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Feature request: fixed price trials without review risk

kinector
Community Guru
Mikko R Member Since: Dec 26, 2015
11 of 24
Christine, OMG, you were thinking about the exact same issue coming from the client's perspective at the same time as I was! 🤣

Geniuses think alike (or something)? 😉
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
12 of 24

Joseph O wrote:
It would increase the GMV by increasing the amount of projects that are possible for freelancers like me to take on.

Only if nobody was hired other than yourself. If another freelancer does the job, the GMV stays the same. I'm sure you don't believe that clients won't hire anyone if you don't take a contract because you are afraid of poor outcomes.

 


Joseph O wrote:
Also, a $200 contract recently reduced my JSS by 1%.

Use your top rated perk if it bothers you. That's what it is there for.

 

I would think Upwork will be totally unlikely to consider a feature nobody has ever asked for and which wouldn't be of any use to the vast majority of users, based on your unique situation.

 

I have contracts ranging from $5 to over $100k. It never occured to me to turn down work from great clients just because I am frightened of poor feedback. 

 

I do turn down contracts from clients who aren't the kind of clients I work well with, but that is out of principle, not based on project value.
.

 

 

 

joeorsi28
Ace Contributor
Joseph O Member Since: Aug 28, 2017
13 of 24

Petra, 

 

I'm not describing a hypothetical problem. I'm describing an actual problem that both myself, my clients, and my colleagues face fairly regularly. There is truly no point in arguing that this wouldn't be useful to me or my clients or that my clients wouldn't be interested in working for me if they weren't allowed to leave me a review, because you are arguing against something that is just true. Real clients have requested this feature to me. Ignoring feedback from the people who are actually on the ground is a terrible way to do business. It's okay to decide to not add a feature. It is completely absurd to rail against me like this and tell me that my issue isn't real. 

 

Anytime you put up a barrier that prevents a trade of goods and services that would otherwise be successful, there is a deadweight loss and GMV will be lower because of it. It doesn't matter if the client then goes and finds another freelancer, because they will still be choosing the second best fit. Utility will be lost. If you do this on a large scale, GMV will be lower than it otherwise would be. 

 

I wish that I was allowed to leave feedback for whatever service you are meant to be providing to this forum. Your responses are so consistently discouraging and seem to have the soul purpose of crushing any dialogue that might otherwise occur. I would truly much prefer to have received no response at all. 

feed_my_eyes
Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
14 of 24

Joseph O wrote:

There is truly no point in arguing that this wouldn't be useful to me or my clients or that my clients wouldn't be interested in working for me if they weren't allowed to leave me a review, because you are arguing against something that is just true. Real clients have requested this feature to me.


I've been on Elance/Upwork for over 20 years and not one single client has ever even hinted that they wish this was a feature. (This doesn't make your experiences irrelevant, of course - just sharing my own.) But if your clients don't want to leave feedback, you can simply close contracts yourself and then they don't have to. Why must they be prevented from doing so?

 


Joseph O wrote:

Anytime you put up a barrier that prevents a trade of goods and services that would otherwise be successful, there is a deadweight loss and GMV will be lower because of it. It doesn't matter if the client then goes and finds another freelancer, because they will still be choosing the second best fit. Utility will be lost. If you do this on a large scale, GMV will be lower than it otherwise would be. 

 


But it would be bad for clients if unqualified freelancers clamoured to do test projects for them, secure in the knowledge that they won't be reviewed on their performance, and quite happy to work for a small payment. Feedback is currently the only thing that weeds out bad freelancers and serves as a warning to other clients not to hire them. Many of them would be happy to exclusively bid on small test projects, then clients would receive terrible work and run a mile. You think that wouldn't hurt Upwork's bottom line?

 


Joseph O wrote:

Ignoring feedback from the people who are actually on the ground is a terrible way to do business. 

 


You've stated your case and I'm sure that a moderator has read the thread by now and will "pass it onto the team" if it merits consideration. But other freelancers can also weigh in as to why this might not be such a good idea; shouldn't our feedback count as well?

 


Joseph O wrote:

Petra, 

 

I wish that I was allowed to leave feedback for whatever service you are meant to be providing to this forum. 


We're allowed to leave feedback in the form of kudos. Cast your eyes to the right of your screen - Petra has been the "top solution author" and "top kudoed member" for as long as I've been a part of this community.

alexandernovikov
Community Guru
Alexander N Member Since: Dec 28, 2008
15 of 24

Is that right? Is JSS dollar-weighted? I know star rating is/was dollar-weighted, but i always assumed JSS wasn't?

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
16 of 24

Alexander N wrote:

Is that right? Is JSS dollar-weighted? I know star rating is/was dollar-weighted, but i always assumed JSS wasn't?


It originally wasn't.

It is now.

alexandernovikov
Community Guru
Alexander N Member Since: Dec 28, 2008
17 of 24

And does that mean that projects that got a bad feedback but were 100% refunded, do not impact JSS anymore at all? They used to.

Same with projects that ended with no money being ever paid. They also used to impact JSS negatively. But if JSS is dollar weighted now, they shouldn't right?

If both is true, this is definitely Very Good news, almost hard to believe.

egaruth
Moderator
Nikola S Moderator Member Since: Jul 2, 2020
18 of 24

Hi Alexander,

 

If you refund the full amount of a contract and your client leaves positive feedback, it will not be included in your JSS. This is because contracts with good feedback but no earnings aren't considered in the score.

 

You can find more information about how job size is affecting your Job Succes Score on this thread

 

~ Nikola

Untitled
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
19 of 24

Alexander N wrote:

And does that mean that projects that got a bad feedback but were 100% refunded, do not impact JSS anymore at all?


No, it doesn't mean that and if it meant that it would be disastrous news, because freelancers could just get rid of any sign of bad feedback and messed up contracts.

 

But contracts with no money paid, but positive or no (private) feedback don't hurt the JSS anymore. If there is poor private feedback, they do.

feed_my_eyes
Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
20 of 24

Alexander N wrote:

And does that mean that projects that got a bad feedback but were 100% refunded, do not impact JSS anymore at all? They used to.

 


A client's bad private feedback can still impact your JSS, even with the dollar weighting (there will be less impact, but not zero impact). If that weren't the case, everyone would have a 100% JSS and Upwork may as well get rid of it altogether.

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