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Feedback Removal

Once a contract is ended with a client, how long does a freelancer need to wait before he can ask for the feedback to be removed by upwork?
117 REPLIES 117

Say no more!
I have a stain on my profile now that I keep checking everyday morning hoping that it will go away at some point.

And crickets from the mods. . . 


Jared K wrote:

And crickets from the mods. . . 


 

...as usual...

We want answers. 

 

Upwork is so worried about us taking clients off site and circumventing, but how can they blame freelancers when they pull stuff like this?  I was feeling some loyalty not just from TOS to obey the rules, but a lot of people are going to lose that brand loyalty and start circumventing really quickly if they are treated like this. 

 

Again, Upwork is an online temp agency. I would advise clients to find good consultants/freelancers elsewhere at this point.  It's clear they have decided their best move is to offer low cost temps over high quality consultants. 

I'm going to post just to bump this thread - and I'll keep doing that until someone from UW replies.
...and not a copy/paste reply...


Sanja D wrote:

I'm going to post just to bump this thread - and I'll keep doing that until someone from UW replies.
...and not a copy/paste reply...


Yes, and if they're not going to make any official announcement about it, then we should keep bumping this thread so that other freelancers can make informed decisions about whether to vet clients even more carefully from now on.

 

Answers needed, indeed.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

I've been slow to speak up because frankly, I've got outrage fatigue. And this is pretty outrageous for all the reasons mentioned. Typically, when UW makes a wrongheaded change we can at least follow the wrongheaded logic driving it. I'm utterly bewildered as to why this was done. Who benefits? Has there been a tsunamic of clients unhappy because FLs could remove feedback once every three months/10 projects? 

 

I'm low volume, relatively high value on this platform. I've not needed to use the perk yet but I'm positive it's only a matter of time because it's inevitable that a project goes sideways occasionally. As others pointed out, this raises the stakes astronomically on working with clients who don't have proven track records here. For those whose scruples are not ironclad, it disincentivizes staying on the platform and it generally undermines loyalty all round. 

 

Stacked on top of the new pre-contract communication policy, it really does feel like UW is wishing I would go away.

Lena...

 

It surprises me to say this, but this change is even more poorly thought out than the recent TOS change. At least with that one, I can see a well-intentioned motivation and thought process that would lead too such an ill-conceived, ineffective, and harmful policy change. But I can't see any reasoning behind this latest change at all.

 

I hear you saying that it's because of the 14-day change window, but unless that has silently changed as well, clients can't change the feedback without the freelancer authorizing it—and since we still have an "Enable client to change feedback" button on recently closed contracts, I'm guessing it hasn't changed.

 

The only cases where a client is going to come back and make a positive change to feedback is where they realize immediately they've made a mistake, or where the freelancer asks them to. And I can't see any case where a professional (the ones who have this TR perk available to them in the first place) would ask a client to change their feedback. First, it's unprofessional, and second, it risks having the client make the feedback even worse. Instead, the path is to understand what went wrong, fix it for going forward, and mitigate the damage. On Upwork, that means using the removal perk if it's available. This change makes that mitigation much less effective. Instead of preventing a JSS hit and possible loss to TR status, the hit is inevitable and the TR loss is much more likely.

 

I can't figure out any case where this change makes sense. Please reconsider it.

 

I've more to say, but it's probably better I stop talking now.

 

Thanks.

 

Wes

I was also under the impression that a client can only change their feedback on a project if I enable it. 

 

Upwork, is this not the case? 

 

And can you respond to all the other questions on this thread please? We'd really like to know why you thought this was a good idea. 

tunlary
Member

You can remove the feedback once you've gotten your money, and make sure you inform them to leave you a review. Most of those clients sometimes feel reluctant to provide you with a review. 

This development is extremely worrying.

I have never used the perk to remove feedback, but it was my safety net. In the last couple of months, I have taken up clients with NO history, and clients with a somewhat questionable history, simply because I knew that if something goes wrong, I can just get rid of the feedback and/or remove it from the JSS calculation.

Now, suddenly, out of the blue, Upwork has made a big hole in this safety net. And as others have pointed out, it does not even seem to have any logical benefit. Then, pray, why??


Prachi T wrote:

This development is extremely worrying.

I have never used the perk to remove feedback, but it was my safety net. In the last couple of months, I have taken up clients with NO history, and clients with a somewhat questionable history, simply because I knew that if something goes wrong, I can just get rid of the feedback and/or remove it from the JSS calculation.

Now, suddenly, out of the blue, Upwork has made a big hole in this safety net. And as others have pointed out, it does not even seem to have any logical benefit. Then, pray, why??


And they never informed us so we can modify our client vetting practices accordingly. I just took on a new client who I hope everything will go well with, but I do have some anxiety about it. I may have chosen not to take this client on if I had known this. 


Omotunde T wrote:

You can remove the feedback once you've gotten your money, and make sure you inform them to leave you a review. Most of those clients sometimes feel reluctant to provide you with a review. 


You need to read a little bit more because obviously you do not understand what we are talking about. 

tunlary
Member

I hope it's not job success scores😊😊

the way I see it - the whole point of 14 days "waiting period" is to include bad feedback in JSS calculation. If that's the case - what's the point of removing it? So that any possible future client doesn't see it on your profile? Most of the clients here can't be bothered to read our proposals - let alone our feedback from previous jobs...


Omotunde T wrote:

I hope it's not job success scores😊😊


It's not. We're talking about the feedback removal perk, which is no longer a perk.


Christine A wrote:

Omotunde T wrote:

I hope it's not job success scores😊😊


It's not. We're talking about the feedback removal perk, which is no longer a perk.


Well it is also JSS, because if you cannot remove the feedback, then it will negatively impact your JSS and you may lose your TR status. So apparently they are simply removing the perk by creating a barrier to using it, and in the meantime calling it something else. 

Wait wait, how is the feedback removal no longer a perk? I thought it was a "top rated only" perk? 


Alexander B wrote:

Wait wait, how is the feedback removal no longer a perk? I thought it was a "top rated only" perk? 


Well, first if the bad feedback drops you below 90%, you only have 2 weeks to have it removed and now you can't do that. The change makes no sense. 

 

Also, they are telling you (us) that it's so that feedback can be changed, which also makes no sense because clients can only change stars and stars don't matter, JSS does. People use the perk to preserve their JSS.

Still crickets...


Alexander B wrote:

Wait wait, how is the feedback removal no longer a perk? I thought it was a "top rated only" perk? 

____________________________________________


It was a top-rated perk. Now it is a top-rated punishment.

 

I wonder what we pay a service fee for? It can hardly be for the minimalist accounting. 

vstuart
Member

Well, I never had to use the perk before, but it was very nice knowing it was there. Oddly enough, I truly pictured all of us having to use it with the new ToS change, at one point or another, so it was a comfort of sorts. And POOF...it's gone...coincidence? I think not. 

 

I'm not normally a conspiracy theorist, however, I'm starting to feel like we're all "in the way".Of what...I have no idea.

 

I'm one of those who, in any fight, will still gets back up, and when I Iook around, I think most of us are. What I see around me are a very awesome group of highly intelligent hard working individuals with great heads on their shoulders, who will continue to shine, no matter where we are. 

 

SMH. Who loses in the end?  Not us. 

 

Sigh...

Upwork, let me, as a chess player, calculate for you the consequences of this rule change.

1) What will happen now: - TR will cease to communicate with customers without a history and positive reviews. Previously, I was ready to take a chance and do work for a client without feedback, knowing that I have a perk, I was ready to take a chance and earn money for myself and for you. Now I will not do this, like many other freelancers. You will lose many customers who do not receive quality offers and go to your competitors. 

2) What will happen after a while: - Most of the TR freelancers will lose their rating, reduce their income, and will no longer be loyal to you. They will move to earn other freelance platforms. This will lead to the fact that, on the one hand, the remaining customers will not receive the first-class service, and on the other hand, an increase in the price of contracts for customers due to lack of competition, which will force them to also go where the offers are adequate in price and quality. Due to reduced income, you will start raising your fees from 20 percent to 25 or higher. Which will finally kill you. 

3) What happens at the end: - Moderators and other employees will be fired because there will be nothing to pay. - Exchange Stocks Upwork will fall - Shareholders will dismiss the entire management but it will be too late. The Titanic will go to the bottom. 

What is happening now is more and more reminiscent of sabotage within the company. Someone from the team runs along the hold of the ship and punches holes.

Just bumping this so Upwork doesn't think we're not interested in answers still...

The only change that I see here is that the private feedback is not removed. Yes, it leads that a bad job outcome leads you to a more durable effect in your JSS. But, in the positive way, it will lead freelancers to choose better the jobs based if they will have a good outcome with that.


Lucio Ricardo M wrote:

The only change that I see here is that the private feedback is not removed. 


No, that is not what you are seeing here and I am at a loss where that idea even comes from.

 

Let me explain it to you

 

BeforeAfter
the effect of private feedback on the JSS is removed. The contract no longer affects the JSSthe effect of private feedback on the JSS is removed. The contract no longer affects the JSS
public feedback can be removed as an optional extra upron requestpublic feedback can be removed as an optional extra upron request
The action is performed upon requestThe action can not be performed until 14 days from when the contract was closed, with the given reason being something that does not exist in the first place

 

EDITED TO ADD: I just had a dreadful thought, which is actually the only way the given explanation (and lack of response) would make any sense.....

 

Are Upwork now allowing clients to change their feedback within 14 days of the contract ending?

If yes, that is an even bigger problem....

 

It would also explain the crickets. They hope we'll just forget about this and move on and the thread drops out of sight like the one about why Upwork are running experiments where some (allegedly) clients can no longer see our previous rates.

Good morning.

 

Just bumping this so it doesn't disappear.

Haha, I hope they review it!

Does it make sense to wait until the very last minute to leave your feedback? You have 14 days, right? so if you wait 13 days, you'd be able to submit for removal the next day?


Viacheslav K wrote:

Does it make sense to wait until the very last minute to leave your feedback? You have 14 days, right? so if you wait 13 days, you'd be able to submit for removal the next day?


Yes, but that does not mitigate the effect on the JSS or potential loss of eligible weeks and top rated status because the effect will now last from 2 weeks at best and nearly 4 weeks at worse (depending on when in the JSS Update cycle the contract is closed)


Petra R wrote:

Viacheslav K wrote:

Does it make sense to wait until the very last minute to leave your feedback? You have 14 days, right? so if you wait 13 days, you'd be able to submit for removal the next day?


Yes, but that does not mitigate the effect on the JSS or potential loss of eligible weeks and top rated status because the effect will now last from 2 weeks at best and nearly 4 weeks at worse (depending on when in the JSS Update cycle the contract is closed)


Yeah, that makes sense. I guess they are making this change because some clients are angry when whey see their feedback was removed. This way they will see it and will not check in the future. I had a client that wrote about me in another freelancer's feedback, after I removed his feedback.

Are Upwork now allowing clients to change their feedback within 14 days of the contract ending?

If yes, that is an even bigger problem....

 


well, there is a conflict here, someone mentioned that freelancers can do it once while clients can change their feedback more than once along the 14 days.
Again, Upwork is going for the clients' best interests more and more


Petra R wrote:

Lucio Ricardo M wrote:

The only change that I see here is that the private feedback is not removed. 


No, that is not what you are seeing here and I am at a loss where that idea even comes from.

 

Let me explain it to you

 

BeforeAfter
the effect of private feedback on the JSS is removed. The contract no longer affects the JSSthe effect of private feedback on the JSS is removed. The contract no longer affects the JSS
public feedback can be removed as an optional extra upron requestpublic feedback can be removed as an optional extra upron request
The action is performed upon requestThe action can not be performed until 14 days from when the contract was closed, with the given reason being something that does not exist in the first place

 

EDITED TO ADD: I just had a dreadful thought, which is actually the only way the given explanation (and lack of response) would make any sense.....

 

Are Upwork now allowing clients to change their feedback within 14 days of the contract ending?

If yes, that is an even bigger problem....

 

It would also explain the crickets. They hope we'll just forget about this and move on and the thread drops out of sight like the one about why Upwork are running experiments where some (allegedly) clients can no longer see our previous rates.


Hmmm.... you mean the whole double-blind system would be meaningless? It would be great if somebody in the thread who is a client who recently ended a job could test this hypothesis.... 

Valerie S, What new TOS change are you referring to?


Will L wrote:

Valerie S, What new TOS change are you referring to?


Presumably she means the one about not communicating outside Upwork. That's what I understood it to mean, as it's the only one in the last few days as far as I am aware?


Petra R wrote:

Will L wrote:

Valerie S, What new TOS change are you referring to?


Presumably she means the one about not communicating outside Upwork. That's what I understood it to mean, as it's the only one in the last few days as far as I am aware?


Yes, that's the one I was referring to.

I don’t think Upwork should leave us in the dark as to why this new approach to feedback removal has been implemented – without warning or explanation.


But I see no apparent change in Upwork’s description of the feedback removal information:


https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/219801228-Feedback-Removal


And no mention of a 14-day waiting period before requesting feedback removal.


So, I have some questions for a moderator or regular client who knows how these things work in order to understand precisely how feedback removal has been working and how this change will be implemented –


1) Under the new rule, can the client change both private AND public feedback any time and as often as they wish beginning 14 days from when they first leave feedback (or afterward)?


2) If a client changes their feedback, will the freelancer be notified or will the freelancer have to review every client’s feedback every day for 14 days to see if they changed their original feedback (either negatively or positively)?


3) Will the freelancer be allowed to change his/her feedback as often as the client changes his/her feedback?


4) Under the old rules, if a Top Rated freelancer removed client feedback would the client just see a blank page when they subsequently tried to look at the freelancer’s feedback for them, regardless whether the freelancer requested the client’s feedback be removed completely or just removed from the freelancer’s JSS calculation?


5) What does the client see under the new rules when a Top Rated freelancer has successfully removed the client’s feedback – the original feedback, a blank page, a notification of removal (“This feedback has been removed”), other? And does the client see different information before the feedback’s removal and afterward?


6) Can a Top Rated freelancer immediately request removal of client feedback as before, but have to take into account that the removal won’t actually take place until 14 days after the project ended, 14 days after the client left the feedback or 14 days after the freelancer requests the feedback’s removal? And can the freelancer withdraw their request for removal of a client's feedback before Upwork acts on the request, preserving that perk for future use?


7) Will Upwork now notify a freelancer if a client’s feedback is not going to be included in the freelancer's JSS calculation due to the client having a record of being difficult to work with or consistently leaving negative feedback for their previous freelancer's?


😎 Will the JSS calculation now be calculated on a backdated basis, meaning the most recent JSS calculation will be updated as though the feedback had been immediately removed upon request (as under the old rules) and never entered the JSS calculation?


9) Will the “13 of 16” calculation for Top Rated qualification be updated as though the JSS had been calculated excluding the client’s removed feedback?


10) Can clients request that freelancer feedback for them be removed? If so, are there limits to how often this can be done, as there is for Top Rated freelancers’ feedback removal perk?

Will, thanks for setting out the questions, but I just want to clarify that so far nobody has confirmed that clients can indeed change feedback for 14 days after a contract ends. Which would be utterly outrageous.

 

I was asking whether that was the case, because that was the only way Lena's explanation would make any sense. As far as I can see, either the "no more feedback removal until after 14 days" rule makes no sense, or the explanation is not reflecting the real facts or there is now a "change feedback" window of 14 days... 

 

Lenas post.png

The only clear thing is that something changed 'a few weeks ago'.

 

What was it?

 

Why has it been kept secret?

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