FREELANCER DOESN'T MEAN POPLE WORKS FOR FREE

[dacash11]

Imagine to have the chance to finally shows all the world and cleints around how capable you are in you work expertise, how good are you on logo design while still amke the difference working on excel at the same time, Imagine how incredible is create a workers' network around the world without spending fortune for meetings , appointmens, hotels.

This is great as long it worth it. As long you open your eyes.

I have just updated my profile to a PLUS one, it just make more sense isnt?

Well it definetely make sense, but this is not the argument of my topic.

I don't know how many mistakes humanity still have to make before learning, finally, from them:

YOU JUST CANT OFFER 5$ph FOR A JOB THAT NEEDS TECHNICAL SKILLS FOR ABOUT 25$/30$.

This is not fair for people that work for a living. There must be a limit to this kind of deprezation of skills, we should stop this criminal attempt against our brain because someone else, obviusly living in an emerging cauntry can sells himself for far less and still living good.

UpWork. GIVE EVERYBODY AN EXAMPLE OF REGULATED ECOLOGICAL MARKET.

THANKS.

[robin_hyman]

Ciro,

This has been a discussion topic many times in the forum.  It is very expensive to live in your native country, Italy.  But, it is much less expensive to live in other areas of the world.  You continue working on projects paying your minimum and let others who live in those developing countries work at their minimum.  

Robin

[dacash11]

That's your opinion, not mine.

The world is connected 360 degree 24/7 24h a day. You can't IGNORE the fact that economy doesn t not regulate itself: workers must be protected from low wage. That's a win for everybody, especially for those poor country that can develop faster with more capital in their pocket.

That's a fact, More money -->  more spending ---->  more economic development.

[petra_r]

Ciro, you're an adult and as a freelancer you are not "a worker" - you run an independant business. If you go to the local mercato, you don't find that the sellers are protected and can only sell their wares over a certain price either. It's supply and demand and salesmanship and business sense.

It's your job to set your price and negotiate your rates and to sell your services at those prices and rates.

If you need protecting from clients and budgets and not able to sell your services effectively and profitably, then you're not yet ready to freelance.

Ciro F wrote:

are you trying to say that freelancer doeasnt have rights or they establish their right on their own? I dont understand. sorry.

---

You establish and negotiate your own conditions, prices and rates. Nothing to do with Upwork.

[dacash11]

Again, this is not the point of the discussion. It's ok to have different point of view, but i believe we Freelencer should protect ourself from market sharks that prefer delocalize your activities for chep prices. it's history, it's writtenin all Economics' books. Just that.

Thank you.

[prestonhunter]

Upwork is very clear that clients are not allowed to ask freelancers to work for free.

If clients are getting away with asking freelancers to work for free, then it is the fault of the freelancers who are using Upwork improperly. My personal opinion is that freelancers should be suspended (but I don't think Upwork is going to do that).

Clients who ask freelancers to work for free CAN have their accounts suspended or otherwise sanctioned.

Also: If you see a job posted for a rate that is not appropriate for you based on the work that you do and your skill level, then I would encourage you to not apply to the job. Or, if you apply to the job, please make sure that you ONLY accept contracts that pay enough for you.

You already know that you don't have a right to block other people (including people less skilled than yourself) from obtaining work on the platform. I don't think you're trying to do that.

I'm sure that it is not your intention to prevent people in countries whose economic systems are different from your own - or people whose economic situations are different from your own - from being able to make choics that benefit themselves.

[jr-translation]

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Ciro F wrote:

Imagine to have the chance to finally shows all the world and cleints around how capable you are in you work expertise, how good are you on logo design while still amke the difference working on excel at the same time, Imagine how incredible is create a workers' network around the world without spending fortune for meetings , appointmens, hotels.

This is great as long it worth it. As long you open your eyes.

I have just updated my profile to a PLUS one, it just make more sense isnt?

Well it definetely make sense, but this is not the argument of my topic.

I don't know how many mistakes humanity still have to make before learning, finally, from them:

YOU JUST CANT OFFER 5$ph FOR A JOB THAT NEEDS TECHNICAL SKILLS FOR ABOUT 25$/30$.

This is not fair for people that work for a living. There must be a limit to this kind of deprezation of skills, we should stop this criminal attempt against our brain because someone else, obviusly living in an emerging cauntry can sells himself for far less and still living good.

UpWork. GIVE EVERYBODY AN EXAMPLE OF REGULATED ECOLOGICAL MARKET.

THANKS.

---

Not sure why you are complaining about $5/h. The limit is 40% less.

[dacash11]

Well, if I work as data analyst I wil be shocked to see one of my "collegue" do it for less then 12$ per hour. Just that.

[feed_my_eyes]

As long as people are willing to work for $5/hour (or less), then these jobs are here to stay.

Also, I don't know why you think that having a Plus membership means that you'll earn more money or get better clients. It won't make any difference.

Logo design is a arguably the worst category because it's full of people who just steal designs from stock websites, type the client's name underneath, and call it a day. They're happy to get $10 for that (and the clients deserve what they get). If you have other skills or can offer a service that's more specialised, then you should do that instead.

[dacash11]

It was just an example related to a person that can wasily work in design and Data anslysis, like my case.

[prestonhunter]

Ciro:

I know that you want what is best for Upwork as a platform, for the freelancers and clients who use the site, and for yourself.

I can assure you that all of the regular Forum participants and all of the Forum moderators that I know of agree with you that Freelancing on Upwork does NOT mean working for free. Nobody here wants that to happen.

Other than that, is there a specific question that you have at this time? Or a specific recommendation that you would like to make?

[dacash11]

I just want to understand if Upwork cares about workers right, and in that case, if a group of freelencer can ask for Upwork to set up an authority that preserve freelencer work.

And most importanlty: what do you think about it: cause Sir, i have listened to your preocupation but I havent read your opinion about it.

In a polite discussion will be perfect.

[prestonhunter]

re: "I just want to understand if Upwork cares about workers' rights"

Yes. Upwork does.

Upwork has done more to enable freelancers all over the world than any organization I can think of. Who do you know of that is doing more than Upwork in this regard?

re: "Can a group of freelencers ask for Upwork to set up an authority that preserve freelencer work."

You do not represent a group of freelancers. You are just one person. As am I. But that is okay. Upwork does NOT require you to be backed up by a whole group. Upwork lets you - as an individual - ask questions or make requests or make suggestions. YOU, yourself, may do this.

re: "..."to set up an authority that preserve freelencer work."

What do you mean by this?

If you are asking if Upwork can set up an organization or department that reviews job postings and makes sure that they meet a certain standard, then the answer is:

You don't need this. YOU can establish an standards you want for yourself. You don't need to accept ANY job that doesn't meet your standards.

re: "I have listened to your preocupation but I haven't read your opinion about it."

I have written thousands of pages worth of postings in the Forum. Is there some specific question you would like to ask me?

[dacash11]

There is a problem of focus here: you are trynig to put the focus on the relationship between Upwork-client(buyer). that's a wrong point of view if your aim is to have an opinion on freelancer preservation. Especially in a world where smart working, agile and flexible working is quicly becoming a reality.

It's ok like this. we don t need to converge on something at all cost.

[petra_r]

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Ciro wrote:

There is a problem of focus here: you are trynig to put the focus on the relationship between Upwork-client(buyer). that's a wrong point of view.

---

No, it is not a wrong point of view. It's the point of view of a grown up professional who manages her own client relationships and negotiations. 

---

Ciro F wrote:

if your aim is to have an opinion on freelancer preservation.

---

Freelancer preservation? If freelancers need protecting from their clients, they are not ready to freelance.

Clients' budgets are negotiable. If you think what you offer is worth a hire price, negotiate a higher price.

If you can't do that effectively, no amount of "protection" will make you succeed.

---

Ciro wrote:

i believe we Freelencer should protect ourself from market sharks that prefer delocalize your activities for chep prices

---

YOU are free to protect yourself from such clients by not working with them.

Problem solved.

[dacash11]

Thank you. 

I don't think there is nothing constructive at all in what you are saying. 

I prefer we stop the discussion here. Bye

[versailles]

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Ciro F wrote:

I just want to understand if Upwork cares about workers right, 

---

Upwork is a platform that connects independent freelancers with buyers. That segment of Upwork's operations doesn't involve employees. While the platform has minimum rates, these are low and other than that, Upwork never interferes with how freelancers structure their own prices.

Workers rights applies to employees. They can unionize. Freelancers are not employees, they are independent business owners. It is their own responsibility to define their business model.

You definitely don't want Upwork to get involved in your own business decisions.

[dacash11]

are you trying to say that freelancer doeasnt have rights or they establish their right on their own? I dont understand. sorry.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Are you trying to say that the freelancer doesn't have rights, or they establish their rights on their own?"

Both.

Upwork has MANY rights for freelancers.

But also: Upwork lets you establish additional rights.

For example: Some freelancers do NOT use Skype or video or audio calls with clients. Ever.

Other freelancers ONLY work with clients with whom they can communicate via Skype.

Another topic is pay. Freelancers establish their own rates. Nobody - not Upwork and not clients - can force them to work on rates that are too low.

YOU can decide.

[dacash11]

Again, we are talking about people not machine. By the way it's clear that your opinion is that we can do whatever we want with our prices. We are, in fact, FREE of sell ourself for the cheapest price in the world. 

Uhm.. I just believe it's ridiculous negate that all of this doesn t affect negatively freelancer market.

 In a long term, in order to survive in the market a "normal" freelancer has to reduce his pay or you can't compete in a lower game (in fact a loooot of buyers ask often for emergent country workers - EUREKA).

Again, People need to understand what's going on.

[boshoffirene]

FREE>> is the operational word here. You are FREE to sell yourself cheaply is you want to. I don't want to. I do not sell myself cheaply. I am FREE to make that choice, and FREE to determine what I am willing to work for. And I am also FREE to chose to work for a client willing to pay more. I am FREE to make those choices because I run my OWN business. 

[dacash11]

There are no facts in what you are sayinf, please read all the thread. 

Thanks

[petra_r]

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Ciro F wrote:

By the way it's clear that your opinion is that we can do whatever we want with our prices. We are, in fact, FREE of sell ourself for the cheapest price in the world. 

---

You are indeed. You are also free to sell yourself at higher prices. Or really high prices.

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Ciro F wrote:

Again, People need to understand what's going on.

---

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

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Ciro F wrote:

 In a long term, in order to survive in the market a "normal" freelancer has to reduce his pay or you can't compete in a lower game 

Why would you want to "compete in the lower game?" Compete in the "higher game!"

Ignore bottom of the barrel clients, or convince them that you are worth paying more. If you are not capable of doing that, find better clients who are willing to pay more. It is not rocket science.

[kochubei_valeria]

Hi Ciro,

Sorry to hear you're not seeing the value you expect. As those projects may be of interest to other freelancers, please use filters while searching in order to exclude the ones that you’re not interested in. Also, keep in mind that 33% of jobs on Upwork are posted privately–clients fill these by searching for the key skills they need and invite freelancers who fit the bill to submit a proposal.
At Upwork, the terms of any contract, including the rate, are for clients and freelancers to decide upon together. Any freelancer who is not satisfied with the rate offered can negotiate a higher rate or find a project they consider to be more suitable.

All,

We appreciate the discussion. However, please make sure your posts remain professional and within the Community Guidelines even if you disagree with other members' opinions. Personal attacks based on a user's experience of Upwork platform or any other disparaging comments will not be tolerated. Several posts have been edited or removed from this thread already.

[dacash11]

thank you Valeria, I really appreciate your politeness.

I always refine filters and I have already completed 5 jobs. I am happy about the platform and I feel lucky to work in it.

I strive always for a better place to live. 

[lysis10]

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Ciro F wrote:

Imagine to have the chance to finally shows all the world and cleints around how capable you are in you work expertise, how good are you on logo design while still amke the difference working on excel at the same time, Imagine how incredible is create a workers' network around the world without spending fortune for meetings , appointmens, hotels.

---

Imagine being a boss and knowing how to make money without needing someone to force things on you and clients. 😎

[dacash11]

I know how does it feel. I worked on multiple platform before and I believe Upwork is the best one. I love it.

[boshoffirene]

"There are no facts in what you are sayinf, please read all the thread. 

Thanks"

Shakes head, looks out the window, watches a bird feed, and smiles.