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Feedback Removal

Once a contract is ended with a client, how long does a freelancer need to wait before he can ask for the feedback to be removed by upwork?
117 REPLIES 117


Kim F wrote:

Why has it been kept secret?


Because this is Upwork.

 

Petra,

 

I think I know the answers to some of those questions, but the time for freelancer speculation is over.

 

Upwork needs to clearly state its policies for all to see. I hate that there are so many little "Easter eggs" in Upwork's policies - unstated but very important information that neither freelancers nor clients can read about in Upwork's support documentation or know until they have a problem and Upwork resolves the problem (in private, so no other client or freelancer is privy to the resolution).

 

I respect preserving privacy, but no user of Upwork should have to wonder what the rules, policies and procedures are.


Petra R wrote:

Will, thanks for setting out the questions, but I just want to clarify that so far nobody has confirmed that clients can indeed change feedback for 14 days after a contract ends. Which would be utterly outrageous.

 

I was asking whether that was the case, because that was the only way Lena's explanation would make any sense. As far as I can see, either the "no more feedback removal until after 14 days" rule makes no sense, or the explanation is not reflecting the real facts or there is now a "change feedback" window of 14 days... 

 

Lenas post.png


I, too, would like clarification about the statement above, "until 14 days has passed, the change window isn't final and feedback may be edited by the other party." I gave a client feedback just last week - so 14 days haven't passed - and there's certainly no option for me to change MY feedback. So if this is true then it's only on the client's side, which would ensure that no freelancer ever gives a bad client an honest review ever again, for fear of retaliation.

 

The continued silence from Upwork makes me think that they're scrambling for a response, and no good news is forthcoming.

 


Christine A wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Will, thanks for setting out the questions, but I just want to clarify that so far nobody has confirmed that clients can indeed change feedback for 14 days after a contract ends. Which would be utterly outrageous.

 

I was asking whether that was the case, because that was the only way Lena's explanation would make any sense. As far as I can see, either the "no more feedback removal until after 14 days" rule makes no sense, or the explanation is not reflecting the real facts or there is now a "change feedback" window of 14 days... 

 

Lenas post.png


I, too, would like clarification about the statement above, "until 14 days has passed, the change window isn't final and feedback may be edited by the other party." I gave a client feedback just last week - so 14 days haven't passed - and there's certainly no option for me to change MY feedback. So if this is true then it's only on the client's side, which would ensure that no freelancer ever gives a bad client an honest review ever again, for fear of retaliation.

 

The continued silence from Upwork makes me think that they're scrambling for a response, and no good news is forthcoming.

 


____________________________________

I would also like clarification. I thought feedback was a double blind. 

If this is the case it is yet another major concern when making a decision whether or not to take on new clients here. 


Christine A wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Will, thanks for setting out the questions, but I just want to clarify that so far nobody has confirmed that clients can indeed change feedback for 14 days after a contract ends. Which would be utterly outrageous.

 

I was asking whether that was the case, because that was the only way Lena's explanation would make any sense. As far as I can see, either the "no more feedback removal until after 14 days" rule makes no sense, or the explanation is not reflecting the real facts or there is now a "change feedback" window of 14 days... 

 

Lenas post.png


I, too, would like clarification about the statement above, "until 14 days has passed, the change window isn't final and feedback may be edited by the other party." I gave a client feedback just last week - so 14 days haven't passed - and there's certainly no option for me to change MY feedback. So if this is true then it's only on the client's side, which would ensure that no freelancer ever gives a bad client an honest review ever again, for fear of retaliation.

 

The continued silence from Upwork makes me think that they're scrambling for a response, and no good news is forthcoming.

 


The correct response would be... the moderator or CSR made a mistake. Clients cannot change their feedback unless a freelancer enables them to do so. Further, a freelancer does not have to wait two weeks to use the perk.

 

I can't for the life of me understand what Upwork is trying to accomplish. Even if they want to expand more into temping services, it doesn't make any sense for them to run off all their current established, successful freelancers. If they want to grow their business they should grow it, not grow one part while simultaneously shrinking another.


Kelly B wrote:

Further, a freelancer does not have to wait two weeks to use the perk.

They do now.

Upwork's just refusing to tell us why.


Petra R wrote:

Kelly B wrote:

Further, a freelancer does not have to wait two weeks to use the perk.

They do now.

Upwork's just refusing to tell us why.


This is the response I got from them, but I still don't understand it.

 

Oh, I see. Thank you for sharing your concern today, Kelly. In regards to that, yes we have updated this perk recently that we can only remove the feedback after 14 days of the ending date. This is to make sure that the 14 day feedback period is closed.

 

There's a 14 day feedback period in which both the client and the freelancer are still able to change their feedback if they agree to each other by enabling the option to change feedback.

 

Within that 14 day feedback period, the option to enable to change feedback are still visible. That's why in the recent change, to make sure that feedback can no longer be edited, we have implemented the update that we can only remove a feedback as one of your perks after the 14 days feedback period.

 

In regards to that please know that for the Feedback removal perk, freelancers still have the option to request for a feedback removal 2 weeks if their Top Rated status is being removed due to a slip of their JSS. But we're surely reviewing this matter further and while we don't have specific details nor time frame, we'll surely let you know if there are any changes to the process. We greatly appreciate your understanding on this.


Kelly B wrote:

Within that 14 day feedback period, the option to enable to change feedback are still visible. That's why in the recent change, to make sure that feedback can no longer be edited, we have implemented the update that we can only remove a feedback as one of your perks after the 14 days feedback period.


That's not a 14 day period. Freelancers and clients can agree to change feedback for months, so that's simply more complete nonsense.

 

Look, this contract ended in December

 

This is a COMPLE shambles. I can't even...... 

 

change feedback.png

 


Kelly B wrote:


Within that 14 day feedback period, the option to enable to change feedback are still visible. That's why in the recent change, to make sure that feedback can no longer be edited, we have implemented the update that we can only remove a feedback as one of your perks after the 14 days feedback period.

 

The first sentence sounds as if they're saying because you can harass a nasty client to change feedback for 14 days, that should be your first option. 

 

The second sentence is surreal. Because obviously it can't be edited any more if it's been removed. 

 

ETA: And none of that addresses the lack of an announcement.

 

ETA again: Am I the only person who feels as if we and Upwork are in parallel universes that don't quite connect? This is severely hurting my brain.

There simply **IS** no 14 day "enable to change feedback" window. 

 

Here is one that closed over a frigging YEAR ago!!

 

over a year.png

 

And the biggest joke about this whole thing is the fact that that team is called "Freelancer-Success Team"

 

What the....


Petra R wrote:

There simply **IS** no 14 day "enable to change feedback" window. 

 


I'd mistakenly attributed sanity to the Upwork elves and assumed that bit had been changed to 14 days. You are, of course, right. 

 

But the implication is that even when feedback has been removed, a truly nefarious client could threaten the freelancer with dismembering or something, and the scared freelancer could allow changes and therefore the mean client could edit the feedback that no longer exists. As in replacing it with some that does exist.

 

Which is actually currently the case. The feedback I had removed fairly recently can be seen at my end although it has been deleted from my profile. If I wanted to baffle that client, I could press the button allowing for change so they could put it back. 


Kim F wrote:

Petra R wrote:

There simply **IS** no 14 day "enable to change feedback" window. 

 


I'd mistakenly attributed sanity to the Upwork elves and assumed that bit had been changed to 14 days. You are, of course, right. 

 

But the implication is that even when feedback has been removed, a truly nefarious client could threaten the freelancer with dismembering or something, and the scared freelancer could allow changes and therefore the mean client could edit the feedback that no longer exists. As in replacing it with some that does exist.

 

Which is actually currently the case. The feedback I had removed fairly recently can be seen at my end although it has been deleted from my profile. If I wanted to baffle that client, I could press the button allowing for change so they could put it back. 


Actually some good did come out of this in my world. I had forgotten to leave feedback for a good client and I felt terrible about it. Today I was able to leave him the glowing recommendation he deserved. So thanks to Petra for point that out!

I just wanted to chat with support to get something on the record. I did the same thing with the ToS change. It doesn't seem like they're going to come back to this thread and gives us a clear explanation. Maybe if enough of us try going the support route someone can get a more definitive answer.


Kelly B wrote:

It doesn't seem like they're going to come back to this thread 


Oh they will.

Just as soon as someone high enough in the foodchain has approved the corporately spun response...

 

If they wanted to avoid clients leaving feedback again after it had previously been removed, but the freelancer had already enabled feedback changes before asking for the perk, they could simply refuse to remove the feedback IN SUCH A CASE ONLY (If the freelancer has enabled changes, they have to wait 14 days from enabling changed (NOT from the contract closing.)

 

If that's what they were trying to achieve then they, in true Upwork style, went after a molehill with a nucular weapon.

 

And aimed it in the wrong direction, blowing up the house and not the molehill... which is still there, surrounded by a bunch of angry freelancers. And a confused mole.

 

Bravo!

 

You just know the positive spin of how beneficial this change is for freelancers is being written right now, and will take a bit before the mods have to serve it here and bear the uh.. feedback. 

 

I kinda wish mods were left to do their modding work in peace and the product managers or whoever else in the chain comes up with these changes in the workflow/process was also made responsible for both delivering the corporate presentation piece here, and replying to the questions it inevitably raises.

 

 

Upwork is just waiting for us all to chuck our toys out of our prams, to lie down and drum our heels on the floor, and generally for the temper tantrums to die down and  Upwork life will go on.


Only this time - it isn't temper tantrums. Upwork needs to stop underestimating the sort of freelancers that have so far supported the ToS changes, have so far acted as its judges and jury, and who have so far put up with the  endless moving of the goalposts. 

 

I wonder if this time, Upwork has not hit an artery ... perhaps this is what it wants?

Finally we won!!! It is a mistake on their end!


Kelly B wrote:

I just wanted to chat with support to get something on the record. I did the same thing with the ToS change. It doesn't seem like they're going to come back to this thread and gives us a clear explanation. Maybe if enough of us try going the support route someone can get a more definitive answer.


If support told you that there's only a 14-day window to enable feedback changes, then they are wrong. As Petra says above, I just checked and I can still click on "Enable client to change feedback" for projects that closed ages ago. It won't help to contact support if they're going to give incorrect information - somebody higher up needs to provide some answers.

 

lol the 14 day thing is a ruse.It makes no sense because even if the client changes feedback, JSS private feedback can't be changed and that's the only reason to use the perk. Unless that's not true anymore too. Someone who decided to come up with the "it's cuz 14 days herrr" didn't realize we know how JSS and feedback changes work. lol

 

 

This thread have been doing numbers. At least an agent should come in here and listen to all we have to say. The way it seems it looks like all we are saying is falling on deaf ears.


Kelly B wrote:


This is the response I got from them, but I still don't understand it.

 

Oh, I see. Thank you for sharing your concern today, Kelly. In regards to that, yes we have updated this perk recently that we can only remove the feedback after 14 days of the ending date. This is to make sure that the 14 day feedback period is closed.

 

There's a 14 day feedback period in which both the client and the freelancer are still able to change their feedback if they agree to each other by enabling the option to change feedback.

 

Within that 14 day feedback period, the option to enable to change feedback are still visible. That's why in the recent change, to make sure that feedback can no longer be edited, we have implemented the update that we can only remove a feedback as one of your perks after the 14 days feedback period.

This makes so little sense. I don't know if Upwork is worth my time anymore. I am just about to run out of connects, and am seriously thinking of not buying any more because it is exhausting to keep up with all these bizarre changes that just create a poor user experience both for clients and for professional freelancers.

 

This one is the most baffling. I thought we had private feedback and the JSS because some desperate and unprofessional freelancers would hound clients to change their reviews and star ratings if they were anything below 5/5 and glowing. Some still do this, but it doesn't help their JSS. 

 

Wouldn't this just encourage those freelancers to harass clients even more for feedback changes? How does that contribute to a positive experience for clients?

 


Samantha S wrote:

This makes so little sense.


It's been rolled back. Everything is as it was before 🙂

lenaellis
Staff
Staff

Hi Oroyinka, Petra, et al.: 

 

To cut to the point, this update was a mistake on our end. The issue we were trying to resolve by waiting for the 14-day period for feedback removal was that when feedback is removed, we were concerned it could trigger to our system that no feedback was left. As a result, clients could possibly leave their feedback again.

 

But after further testing, we found that’s not the case. Our mistake and apologies for the confusion around this. Thank you everyone for chiming in on this thread. I just met with the CS teams and they’re also updating their information.

 

-Lena

Untitled

Lena...

 

Thank you for the explanation.

 

So, what you're saying is that someone thought there might be a bug and implemented a disruptive, manual policy change to work around it.

 

Wouldn't it have made more sense to first test to see if the bug existed and then, if it actually did exist, fix it?


Wes C wrote:

 

Wouldn't it have made more sense to first test to see if the bug existed and then, if it actually did exist, fix it?


 😂🤣

Lena,
When will it be reversed, please?


Lena E wrote:

 

To cut to the point, this update was a mistake on our end. The issue we were trying to resolve by waiting for the 14-day period for feedback removal was that when feedback is removed, we were concerned it could trigger to our system that no feedback was left. As a result, clients could possibly leave their feedback again.

 


It wasn't a problem before so presumably you changed something which caused it to become a potential problem.  What was that?


Kim F wrote:

Lena E wrote:

 

To cut to the point, this update was a mistake on our end. The issue we were trying to resolve by waiting for the 14-day period for feedback removal was that when feedback is removed, we were concerned it could trigger to our system that no feedback was left. As a result, clients could possibly leave their feedback again.

 


It wasn't a problem before so presumably you changed something which caused it to become a potential problem.  What was that?


I suspect the issue they were trying to address was actually the following:

 

Step One: Client leaves bad feedback

Step Two: Freelancer sees bad feedback, panics and hits the "Enable Client to change feedback" link

Step Three: Client doesn't change feedback

Step Four: Freelancer asks to use his perk and gets it removed

Step 5: Client notices, and because the freelancer had previously enabled feedback change, the client can leave feedback again.

 

Either way, I'm glad it's been sorted, but seriously, it should not have needed so much screaming on our side and frankly shouldn't have happened in the first place. I am at a loss as to how that ever made sense to anyone.

Petra

Then it would be easier to just add a line of code and add a button for support which nullified the possibility of 5 steps after deleting a review.
Step 4 - The freelancer uses the perk - tech support resets the previously issued permission to change feedback.

Lena,

 

Thank you for eventually providing an explanation of the problem here but it shouldn't have taken three days to get this important issue resolved.

 

Three hours should have been too much time to clean up this mess, but when even Upwork support people clearly don't understand Upwork's important rules and systems, how can either freelancers or clients ever hope to do so?

 

I'd still like some answers to questions so I can best look after my own interests in dealing with unreasonable and unsavory clients, including:

 

1) If a Top Rated freelancer removes client feedback will the client just see a blank space when they subsequently try to look at ther own feedback, regardless whether the freelancer requests the client’s feedback be removed completely or just removed from the freelancer’s JSS calculation?

 

2) If Upwork has decided a certain type of client's feedback will not be included in that client's freelancers' JSS calculation, does Upwork still require freelancers who are Top Rated to unnecessarily use their feedback removal perk for that client's feedback?

 

Thanks in advance for some more clear answers.

 

 


Will L wrote:

1) If a Top Rated freelancer removes client feedback will the client just see a blank space when they subsequently try to look at ther own feedback, regardless whether the freelancer requests the client’s feedback be removed completely or just removed from the freelancer’s JSS calculation?

 

2) If Upwork has decided a certain type of client's feedback will not be included in that client's freelancers' JSS calculation, does Upwork still require freelancers who are Top Rated to unnecessarily use their feedback removal perk for that client's feedback?

1. If a freelancer uses the perk to only remove the contract from the JSS, the client see the contract with the feedback given and received, as does everyone else.

If a freelancer removes the public feedback along with the JSS impact, the client sees "This feedback has been removed" and the feedback the freelancer left for the client, if any, as does everyone else.

 

2. As the exclusion only affects the private feedba (it does not hide public feedback)k, and we don't know which clients are excluded (but chances are that many, if not most, can be identified by their feedback left and received, it can clearly happen that a freelancer uses the perk to remove feedback from such a client, even if the outcome would not have affected the JSS.

Petra,

 

Thank you for patrolling the message board so assiduously to try to answer everyone's questions and resolve so many problems, but if I address a post to a specific person, I'm looking for a response from that person.

 

 

Hi, Lena.

 

I'd still like to better understand what options I have as a freelancer in dealing with feedback and what clients see in regards to my feedback for them, including:

 

1) If a Top Rated freelancer removes client feedback will the client just see a blank space when they subsequently try to look at ther own feedback, regardless whether the freelancer requests the client’s feedback be removed completely or just removed from the freelancer’s JSS calculation?

 

2) If Upwork has decided a certain type of client's feedback will not be included in that client's freelancers' JSS calculation, does Upwork still require freelancers who are Top Rated to unnecessarily use their feedback removal perk for that client's feedback?

 

Thanks in advance for some clarity on these questions.

2) If Upwork has decided a certain type of client's feedback will not be included in that client's freelancers' JSS calculation, does Upwork still require freelancers who are Top Rated to unnecessarily use their feedback removal perk for that client's feedback?


Upwork does not require freelancers to remove feedback that will damage their JSS, or feedback that will not damage their JSS. It's a matter of choice.

Upwork will never tell you if/that removing a certain feedback from the JSS is unnecessary, as it would violate the private nature of the feedback.

Still, Upwork has sought to reassure that if removing a certain feedback will reduce your JSS, your JSS will be kept the same even after removal.

 


1) If a Top Rated freelancer removes client feedback will the client just see a blank space when they subsequently try to look at ther own feedback, regardless whether the freelancer requests the client’s feedback be removed completely or just removed from the freelancer’s JSS calculation?

Only a client who has had their feedback removed, or a mod who can access such a client's account can answer this question. I'd wager Petra is neither of those.

ETA: Still, I believe the client will continue to see the public feedback they left in the contract page but will see Feedback removed on the freelancer's profile.

Hi Will, 

 

I see Petra and Abinadab have already replied to your questions and I can confirm the information they've shared. I'd like to reiterate that if a Top Rated freelancer chose to remove public feedback by exercising the perk, it'll be removed from their profile. The client can still see it on the contract page of their account.

Upwork doesn't require freelancers to use the perk and Upwork representative processing the removal request will not be able to share information about how feedback that's being removed affected the freelancer's JSS. Removing feedback may not always result in a change in JSS.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Thanks for the reply, Valeria.

In case anybody is wondering - it is back to normal now.

I had to use my perk today (for the first time), and it was all done within a few hours. 

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