was entirely misrepresented to me, and now the feedback is false as well.  

Hi Dawn,

 

that feedback is most like not going away unless you communicate with the client(s) and manage to steer them towards changing it.

 

I get that you're on fire about this, but I don't think it's worth the energy. Your JSS will quickly go above 90 again with a couple of good contracts, and many clients who read the review will probably not read too much into it. Clients know that there are 2 sides to every story and that reviews can sometimes be unjustified or even irratic. A brief, calm and professional response from you should suffice.

Thanks, Sandra.  I appreciate your comments and that you get how fired up I am.  I just can't let a lie about my work performance stand.  I'll continue to pursue this with Upwork and the client both.  I'm going to get the false feedback removed because that's the right thing, and I can prove it without a shadow of a doubt.  Upwork only needs to look at my letter and the response to it from the client back on May 16, the day the contract ended - it proves that I'm telling the truth and that they are not.

 

 


@Dawn H wrote:

Thanks, Sandra.  I appreciate your comments and that you get how fired up I am.  I just can't let a lie about my work performance stand.  I'll continue to pursue this with Upwork and the client both.  I'm going to get the false feedback removed because that's the right thing, and I can prove it without a shadow of a doubt.  Upwork only needs to look at my letter and the response to it from the client back on May 16, the day the contract ended - it proves that I'm telling the truth and that they are not.

 

 


In the meantime, I would do what Sandra suggests, and before writing anything sleep on it; a rant will turn other clients away; a really reasoned justification won't. Also from what you wrote earlier, this was clearly bait and switch - they proposed one thing and then wanted you to do another. Bad client.

 

Good luck with it.



Thank you!  I appreciate your supportive words.  I did make a very professional, and firm, reply to their feedback which adamantly and clearly describes what happened.

 

 

 

In the meantime, I would do what Sandra suggests, and before writing anything sleep on it; a rant will turn other clients away; a really reasoned justification won't. Also from what you wrote earlier, this was clearly bait and switch - they proposed one thing and then wanted you to do another. Bad client.

 

Dawn ( EDITED) looks like you might find a solution here. since you were top rated. Check out this link for a new announcement on Upwork  https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Announcing-New-Perks-and-Requirements-for-our-Top-Rate...

 

Just a little confused. You said the job you applied for was misrepresented and you were offered another role/job when you were hired. But it looks like you've done work for them. Did you do work that was in your field and then they offered you another job/role? Or did you do some of that "other" work and decide not to continue?

 

If you did work utilizing your skills and then were offered a different role, you could have told them that since it's a different position, to close the current contract, and open up a new contract. Feedback would have then been left for the original job. And you could have, when a new contract was offered, politely declined it with whatever message you wanted. or even accepting it but tripling your rates.

 

Other then that, I feel that your reply was appropriate. And I know that it doesn't help the situation now, but a few more jobs, and that one will scroll off sight and you're JSS score will rise again.  

 

 

Thank you so much, Kathy T!  It looks like the new information was published about 9 hours ago, so it's hot off the press.  I've already inquired about exercising this: 

 

Removing a contract’s ratings to exercise more control over your Job Success score. As a Top Rated freelancer or agency, you can request to remove one job’s ratings from your account. The client’s public 5-star rating and comment (if any) will be hidden from your profile, and the contract will be excluded from your Job Success score.This perk can be exercised once every 10 jobs and at most once every 3 months.

I really appreciate your help!

 

Oh, and to answer your questions, I did not accept any position other than the one discussed during the interview.  Here's how everything unfolded:  During the first week of the job, I was put through a rigorous training period, and then at the beginning of the second week, it became apparent that I would not be allowed to work in the capacity for which I was hired, so I requested to be provided with the position we discussed at the outset.  I was told that they did not need me in that role, but they wanted someone who would learn all of the company's systems, and they ended the contract and disabled my company e-mail account immediately.  So, long story VERY long  : ), they're the ones who ended the contract suddenly, and now in their feedback, they claim that I left the position without notice and without voicing my concerns, both of which are  untrue.  I had written a very professional and respectful letter asking to be put into the position for which I was hired, and they're the ones who refused and ended the contract.  I have all of this in writing, and hopefully Upwork will either look at it and remove the feedback, or I'll be allowed to use the new "remove a contract's ratings to exercise more control over your Job Success score" as noted above in the information you found.  Great detective work!

 

Dawn

mthornton-cpc
Member

Echoing what our fellow freelancers have said previously - client sounds like a bad apple. They happen to all of us at one time or another (or several). Same sort of horror stories exist in face-to-face client/freelancer relationships, unfortunately. Best to respond to the feedback professionally so that your side is represented on your profile. 

 

One quick thing about ease of communication here in the community: the Quote feature is your friend. If you click it after you hit Reply then it populates the comment of the person you're responding to in your comment box. It makes following the conversation smooth as fresh jar of Skippy. 

Thanks so much, Melissa T!  That's a very helpful thing to know!  Fortunately, I've not had to come here to voice a problem very often, so I didn't know about the "quote" feature!  I thought hitting "reply" would be enough!  : )

I know you're upset about this Dawn, and if you want to continue to pursue it with Upwork that's up to you. But I'd recommend editing your response to the feedback. As a client reading it, it makes it sound like a huge drama. The rest of your feedback is really good, but this one stands out because your response is so long. Maybe edit it down to something like:

 

"This client hired me for a project manager role and instead put me in a technical role. I advised the client that I would prefer to work in the role for which I was hired. When they replied that they had no need for me in that role, I ended the relationship with this client."

 

This makes it much shorter so it doesn't stick out so much, while factually and professionally distilling the key facts of what happened.

agus2104
Member

Hi, i found a client that testing me and interview me, but after 2 weeks he has no response, i found him on line last week, but nothing to do on my test result.

Until now, my test result has no answer.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Hi Agus,

 

It doesn't look like you have an active contract with the client you are referring to. Please, always make sure you have a contract in place before you do and submit any work in order to be paid.

~ Valeria
Upwork
lisawerk
Member

This is one of the major flaws in Upwork's feedback system. If you're going to act as a moderator between clients and contractors, then you have an obligation to ensure that the information you're moderating is, in fact, accurate.

 

It would be fine if we could all just give feedback and there would be little to no consequences other than the fact that the feedback was visible. In this case, by providing little to no accountability for the accuracy of the feedback, and then using that unverified feedback to judge a contractor (and link it to the JSS), Upwork is doing all contractors a disservice.

 

The JSS algorithm acts as if feedback is true without Upwork doing any work to actually determine if it's true. Even if it's blatantly false and the contractor has proof of that fact, Upwork will rarely do anything to address the discrepancy.

 

And I say all this as someone who has never had bad feedback (knock knock).

 


@Lisa W wrote:

The JSS algorithm acts as if feedback is true without Upwork doing any work to actually determine if it's true. Even if it's blatantly false and the contractor has proof of that fact, Upwork will rarely do anything to address the discrepancy.


 How much would you be prepared to pay to have feedback researched, mediated and adjudicated? The roughly

$ 870 it would cost for independent arbitration?

 

There is a good reason why no commercial site that has a feedback system gets involved in "this feedback was not fair" or "this feedback is factually incorrect" dispute types except in some very clarly defined edge cases.

 

Look at eBay, look at Amazon (both of which have a JSS-like private feedback type system as well, by the way - On ebay if a seller's DSR (detailed seller rating) falls below 4.7 - equivalent of a JSS of 94% - the seller account is in danger)  Neither allows for feedback removal unless much the same criteria are met.

 

 


@Petra R wrote:

 


 How much would you be prepared to pay to have feedback researched, mediated and adjudicated? The roughly

$ 870 it would cost for independent arbitration?

 

There is a good reason why no commercial site that has a feedback system gets involved in "this feedback was not fair" or "this feedback is factually incorrect" dispute types except in some very clarly defined edge cases.

 

Look at eBay, look at Amazon (both of which have a JSS-like private feedback type system as well, by the way - On ebay if a seller's DSR (detailed seller rating) falls below 4.7 - equivalent of a JSS of 94% - the seller account is in danger)  Neither allows for feedback removal unless much the same criteria are met.

 

 


I don't disagree with your overall point, although I don't really think eBay and Amazon are a close enough comparison. My main point is that Upwork is essentially saying, "It's too much trouble to do it right, so we're going to do it halfway and let you pay the consequences." I'd rather they not do it unless they can do it right. We're held accountable for every single thing we do towards Upwork and towards our clients, it's just a bit frustrating to be so affected by something that could potentially harm me through no fault of my own.

 

Overall, I'm happy with Upwork and I think they've made a lot of improvements recently that I'm happy about. I just still feel like the feedback system needs a lot of work. The lack of clarity about exactly how it's calculated (and I don't buy the 'manipulation' argument) and the fact that support doesn't really know how to explain it when there are problems...it just needs work to really be an honest and clear assessment of true job success.