adam25
Member

Feature Request: Bitcoin payments

Hello,

I'd really like to be paid in Bitcoin so that I'm not hit with huge fees and also so that I have to worry less about different currencies.  I think it would be great if this were added as a feature as for us digital nomads it would be very very convenient.  I also feel that it would put Upwork far ahead of the competition.

 

Please consider this request as it would make a lot of people like myself very happy.

 

Thanks,

Adam

35 REPLIES 35
stencil_media
Member

I don't really see the point in Bitcoin. I mean, unless you're buying something from one of the very few places that accept it, you're still going to have to transfer it back to normal money anyway. Sure, the fees for transferring and converting may be minimal compared to other places, but even if you get 100% of the money, that 100% might be 5%, 10% or 99% less than it was at the point you got paid, due to the relative instability of the currency.

 

I got paid in Bitcoin once. By the time I'd figured out how to transform it into money that the local wine shop would accept, I had about 25% less.  

"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)
petra_r
Member


@Adam M wrote:
  I also feel that it would put Upwork far ahead of the competition.

 



 Have you considered that maybe "The Competition" doesn't offer it because it's just not a very good idea?

 

http://www.zdnet.com/article/bitcoin-is-going-to-teach-you-a-lesson-a-costly-one/

This article isn't factual in the slightest, it's just the personal opinion of someone who really doesn't like bitcoin (a lot of "big government" people share this opinion).   Saying it doesn't hold any "real" value when I can go to the atm with a bit coin debit card and withdraw cash is ridiculous to say the least.

Adam,

 

Sorry, this is a total non-starter. All the things you don't want to worry about are things that Upwork is required to worry about by law—primarily those of the United States and California, and to some extent international law and those of each country in which it operates. I am not at all suggesting that there is anything illegal about Bitcoin. I am strongly suggesting that the administrative overhead and complications of auditability for a corporation operating internationally at the nexus of contract and employment law will preclude Upwork, and likely any competitor, from touching Bitcoin or any alternative currency.

 

Best,

Michael

I'm sure people said the same thing about Uber and look where they are now.  Tech companies generally consist of innovative  problem-solvers and I have no doubt that they could make this happen.  From a legal perspective I don't really see how it's much different to loading money onto a US debit card then having that card posted to you especially since the government can still see your income by requesting the information from Upwork.  It merely means that you can bypass the banks which as someone who likes to live debt-free and fee-free is a huge bonus in my opinion.

Bitcoin should be accepted by Upwork. The mere act of starting to accept bitcoin by Upwork is very newsworthy and will attract tons of free publicity and as a result magnitudes of more business and profits and major support from the public.

 

When someone makes a payment by bitcoin, it can immediately be converted to fiat currency by Upwork via automated/API script with the exchange and thereby any risk of fluctuation in price is eliminated. The provider in turn receives either cash as usual or the money can be reconverted to bitcoin at an exchange again auto-API by Upwork and immediately paid out to the providers wallet. Bitcoin will save a lot of money in bank/credit card fees, so this is a major convenience and profit center (from cost savings).

 

If I was the CEO of Upwork I would immediately start accepting bitcoin as payment without any reservations, second thoughts, or qualms. This will put the company at the forefront of innovation, save money, generate much more business, and get tons of free publicity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll add that fiverr is a major Upwork competitor and growing strong and fast by the day, and they are already accepting bitcoin as payment. It's time for Upwork to do the same.


@Gerhard G wrote:

I'll add that fiverr is a major Upwork competitor


 Sadly true.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.― George Orwell

Fiverr and bitcoin...a match made in heaven!

mrdanielprice
Member

I don't think Upwork will implement payment in Bitcoin anytime soon.

 

In all honestly, if the fees are the main reason you'd really like to see this happen, then maybe you need to increase the price you charge for your work to compensate.

 

When working out what I should charge and/or what price I should settle with, I take into  account any currency conversion fees involved.

 

Upwork takes a 10% service charge? Up your rate by 10%.

 

Your bank charges you a fee to convert foreign currency? Take that fee into account, too. For instance, my bank charges me £5 for conversion under £100, then adds 25p on top of that for each £100 increment.

 

So, let's say I need to earn £250 for a particular job, right? Increase to £275 (10% Upwork fee), then to £280.50.

 

I would need to charge the client £280.50 for me to actually earn £250 in the end.

 

Outside of Upwork, fees related to taking payment via PayPal, for example. All you need to do is figure out how much you're really getting in the end and adjust accordingly to make sure that you getting paid what you need to pay your bills or to make doing the work worth it.

 

As a freelancer, fees that you may incur when getting paid need to be considered when you present your fees to clients. Sure, might be charging them more than you'd like to, but it has to be done.

Gerhard signed up to the forums with the sole purpose of writing 4 (!) spammy messages about Bitcoin...

 

It also appears he is talking about Upwork accepting Bitcoin as a payment method rather than as a withdrawal method.

 

Then the comparison to "Fiverr" finally disqualified the whole argument. Fiverr is hardly a glowing example of a professional marketplace, and regardless of any current issues with the Upwork site, the comparison does not hold water.

 

 

Petra,

 

I did not sign up to promote Bitcoin. I signed up to get my project done, if you do a search you'll find my project. I ran into a problem when my paypal funds/account were frozen for an arbitrary reason as it has happened multiple times over the past 10 years. So I looked for other payment methods. I came to the forums to search for a solution and hopefully to use another payment method. Problems like this do not exist with Bitcoin and I would be very happy if Upwork started to accept Bitcoin.

 

Why are you against Bitcoin? **edited for Community Guidelines** Do you like paying fees to paypal and someone controlling your money?

 

Bitcoin is the way to go, you don't leave your money with a third party like Paypal that can arbitrarily block your funds and pay fees out the wazoo. If you like paypal so much and their fees, you can still use paypal, but give people the option to use another payment like Bitcoin as well.

 

Fiverr made the right decision to accept Bitcoin and eventhough it's not as big as Upwork today it's growing exponentnially. When Upwork starts to accept Bitcoin I wouldn't be surprised if their revenue doubles or triples in a short time especially after all of the free publicity it will get from the breakthrough decision.

 

Gerhard

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!


@Gerhard G wrote:

Petra,

 

I did not sign up to promote Bitcoin.


 5 posts, all promoting Bitcoin.

What do you mean 'promoting bitcoin'?  It's a request, not a promotion.

 

I too have had my accounts frozen by PayPal several times.  When it occurs I have to send a fax to Sydney and then wait an undetermined amount of time.  They do this to make micro-gains on their holdings when they expect the value of the currency to increase. 

 

Here's my scenario regardless:

 

I'm a digital nomad.  I can't open a local bank account because I'm not a citizen.

 

My money goes from Upwork wire transfer -> My home country bank account -> Foreign ATM in my current country.

This assumes the following:

Bank currency selling rate: (based on yesterday's withdrawal): 68c

Bank currency buying rate: 76c.

 

Let's say I transfer $700USD 

Cost of wire transfer: $30USD

Cost of ATM withdrawals for $700USD:  $30USD

 

 

Total loss on currency conversion: $35.

Total loss on withdrawals:  $95

 

If wanting to save myself $95 in nonsense fees which go straight into the banks pockets is 'promoting bitcoin' like you have accused Gerard then please explain how that is a bad thing.

 

Also, if you dont want this feature (I do admit that people are intimidated by it because they don't understand it) then don't use it - it's that simple.  Meanwhile the rest of us can continue working without the banks dipping into our pockets.

 

 

We understand it perfectly. It's unsafe. It's a hacker's paradise. There is no regulation, nor protection. The only people secure in Bitcoin is the Founder who remains anonymous and his minions who are collecting your real cash and living well off of it. When they finally decide to cut and run, you have 0 Bitcoins=0 $$.

 

Of course fiverr is using it. 

 

adam25
Member

"When bitcoin shuts down"

 

Bitcoin is a distributed technology, not a company.  The only way for it to shut down would be for every bitcoin holder to agree not to use it anymore or for someone to flick the switch on the internet.

 

What do you think your money is?  It's all 0's and 1's, only 8% of the worlds money is backed by anything of value.  Have you already forgotten what happened in 2008?  

 

It's nice to know your (rather uneducated) opinion of Bitcoin but having it as an option wouldn't effect you in any way at all if you simply don't use it.

 

I signed up to Upwork to comment here my spammy message. Or from an other point of view I have found out about Upwork, just because of Bitcoin, and since I don't have any job now and I'm an experienced software developer I'll check out the website, looking for some opportunity. 

About the topic, my opinion is, I don't think they should accept Bitcoin. It doesn't matter how many "aha" moments I had in the last 2-3 years, because of Bitcoin, it doesn't matter how enthusiastic I am about it, if it doesn't use for a company, then don't implement it. And there is absolutely no reason for any company to implement any feature, just because 0.1% of their users would be very happy about it.

However, there are some marketing reasons they could consider, though. For example, it didn't even started to integrate Bitcoin yet, still a small forum post generated conversions and made about a 10 000 more click to their site from their main target audience (enthusiastic geeks, who have no classic 8-hour/day jobs, often involved in some remote-work project: yeah, that's exactly the Bitcoin community).

Anyway, let it be my first post, and if the magic of the site take me with it, many more will follow.

Cheers!

2a6f2b64
Member

Greetings UpWork,

 

I have created this account specifically to educate the UpWork community on what Bitcoin is, **edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Bitcoin is purely a peer-to-peer decentralized currency (or commodity). Bitcoin is 100% owned by the bearer of that coin. If you have one bitcoin in your wallet, then you are the sole owner of that Bitcoin. Nobody, (not even the creator as mentioned earlier) has access to your Bitcoin. Nobody can control, influence or withdraw your bitcoin, except for you.

 

When you download the Bitcoin Core client, this piece of software generates an sortcode/accountnumber unique to your hard-drive. This sortcode/accountnumber will only ever be generated based on your individual hard-drive. Nobody else in the world can gain access to your details.

 

When you send a payment via Bitcoin, the receiver usually gets their Bitcoin in less than 10-minutes, with a miniscule amount of fees paid. Typically, the fee is around $0.05 per transaction. 

 

"Miners" on the network verify that all transactions are real and legitimate. They do this by tracing the original source of the funds, and following them through the "bank accounts" on the public ledger. If the Miners are 100% certain that the transaction is real, then the transaction is made in real-time. 

 

Bitcoin doesn't have regulation? No, it doesn't. But the companies who use Bitcoin are regulated (usually). If I send 1 bitcoin to Upwork, then I expect Upwork to credit me with the Dollar equivilent. If they fail to do so, then Upwork have fallen foul of the relevant regulations and can subsequently be prosecuted in court.  Bitcoin does not need regulation, as it is the companies themselves who are regulated.

 

In the typical banking network, the banking network is regulated. The banks are regulated. The companies are regulated. There is too much regulation that makes the whole system costly and time consuming (but that's another story).

 

Please people. Do not make assumptions on Bitcoin if you are simply uneducated on the subject at hand.

 

Bitcoin is an Open Source piece of software - meaning that ANYBODY can investigate the source code of the software. There are no viruses/trojans, and it is not a Ponzi scheme. Since it is open source, anybody can look at how the Bitcoin system works freely. Do you think we'd all be using it if was a Ponzi scheme?

 

Do you think the USA government would of legalized Bitcoin if it was a ponzi scheme?

 

With that said, I would like to also note that currently, Bitcoin has over 1 million users. As it goes, we're a loyal bunch. We will always choose a company that accepts Bitcoin over a company that doesn't. We believe that our technology is revolutionizing the world. Starbucks chose to accept Bitcoin, and guess what? Their sales are through the roof. Us Bitcoiners love giving our hard-earned Bitcoins to companies who believe in our Open Source technology and unregulated, free-to-move and derestricted currency.

 

With that said, UpWork adopting Bitcoin would be a massive boost to their potential user base. If Fiverr accepts Bitcoin, and UpWork doesn't, and I can get the same service at Fiverr - then I will choose to shop at Fiverr, as will 1million PLUS bitcoiners.

 

Thanks.

 

To the moon!!! ┗(°0°)┛ ..○ To the moon!!! ┗(°0°)┛ ..○ To the moon!!! ┗(°0°)┛ ..○

Matthew

 

No need really - you already have Adam working for you.

 

"Bitcoin does not regulate, prevent movement, or restrict the freedom of our users." (My emphasis)

 

OOps - bit of a slip there...    Robot Embarassed

 I was redirected to this post from another forum and made an account just to comment. With all due respect the discussion pro or against bitcoin is futile, some posts are actually very shocking and biased considering it is coming from a technology community. Pros and cons of bitcoin do not matter, personals opinions do not matter either.

 

 Some businesses prefer to deal with cash, others prefer debit cards and maybe credit cards while others may prefer steel coins only, gold , silver , wire transfer, money order, oil barrels or whatever. They have their reasons and personal preferences, it is just a matter of having the choice. It is up to the parties to select the mean of trade.

 

 Bitcoin is just one more option and nobody is obligated to take it. The more options you have the best it is for everyone.

 

 

adam25
Member

Why are people so hostile to this? Is it because of politics or something? It would be a win for everyone and a loss for no one. Don't like it don't use it.


@Adam M wrote:
Why are people so hostile to this? Is it because of politics or something? It would be a win for everyone and a loss for no one. Don't like it don't use it.

 No ones hostile but the great percentage don't care or don't want it.

 

The LAST thing we need is more changes. Fix what we have first and stop with all the things you think we SHOULD have.

 

Bitcoin is not one of them. Please ...give us a break.


@Jean S wrote:

@Adam M wrote:
Why are people so hostile to this? Is it because of politics or something? It would be a win for everyone and a loss for no one. Don't like it don't use it.

 No ones hostile but the great percentage don't care or don't want it.

 

The LAST thing we need is more changes. Fix what we have first and stop with all the things you think we SHOULD have.

 

Bitcoin is not one of them. Please ...give us a break.


 I've been working as a freelancer accepting bitcoin by preference for years, YOU really SHOULD not have it but please do not not say WE.

Signed up because of this. I've never heard from upwork but would give it a try when Bitcoin is an option.

Thanks

adam25
Member

Thanks Matthew it seems like a great community there, I'll have to subscribe.
adam25
Member

The comments are not spam they are relevant and you do not have to subscribe to this thread if you do not want to be part of the conservation.

Honestly I'm astounded that someone could be so selfish as to hope to deny a service which people could benefit from simply because you do not wish to use it yourself. Is this really the way forward?

Oh please.

 

Upwork works in US dollars. It doesn't offer any other currencies. Not Euros, not sterling, not yuan renminbi. And not bitcoin. If it ever does start offering payment in other currencies I should imagine it will start with real ones.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.― George Orwell

There is no different between USD/EUR/YUAN... All of them are FIAT money. Every user with a bank account can pay in USD to Upwork indifferently of the coin they actually hold in their bank accounts. Ignoring the commission, of course.

 

But Bitcoin is different, you can't pay in USD to Upwork with your Bitcoins (in fact you can, but you need to own a special debit card). But Upwork can accept Bitcoin and receive USD at the moment using Bitpay, Braintree or any other payment gateway. So I don't see why they wouldn't accept it, they will have more potential clients and they will still receive USD as right now.

 

 

adam25
Member

What's the benefit of offering other currencies? Very little in my opinion. Bitcoin offers an immediate transaction with barely existent fees at a global level. It's a huge benefit. What about people in countries where they really can't trust their banks, Argentina, Venezuela, Russia etc? They have great talent and I'm sure they'd love the security of bitcoin payments.


@Adam M wrote:
What's the benefit of offering other currencies? Very little in my opinion.

Which neatly sums up the value of your opinion on the topic. If I could get paid in Euros I wouldn't lose any money in currency exchange. That seems like a benefit to me. Please try to think outside your bitcoin obsession for a moment. Most people here are more concerned that basic functionalities like messaging, search tools and invoicing don't work or aren't even implemented.

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.― George Orwell
adam25
Member

The money has to be converted at some point in the process unless your employer is paying euros. Still goes out of one bank and into another which means fees. Then what are the chances of having all currencies added as payment methods?

My original request is for bitcoin also because I'm a digital nomad and have to deal with many different currencies. I'd rather just deal with bitcoin and not have to worry about that.
geoff55
Member

Adam and others

 

I've looked at Bitcoin and have found good, rational arguments on both the pros and cons. It may have a place but for me personally at this time it is not an issue. I agree that fiat currency will collapse, as it has many times throughout history and at that time Bitcoin may really come to the fore. But what you are missing here is that Upwork is a privately owned company and like any other business it operates first and foremost in its own best interest.

 

If Bitcoin makes sound economic sense for Upwork they'll possibly implement it. Whether Microsoft, Apple, Overstock, Costa or Starbucks use it is irrelevant to Upwork and that Fivrr uses it is not necessarily a recommendation.

 

Your best approach would be to put together a sound business case for Bitcoin and present it to the shareholders and management and take it from there.

 

What is not a good approach is posting in the forum from a perceived position that this is what we believe and you shall believe the same. **edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Adam M wrote:

"What do you mean 'promoting bitcoin'?  It's a request, not a promotion."

 

And a request is exactly what the OP was. Sadly the thread has deteriorated from there.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi All,

 

While we appreciate the discussion and your feedback, we would like to ask you to please be mindful of the Community Guidelines and treat other members of the Community with respect. Several comments have been removed from this thread.

 

Thank you.

 

~ Valeria
Upwork

Hi all,

We appreciate the debate surrounding Bitcoin and will share the dialogue with our team. We'll continue to evaluate all payment/withdrawal methods so that we can provide users with options that make the most sense for them. 

 

That being said, as Valeria mentioned, we've closed this thread to further comment. The dialogue in this thread too often violated our Community Guidelines and rather than continue removing/editing comments to avoid further confrontation, we have closed it to further comment. 

 

Thanks,

Garnor