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Favor the Freelancers More

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
21 of 41
re: "Why then are freelancers identified by country? I agree it is a global market and therefore no one should be identified by country."

When you hire a contractor, there is absolutely nothing in Upwork's up interface that requires you to include a contractor's country of residence as a factor in your decision making.

Likewise, there is nothing that requires you to include this as a factor when you choose jobs to apply for, or whose invitations to respond affirmatively to.

These things are left completely up to you as an individual.

Upwork IS a global marketplace. I personally don't hire contractors based on where they live and I assume my clients, who span the globe, didn't hire me based on where I live. But I would fight for people to retain the freedom to do so.
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Community Guru
Jean S Member Since: Oct 22, 2007
22 of 41

@Preston H wrote:

You seem to object to the fact that Upwork provides you with the freedom to filter clients based on their rates.


 If I filter jobs to show expert only, then my feed will no longer show any fixed priced jobs. That means I can only see hourly work and am missing a lot of good paying jobs that are fixed price.

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
23 of 41

re: "If I filter jobs to show expert only, then..."

 

I was using the word "filter" in a broader sense than you were, and I can see how that is confusing.

 

I would like to see Upworks' search functions work better and offer more options. But ultimately, regardless of what tools Upwork provides and how they operate, contractors have the final say in which jobs they apply to and which job invitations they accept.

 

That's what I was referring to.

 

Right now, we can choose to apply our own personal filters based on the rates the client offers.

 

But if Upwork enforced a specific rate for a specific type of project, then we no longer have the option to accept or reject those rates.

 

Every arbitrary value that has been suggested here as a minimum or maximum rate for any type of project might be something that many contractors would agree with, but which others would vehehmently object to because it would be taking away precisely the opportunities they are looking for.

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Ace Contributor
Jonathan P Member Since: Jun 28, 2015
24 of 41

Why wouldn't we be able to negoate? Is there going to be anyone who wants to lower the amount of money that they are getting paid for by a client? If anything it will allow for freelancers to sell the clients more services at better prices for them. If the base price that a client can ask for when it comes to a writing piece is say $10 and they want to add a few more of your serives to the contract or start up a different contract for the services, how does that cause freelancers to miss out? Do you normally talk down the price when you are doing the work? If its a race for competivness have the client post a bid that is the most he wants to pay than let freelancers bid in accordance. So if I wanted to have a post written, I coud put the most I'm willing to pay at 20. State that I will be going with who I feel will give the best price for the work. If it ends up being 5 freelancers, for example, all bidding ten, than I have to pick one of those 5 for the work based on their reviews instead of the lowest price. At that rate the chances are I am going to get a lower quilty product from the 5 who woud do it for 10 as opposed to the ones who put the bid in at $20. If I happened to land it for 10 and prior to finalizing the contract the client in question decided to go for a higher rate based on the interview, why would it be difficult to make the deal reflect that?

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Ace Contributor
Jonathan P Member Since: Jun 28, 2015
25 of 41

I'm asking up work to give more options on helping freelancers land good contracts. 10%, while not being that high of a rate, is still taking a cut of money that is earned for the website. Why is it so much to ask for a company that we are making money for to give us a little more power when it comes to landing jobs? If I have to wait weeks for a good job to show up in my news feed how am I earning money for the web site? Even with the filters they provide the rates are not always up to the level that they should be at. It's really that much to ask that Upwork ask that clients try to match a certain level when it comes to the pay?

I personally think that if you a community guru than you should try to understand where the freelancers who earning the money are coming from instead of trying to say aprecatie the freedom. I still loose their platform and when I make money they make money. So where is the problem with asking to rework the system with clients so more fair wages show up in searchs? 

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Ace Contributor
Jonathan P Member Since: Jun 28, 2015
26 of 41

Use* my appolgies

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Active Member
Rushabh M Member Since: Jun 28, 2015
27 of 41

@Jean S wrote:

@Rushabh M wrote:

I agree with everything that is said here. Upwork is highly skewed toward the clients.

 

1. 11.11% commission + $2 direct bank transfer charges + 5-7% ForEx converstion charges is too extreme. Elance charges 8.9% as commission, and gives 1 free local bank transfer per month. For low-paying jobs, the freelancer hardly gets anything!

 

Commission is 10% not 11.11%

 

If I am charging the client $99, and Upwork adds commission to make it $110, it is actually 11.11% (base price + commission = total). If a freelance quotes $99 + 10%, the total comes to $108.9.

 

There is a $1.99 bank transfer fee (for many countries), and 5-7% foreign exchange rate difference is pretty common with Upwork, Elance, PayPal, etc. My point was that this becomes very expensive. Elance charges 8.9% commission and no bank transfer fee for 1 tranfer a month. Keep it similar, and help the freelancers.

 

For US-based freelancers, only the commission is applicable. But if tomorrow, Upwork changed its basic currency to Euro or Bitcoin, and everyone had to face the bank charges and forex rate discrepancy, then I am sure there would be a big hullabaloo.

 

2. Clients, especially the ones looking for resumes/CVs, ask for templates from freelancers, then cancel the job and decide to do it on their own. There should be a process where we can complain, and at least get our connects back when the client cancels the job due to personal reasons.

 

I've never been asked for a template in all the years I've been in the Category of Resume Writers. 

 

I just applied for 3 resume jobs for "experts" on Upwork, and all 3 asked for samples/templates. I appreciate the fact that Upwork does not support submission of samples, but it is not prominently promoted. Not everyone is aware of it. Last month, 7 of the jobs I applied to on Upwork asked for samples (which I did not provide, but am sure other freelancers did), and all 7 jobs were later cancelled.

 

3. Odesk is famous for its cheap jobs, and there should be a limit to how low a job can be priced at on Upwork. $15-20 for a Resume or LinkedIn rewrite and $1 per 500-worid articles should be disallowed.

 

I totally diagree with a starting limit. Anyone who works in the price range you quote for starting, in the Resume section is not likely to be producing quality work. Most good freelancers simply ignore those jobs and the client gets the message.

 

I agree, but it is scary to see clients offering $20 for a resume upgrade, and 10-15 freelancers bidding for the job. I have been writing resumes for 2 years through Elance, and seldom have I come across such low prices in the Resume category.

 

4. It's scary to know that Elance might be integrated into Upwork very soon. I have been working on Elance for over 2 years now, and the quality of work and clients there is far superior to Upwork, charges are much less, and clients are very respectable.

 

I also have a profile at Elance and it's as bad there as it is here. I see NO difference.

 

I have a friend who works with Elance as a software engineer, and he said it would be merged into Upwork pretty soon. I put my honest opinion here about what I have seen after having bid on both sites (oDesk earlier) since 2013. These sites work on both, good quality clients and good quality freelancers.

 

Increasing charges on freelancers, decreasing the number of connects per month, increasing the number of connects needed to bid per job, letting clients get away with cancelling jobs after acquiring samples (freelancers lose expensive connects in the process), and letting them get away with unnecessarily harsh reviews and feedback with no contest mechanism does not really give freelancers much confidence.

 

All I am saying is, Upwork shouldn't be too client-focused, and nor should it try to indirectly force paid memberships on freelancers, especially after charging such high commission and other charges.

 


 

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
28 of 41
re: "Clients, especially the ones looking for resumes/CVs, ask for templates from freelancers, then cancel the job and decide to do it on their own"

It is your choice to give clients free templates, free work, free consultation, etc.

And it is the wrong choice.

Upwork doesn't tell you to do that. Contractors who do free work for clients drag Upwork down.
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Ace Contributor
Jonathan P Member Since: Jun 28, 2015
29 of 41

Low wages drive the market price down. If a client asks you for a sample of work or you decide to use something as a visual refrence to better expalin it, you consider that a bad practice? Even if you have something on a website as an example that can still be enough for someone to just waste your time and use the interview as a way to formulate their own plan, it does happen quite a bit. You don't have to do work for someone to have their hijack your templates. Pushing content that should be $20 down to $5 hurts the marketplace much more since it is causing for lower skilled workers to fill that niche.

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Active Member
Jonathan R Member Since: Jun 28, 2015
30 of 41

Inactive jobs should definitely be removed from the que. I waste more time applying to jobs than actually working through this site. 

Just browsing the writing jobs available now, check out this chestnut:

"I need 23 articles urgent basis. 300 to 800 words Articles. Rate is not negotiable. I pay only $25 for 22 articles."

So not only are 23 articles of 300 - 800 words required, but a sense of urgency is also explicitly acknowledged. Perhaps a "low paying client" report button should be implemented, as to me that is just an inhumane request of a writer. Disgusting and morally reprehensible, even.

 

7 people applied. 7 different people were willing to rush out 23....or was it 22?...articles for $25.

A report button for inactive clients and another for low paying swindlers may be a great way to combat the greedy clients, and those copying job templates from Ebooks they bought for $5 teaching them how to outsource work to thirsty freelancers looking to work from home.

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