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Feedback Removal

Once a contract is ended with a client, how long does a freelancer need to wait before he can ask for the feedback to be removed by upwork?
117 REPLIES 117
petra_r
Member


OROYINKA P wrote:
Once a contract is ended with a client, how long does a freelancer need to wait before he can ask for the feedback to be removed by upwork?

Are you top rated?

Yes


OROYINKA P wrote:
Yes

If you haven't used the perk in the last 3 months and the last 10 contracts, you can do it right away.

I tried it, I was told I need to wait 14days after contract closed. I donโ€™t know if that is a new development.


OROYINKA P wrote:
I tried it, I was told I need to wait 14days after contract closed. I donโ€™t know if that is a new development.

It's not true. Go right back to them and tell them you want it removed now.

 

I assume you haven't left feedback to the client because you don't want the feedback showing on your profile at all, right?

I left a feedback, that was how I was able to see the bad rating.

I followed the due process I read online. Or is there another method?

Can you send a link so I can see if it tallies with what i read online on how to ask for a removal?


OROYINKA P wrote:
I left a feedback, that was how I was able to see the bad rating.

I followed the due process I read online. Or is there another method?

Can you send a link so I can see if it tallies with what i read online on how to ask for a removal?

I already did, but here you go again. There is no 14 day wait time.

Iโ€™d give you an update, thank you.##- Please type your reply above this
line -##

Yes, we can only process a feedback removal 14 days after the job has been closed. Please let me know after 14 days if you wish to proceed with the removal and I'd be happy to assist.


This was his response


OROYINKA P wrote:
Yes, we can only process a feedback removal 14 days after the job has been closed. Please let me know after 14 days if you wish to proceed with the removal and I'd be happy to assist.


Go back and ask him to escalate it to his team-lead straight away.

He is wrong.

PS - Did you use the correct process and email freelancersuccess at Upwork dot com rather than ask in a ticket to general support?

Yes I used the exact method. Freelancesuccess@upwork.com. I also stated the contract ID and also the โ€˜Hide on profileโ€™

I have been getting a feedback from just one representative.


OROYINKA P wrote:
Yes I used the exact method. Freelancesuccess@upwork.com. I also stated the contract ID and also the โ€˜Hide on profileโ€™

I have been getting a feedback from just one representative.

Have you asked for the issue to be escalated to a team-lead?

Yes I already did.


OROYINKA P wrote:
Yes I already did.

Good ๐Ÿ™‚ Do let me know how it works out!

This was the response I got.

My name is *****, one of the supervisor here on Upwork and I'll be glad to assist you with your concern about the feedback removal perks for Top Rated freelancer.

As much as we love to process the removal right now, it is not possible since the contract was just ended on June 26, 2020. Please understand that this is the current process we have and we need to follow accordingly. We will be able to remove this, however, we need to wait for the 14 day feedback period to complete first prior to removal of the feedback. This will ensure that the feedback being removed is already final and no more changes can be made thereafter.

Write back and tell that person that the feedback is already final and no more changes can be made already as both parties have left their feedback.

(Or did you enable the client to change their feedback?)

 

Ask them where it says that. It has NEVER been the case before and if they had changed it, it would say so somewhere.

lenaellis
Staff
Staff

Hi Oroyinka and Petra,
 
I can confirm that the information shared by the support agent is correct. We recently changed this process just a few weeks ago. For Top Rated feedback removal the process is that feedback cannot be removed before 14 days have passed since the contract was ended. Otherwise, until 14 days has passed, the change window isn't final and feedback may be edited by the other party.

Support articles were to be updated. We will make sure that information is reflected in our help documentation as well.
Untitled

Lena,

 

This new policy, which has not previously been communicated to me as a freelancer, is quite simply ridiculous.

 

If 14 days must now pass before removing client feedback then the freelancer can't prevent the rating from affecting the biweekly update of the JSS. And once the JSS is updated, even if client feedback is eventually removed the ongoing affect can be to reduce the running total of the minimum 13 out of 16 weeks that is part of the Top Rated calculation.

 

And holding off removing feedback because  the 14-day "change window" hasn't passed is nonsensical. We have been told multiple times on this board (and no Upwork moderator has ever said otherwise) that the client can only change their public feedback during the "change window," while it's really the unchangeable private feedback that has a significant affect on the JSS. Or has this now been changed, too?

 

Upwork keeps making it harder and harder to be a happy freelancer. 

 

And please start pushing such important changes out to freelancers, rather than just hiding them via unannounced updates to the Web site's voluminous "help documentation," which no busy and successful freelancer has the time or inclination to constantly review for changes. (Surely that's not what the Upwork changemasters are hoping for - that no one will notice?)


Will L wrote:

Lena,

 

This new policy, which has not previously been communicated to me as a freelancer, is quite simply ridiculous.

As Upwork gets larger, we can expect that more and more palpable changes will be made to the site without prior notice.

It is everything but ideal.

But it's inevitable.

No, Abinadab, it is neither inevitable nor acceptable that Upwork makes significant changes to its policies and terms of service without notifying its customers (both clients and freelancers).

 

No company or entity is so large that it should think it can make such important changes without notice.

 

This sort of thing might be common in your market, but I have accounts with some of the largest banks and credit card companies in the world and they always notify me when they are making a significant change in the terms of my relationship with them.

 

We should expect no less of Upwork.

Please don't conflate this with terms of relationship.

It's not necessarily the same: of course they (Upwork) are required to, and they do inform of material changes to the terms of service.

Same as your bank. Same as Paypal. Same as facebook.

 

But does Facebook or LinkedIn, for example, inform you of every material change to the features on their platform? The platform is unweidly and new things are added (or dropped) almost everyday. It's not a bank

On IT platforms like these, it might be possible to give notice of every material change in the features available.

But it may not always be practicable.

 

ETA: I'm pretty sure that somewhere in the ToS you agreed to use the platform on an as-is basis, and that changes might be brought to the site's features/functionalities with or without prior notice.


Lena E wrote:
Hi Oroyinka and Petra,
 
I can confirm that the information shared by the support agent is correct. We recently changed this process just a few weeks ago. For Top Rated feedback removal the process is that feedback cannot be removed before 14 days have passed since the contract was ended. Otherwise, until 14 days has passed, the change window isn't final and feedback may be edited by the other party.

When both parties have lleft feedback, no changes are possible unless they click on "enable XYZ to change feedback."

 

If this were to be true (and I do not believe it is) that would be a disgrace. It would condemn top rated  freelancers to a JSS drop for certain and to 2 weeks with bad feedback on their profile. It can, timed badly, even lock them out of the top rated program completely.

 

Private feedback can't be changed anyway, so what in the word would be the point? And when you get poor feedback on Saturday, lose your top rated status on Sunday, you only have 7 days to remove it, but can't request removal for 14? I don't think so.......


Are you sure that's not when a freelancer is just trying to dispute feedback?


I can not believe this change was really made. There must be a misunderstanding or crossed wires or miscommunication. 

 

Upwork wouldn't do that. Or would they?

 

I believe that 14 day thing it is for when freelancers try to dispute feedback, not when a freelancer wants to use their perk. That just simply can't be true. It's too (self-edited for community guidelines) to be true. Even on Upwork.

 

Okay, but this will have affected my job success score.

If after 14days, I request for a feedback removal change, will my job success score that was affected be updated so as to negate the effect it had previously .


OROYINKA P wrote:
Okay, but this will have affected my job success score.

If after 14days, I request for a feedback removal change, will my job success score that was affected be updated so as to negate the effect it had previously .

Yes it will, but not until the next update and I still don't believe that this is correct because it would be the most ridiculously silly change I have seen in a very long time, if ever.

In my limited experience, the JSS will eventually be re-calculated
excluding the removed feedback, but the 13 of 16 weeks calculation will
nevertheless record your JSS as having dipped below 90 for a week (if
that's the effect of the original feedback).

If your JSS did not.drop below 90 due to the original feedback, it won't
matter as much in the long run.

Can any of the mods tell us why this wasn't in the announcements? 


Lena E wrote:

I can confirm that the information shared by the support agent is correct. We recently changed this process just a few weeks ago. For Top Rated feedback removal the process is that feedback cannot be removed before 14 days have passed since the contract was ended.  

I'd like to circle back to this, if I may. The explanation is flawed and does not make sense.

 


Lena E wrote:
Otherwise, until 14 days has passed, the change window isn't final and feedback may be edited by the other party. 

What "change window?" There *is* no change window that runs from closing the contract to 14 days later. Once a party has left feedback, they can not change it unless the other party enabled changes. In that case, they can indeed change feedback for 14 days, several times if they like, which is in itself all wrong but that's another mess, not connected to this one.

 

Even if that was the misguided plan, how in the world would delaying the use of the perk for 14 days from when the contract was closed address anything to do with the change window, which needs activating by the parties and can be activated even after the 14 days? And is a completely different process?

 

Why would Upwork make such a massive and damaging change to address an issue that doesn't exist in the first place? That would be plain idiotic!

 

Now had the OP used the "enable client to change feedback" function, it WOULD make a bit of sense, as Upwork might remove the feedback, but the client could leave feedback again up to 14 days after the "change feedback" button was clicked.

 

But that doesn't justify not allowing any feedback removal for top rated freelancers until 14 days of the contract being closed, because without enabling the feedback change, there is no "change window."

 

ONLY if a freelancer enabled "Allow client to change feedback" prior to requesting the feedback removal would such a policy make any sense at all, because in that case the client could leave feedback again, but not during the 14 days from the end of the contract, but 14 days from when the change function was enabled.

 

Say the freelancer doesn't notice the poor feedback for 10 days because they were on holiday. So they enable the feedback change and the client does not change feedback. So the freelancer, 12 days after the contract closed, decides to use the perk. On day 14 Upwork removes the feedback, but the "change window" is actually still open for another 10 days...

 

Feedback changes can be enabled months after the contract ended. There simply isn't any such thing as a "change window" that begins at the time the contract closed and ends 14 days later. Such a window does not exist and never has.

 

Also, as we all know fully well, the written feedback and the stars are merely a cosmetic flaw. What affects the JSS is the private feedback, which can't be changed at all.

 

While we're at it: Please take a look at this help article called "Enable Freelancer to Change Feedback"

 

 It states that "such changes can only be made one time per contract"

 

On the other hand, in the help article "Enable Clients to Change Feedback" it states that "The window for making changes stays open the full 14 days and your client can make multiple changes during this period."

 

Which is it? Once only? Or multiple? Or one rule for clients (freelancers can change the feedback they left for clients only once) and another for freelancers (clients can spend 2 weeks changing the feedback every hour)?

 

"We recently changed this process just a few weeks ago."

 

in terms of: Upwork may, in its sole discretion, amend this Agreement and the other Terms of Service at any time by posting a revised version on the Site. Upwork will provide reasonable advance notice of any amendment that includes a Substantial Change (defined below), by posting the updated Terms of Service on the Site, providing notice on the Site, and/or sending you notice by email.  https://www.upwork.com/legal#useragreement

 

Assuming this isn't regarded as a substantial change, only a revised version of the ToS needs be made available.  As it says above that a change was made 'a few weeks ago' it should be reflected in the ToS. Where do we find it?

 

And why is a newly enforced delay of 14 days not deemed 'substantial'?


Kim F wrote:

"We recently changed this process just a few weeks ago."

As it says above that a change was made 'a few weeks ago' it should be reflected in the ToS. Where do we find it?

 

And why is a newly enforced delay of 14 days not deemed 'substantial'?


I don't think perks are part of the ToS anyway.

 

That said, this change is so utterly, completely ridiculous. Someone wasn't thinking, clearly. And still - the reason given is (insert favourite word... my filter is malfunctioning). How is this justified as addressing something that doesn't exist? I suppose the only thing we can do now when a contract goes wrong is to NOT leave feedback and then request the perk on the 14th day. That does, of course, mean we can't end such contracts...

 

Honestly Upwork. No. JUST NO! 

Well, I'd like to add my voice to Petra and all the concerned freelancers here. I've had a bad experience with a client recently, and when I tried to use the feedback removal perk I discovered that I need to wait for 14 days.
Then, my JSS will drop, and subsequently, It will be recorded that I've been dropped out of the top-rated program for 2 weeks. I don't know now if my JSS will be risen again to enable me to get back to the Top-Rated program. 
But to cut this short:
1. My client didn't use the "change window" after leaving his feedback.
2. I have to wait for 2 weeks with bad feedback on my work history, which makes it difficult to have new contracts.
3. After 14 days with bad feedback on my profile, I'd be out of the top-rated program for 14 days more, If dropping out for 2 weeks wouldn't affect my "top-rated eligible weeks" record.

This change is just for the best interest of the clients over the freelancers' !!!


Mahmoud S wrote:

Well, I'd like to add my voice to Petra and all the concerned freelancers here. I've had a bad experience with a client recently, and when I tried to use the feedback removal perk I discovered that I need to wait for 14 days.
Then, my JSS will drop, and subsequently, It will be recorded that I've been dropped out of the top-rated program for 2 weeks. I don't know now if my JSS will be risen again to enable me to get back to the Top-Rated program. 
But to cut this short:
1. My client didn't use the "change window" after leaving his feedback.
2. I have to wait for 2 weeks with bad feedback on my work history, which makes it difficult to have new contracts.
3. After 14 days with bad feedback on my profile, I'd be out of the top-rated program for 14 days more, If dropping out for 2 weeks wouldn't affect my "top-rated eligible weeks" record.

This change is just for the best interest of the clients over the freelancers' !!!


I also want more clarity on this, and I'm quite outraged. 

 

If I have to wait two weeks, and this feedback drops me out of TR during those two weeks, then I won't be able to remove it after this imaginary "change window"  passes.  This deincentives me to continue to use Upwork because my contracts are large and I take few clients - so this will definitely affect me if something goes awry. 

 

If we request feedback to be removed, but have to wait, and while waiting we lose TR status, does our request still get processed? THIS MAKES NO SENSE! 

 

I have no poor client feedback. I'm at 100% JSS with only a few contracts, and the one time I did drop below 90% was due to a contracting error in which the client and I set up the contract but then had to pause and we  paused for too long, and I didn't realize it would hurt my JSS since we did eventually finish the project.   And this error was compounded by bad advice from CS who told me to close the contract without earnings (failing to mention that it would hurt my JSS) and open another.  (Petra, don't kill me for paraphrasing the situation.) 

 

Upwork continuously failes to understand how their own system works, poorly advises freelancers who are simply doing EXCELLENT work, and by no real fault of their own being penalized.  How is this "perk" even a perk if we can't use it? The best thing about the perk is being able to use it strategically when we drop below 90%. Now it's not even useful. 

 

I was about to increase my workload from Upwork. I've been turning down jobs on Upwork, and was going to take on more of the invitations I get because I'm expanding my consulting firm so I have more capacity. My contract are usually $3000 to $10,000. Now I'm not sure if I want to bother wasting time on Upwork. Why are you killing your own revenue by penalizing freelancers like this? 

 

Upwork is turning into an online temp agency, and today I'm quite frankly over it. 


Amanda L wrote:

I was about to increase my workload from Upwork. I've been turning down jobs on Upwork, and was going to take on more of the invitations I get because I'm expanding my consulting firm so I have more capacity. My contract are usually $3000 to $10,000. Now I'm not sure if I want to bother wasting time on Upwork. Why are you killing your own revenue by penalizing freelancers like this? 

 


Indeed. I can see several outcomes as a result of this new policy, none of them good:

 

1. Increased numbers of freelancers will harrass clients about changing their feedback. If poor feedback will be left on our profiles for 14 days, there's even more incentive for freelancers to try and get clients to change their minds. 

 

2. Increased reluctance for freelancers to take a chance on clients who have no previous track record on Upwork, including turning down all invitations from direct messages (in which you can't see the client's history at all). If a freelancer is teetering on the brink of a 90% JSS, it'll be just too risky to accept invitations or bid on projects posted by new clients. Upwork is creating a situation in which new clients are less likely to get bids from its best freelancers (even less likely if the project is high in value) - how is that going to help Upwork acheive any growth in profits? 

 

3. Increased incidents of freelancers doing extra work and revisions for free - and putting up with abuse from terrible clients - because they're worried about having a bad review sit in their profile for two weeks. This will mean decreased revenue for Upwork as well, since we're less likely to take a stand on having clients create new milestones or insist on having them increase our weekly hours.

 

4. Decreased likelihood that a freelancer will bid on any projects for the two-week period following a bad feedback review. I'll tell you for a fact that if I get a terrible feedback review, I'll just ignore Upwork and wait out the two weeks, while focussing my marketing efforts elsewhere.

 

Also, as others have stated, why does Upwork keep trying to sneak in these new changes and subject us to stupid "tests" all the time? Every time I log into Upwork and see a forum thread that's several pages long, I get a sinking feeling of, "NOW what have they done???" I don't feel like I can rely on this website at all, because I never know what new policy Upwork is going to throw at me next, that may hamper my business and make my life more difficult. It's great that I have access to new clients through Upwork, but at the same time, it's terrible that I'm so strongly and increasingly incentivised into yanking my clients off of the site the moment the two-year period expires, because I feel like my business is better protected off of the website than on it.

 

Very accurately noticed. I already doubt that I chose the right place to build a business. Why is UpWork destroying its competitive advantages over other freelance sites?


Petra R wrote:


I don't think perks are part of the ToS anyway.

 

That said, this change is so utterly, completely ridiculous. Someone wasn't thinking, clearly. And still - the reason given is (insert favourite word... my filter is malfunctioning). How is this justified as addressing something that doesn't exist? I suppose the only thing we can do now when a contract goes wrong is to NOT leave feedback and then request the perk on the 14th day. That does, of course, mean we can't end such contracts...

 

Honestly Upwork. No. JUST NO! 


This "perk" is not longer perk - it's pointless. Bad feedback will affect JSS and I doubt its effects on JSS can be removed after 14 days. UW should remove it altogether then..
But, first and foremost - THEY SHOULD HAVE INFORMED US!!!

Thanks everyone for making me not feel as if I have lost my mind.....

 

Upwork, the given reason is  utterly false because there simply is no such thing as a "change period" that starts when a contract is closed. It doesn't exist. That is absolute BS.

 

There is no downside to keeping the perk as it always has been. 

 

So, Upwork, as the given "reason" has been debunked as utter BS, kindly come up with a better reason for this utterly ludicrous way you are taking our perk away in the most sneaky and malicious way.

 

We are waiting!

Letโ€™s take for instance a freelancer has 90% as his JSS, then he gets a bad feedback and he has to wait 14days. During the period of the wait, he drops below top rated. Will he still be able to request for a feedback removal?

yes, the freelancer can send a screenshot of the drop-out e-mail along with the feedback removal request.
But still, I don't know what will be the effect of being out of the program for 2 weeks, which reduces the number of top-rated eligible weeks!

Can I add that feedback removal isn't just about removing bad feedback and its effect on the JSS. It can also be about unrepresentative feedback or feedback that the freelancer feels is damaging in some other way.