dearwd
Member

Feedback to UpWork (and Freelancers) to increase revenue and to expand market

  • 1) There must be a maximum and minimum limit of bid. In UpWork, if client says that budget is 900 USD, any freelancer (especially new freelancers) can offer to do it within 10 USD. Smiley Sad Is it really fair? The system decreases earnings of both freelancers and UpWork. Remember the history of Elance.There freelancer could minimize to 30% of budget. For example, if the budget was 100 USD, freelancer could offer 70 USD, but not less than 70 USD.

 

 

  • 2) Bring the option to provide "Service" or "Gig" like **Edited for Community Guidelines** as many client may not have sufficient time to post job. They will be able to choose the right "Service" offer instantly. Any new freelancer will be able to open 5 "Service". After any type of successful job completion with minimum 4 star feedback, freelancers will be able to post more 5 Services. All service must be of fixed price basis.

 

 

  • 3) All Service (Proposed above), bid for Fixed Price Job, Hour rate must be of minimum 10 USD.
 

 

  • 4) Implement the system of Feedback again in UpWork like Elance. Beside that withdraw the Job Success Score system. No new freelancer, even who has completed some jobs are not getting any new job. No one can expain how the JSS works.This is complete a disaster. Even in another freelancing website Guru, they provide the option to block feedback. If UpWork goes with JSS, many new freelancers may move to other freelancer marketplaces.

 
  • 5) When client sees applicants name, show also how many tests the freelancer appeared, with related test name at beginning.
 
 
Thank you.
 
 
**Edited for Community Guidelines**
44 REPLIES 44
katrinabeaver
Member

Yes it's fair. They have every right to bid what they want just like anyone else does.  What you have to do is show the client why your skills is worth the price.  

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

Sorry, If the client has the ability ro expense 900 USD, and if it's the budget, then you can offer 800 USD, or 700 USD, or 600 USD. But if anyone offers 10 USD, then it destroys the level playing field. No one has the right to destroy the market for own narrow interest.

andrie81
Member


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:
  • 1) There must be a maximum and minimum limit of bid. In UpWork, if client says that budget is 900 USD, any freelancer (especially new freelancers) can offer to do it within 10 USD. Smiley Sad Is it really fair? The system decreases earnings of both freelancers and UpWork. Remember the history of Elance.There freelancer could minimize to 30% of budget. For example, if the budget was 100 USD, freelancer could offer 70 USD, but not less than 70 USD.

 


With everyone seems to be at the same offer, I think that will 'encourage' the client to carefully look at the proposal/portfolio.

The cons: New freelancer will less likely get hired. How's that called fair?

 

 

 

 

Grammar nazis - Cakap Melayu la kalau terer sangat. Takat bahasa Inggeris boleh la nak eksyen.

"The cons: New freelancer will less likely get hired. How's that called fair?"

 

New freelancer should take part in free exams to prove skill...

It would be unfair for only new freelancers to take a skills test. If skills tests had to be taken, everyone would have to take them, regardless of how long you worked on the platform.

 

Furthermore, a client generally - speaking gets what he pays for. This is a free forum, based on sound capitalist principles. As a freelancer, I can bid whatever I want to bid on that $600 project. I can bid $100, or I can bid $1000. It is up to the client to choose who he thinks is the better fit. Not the bidder, i.e. freelancer.

Before someone jumps on the 'free forum' bandwagon and tries to point out the 20% fee charged by Upwork> it is a free forum in as much as I can bid however much I want to on a project. As in all capitalist ventures, Upwork does not bring clients and freelancers together for the sake of charity. Of course they charge us for the opportunity to find clients. Whether we are successful or not in doing so, is not Upwork's problem.

Not every skill does not require to attend test, it's for them who are advanced.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**.

 

Anyway, what's your opinion about other points?


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

 

New freelancer should take part in free exams to prove skill...


 
I've failed/barely passed on ALL the essential software test on my field. Now, that would put me as a freelancer that doesn't have any skills to deliver a successfull project. Correct? 🙂

Yeah, no wonder it's hard to land a good paying project on Upwork. lol

Client have all the rights to choose their contractors. Just don't expect a large pizza with rich toppings with a price of a single candy tho.

Grammar nazis - Cakap Melayu la kalau terer sangat. Takat bahasa Inggeris boleh la nak eksyen.

Really sad! But you can re-take exam after 30 days. Take necessary preparation withing this time.

Although sometime client accepts new freelancer if they can offer specific something good in proposal. So, stop to send any copy/paste proposal, and be specific to specific need.


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

Really sad! But you can re-take exam after 30 days. Take necessary preparation withing this time.

Although sometime client accepts new freelancer if they can offer specific something good in proposal. So, stop to send any copy/paste proposal, and be specific to specific need.


Yeah, really sad. Smiley Sad

In that case I should stop worrying about the low bidders and client that put a $900 budget, selecting contractor that propose $10 for it. If somebody out there is happy to work for it, let them be. Right? Smiley Wink

Personally, I really think I can't land any project without any skill tests result in the software required in my field. So it's a bit unfair if skill tests are the only option to show my capabilities and can't build up the rep/portfolio I need to land future project.

Should I do a project with a budget of $900 for $90? Very unlikely.

Grammar nazis - Cakap Melayu la kalau terer sangat. Takat bahasa Inggeris boleh la nak eksyen.

I am telling that if any client's budget is 900 USD, and you are fit for it, you will go with that. And if any client's budget is 100 USD, and someone "X" is fit for it, he or she will go with it. I am just opposing the present rule of that when client declares that budget is 900 USD, and someone asks to do that with 10 USD.


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

I am telling that if any client's budget is 900 USD, and you are fit for it, you will go with that. And if any client's budget is 100 USD, and someone "X" is fit for it, he or she will go with it. I am just opposing the present rule of that when client declares that budget is 900 USD, and someone asks to do that with 10 USD.


lol 

cristina-popa
Member


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

 3) All Service (Proposed above), bid for Fixed Price Job, Hour rate must be of minimum 10 USD.

 

 You are using your own hourly rate as benchmark for what Upwork should do or not. How is your rate (i.e. 10/hour) and experience (i.e. grand total of 3 projects) relevant to other freelancers? Please explain.

My view of the other points mentioned by the OP?

 

They are as follows:

 

The OP is arguing from his own standpoint and viewpoint. As such, there is nothing wrong with it. However, what he proposes is also from his own, particular, perspective. It is not taken from the global perspective.

 

Let me explain.

 

I have my own view on many things Upwork related, and those who know me also know that I do not hesitate to criticize as and where I seem fit. However, looking at things from a holistic viewpoint, his point are non-doable, and all have been discussed in some manner or form elsewhere in the forums..exhaustively. 

 

What someone who is new to the forum thinks and feels is reasonable, is different than what someone with some small measure of success has such as someone with three completed contracts under his or her belt. Once one gets more contracts completed, your viewpoint changes yet again. So I would argue using a totally different mindset than someone just starting out, for example. 

All the rules should be a common ground for newbie to super experts. My proposals, that I wrote, meets maximum freelancers demands.

 

You have no experience about Elance. Maximum freelancers there became sad to know about the merger.


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

All the rules should be a common ground for newbie to super experts. My proposals, that I wrote, meets maximum freelancers demands.

 

You have no experience about Elance. Maximum freelancers there became sad to know about the merger.


 Half of my projects were completed on Elance. By the way, you're late to the whining party, they drank the wine and occasionnaly whine. That is, you either adapt or simply move on.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

I support for a common rules which will meet evryone's minimum requirements. I am telling that if any client's budget is 900 USD, and you are fit for it, you will go with that. And if any client's budget is 100 USD, and someone "X" is fit for it, he or she will go with it. I am just opposing the present rule of that when client declares that budget is 900 USD, and someone asks to do that with 10 USD.

 

What is your problem with the proposal? If you think yourself worthy of 900 USD project, you will do it.


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

Who are you to telll me to move somewhere else? Are you the owner of UpWork?

 


 No, I am not the owner, but I sure bet it would be fun.


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

Who are you to telll me to move somewhere else? Are you the owner of UpWork?

 

I support for a common rules which will meet evryone's minimum requirements. I am telling that if any client's budget is 900 USD, and you are fit for it, you will go with that. And if any client's budget is 100 USD, and someone "X" is fit for it, he or she will go with it. I am just opposing the present rule of that when client declares that budget is 900 USD, and someone asks to do that with 10 USD.

 

What is your problem with the proposal? If you think yourself worthy of 900 USD project, you will do it.


This is what you're not understanding and I'm not trying to be mean, but many here have already stated as such.

 

This is a global platform, open bidding market, freelancers can bid what they want.  If they want to devalue themselves by bidding $10 on a $900 project, let them.  If the client wants to take their chances with that freelancer, let them. Did you know that there are freelancers that even offer to do their first project for free?  

 

This is no concern to you, don't worry about it. Worry about running your business and highlighthing your skills and let the bottom feeders sink because most of the time they do.  

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

UpWork is registered in USA. There in manyStates, and in maximum countries of this world the Law ensures minimum wages or minimum salary. 10 USD is standard rate for minimum. Anyone can work 30 hours in UpWork per week means 300 USD per week. That provides minimum level of living standard for a human being. So, not from my personal view, I proposed that thinking from global perspective.

Minimum wages only apply if you work for a business. We do not work for Upwork. Upwork does not employ us. We work for ourselves. We are our own business. What we choose to pay ourselves is nobody else's business. I pay myself more than $10 per hour. 

 

As you mention Elance: no, I did not work on Elance. I chose not to. I chose Odesk. My reasons are my own and have nothing to do with anyone else. But seeing your brought Elance up - the transition phase is long over and done with. If you were late to the party, that is too bad. Bringing up Elance so late in the game is meaningless. It has been talked about, hashed and rehashed, many times over. I could bring up Odesk and give it the same accolades. There were many. I choose not to do so. What is the point? It no longer exists.

 

What is left?

 

You can either choose to make this platform work for you or not. You can choose to stay or find another forum to ply your trade. That is basically the bottom line. 

I am telling that if any client's budget is 900 USD, and you are fit for it, you will go with that. And if any client's budget is 100 USD, and someone "X" is fit for it, he or she will go with it. I am just opposing the present rule of that when client declares that budget is 900 USD, and someone asks to do that with 10 USD. It decreases revenue of both freelancers and UpWork.

 

Even in business or self-employment, there must be some protectection.

 

 


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

I am telling that if any client's budget is 900 USD, and you are fit for it, you will go with that. And if any client's budget is 100 USD, and someone "X" is fit for it, he or she will go with it. I am just opposing the present rule of that when client declares that budget is 900 USD, and someone asks to do that with 10 USD. It decreases revenue of both freelancers and UpWork.

 

Even in business or self-employment, there must be some protectection.

 

 


What if I bid $1000? Will I be allowed to apply or not?

 

Look, the problem isn't Upwork. We've read the same kind of story over and over again and it all boils down to how you evolve with the platform. 

 

It's usually a freelancer who thinks the system needs to change for them, not caring about the majority who have perfected their freelancing style on the platform as it is. They usually mask this attitude with statements claiming the platform would be "much better" if they took the suggestions seriously. 

 

But hey, I'm just some random guy from a third world country. What do I know?

If I stated that I'll pay $1000 to have a service and somebody comes to me and say "I can do it for $100. The result will be as good as those who will charged you $900. Here's the proof.".

 

Should I declined?

  • "No thanks! You have the all the proof to back up your claim. But I have $1k to spend."
  • "Nah.. You have the all the proof to back up your claim. But I'm rich. I'm going to the one who offered me $1.5k"

    I dont like somebody else telling me how to use my money. "No, you cant hire that cheap contractor, you should use at least 75-80% of your budget." 
Grammar nazis - Cakap Melayu la kalau terer sangat. Takat bahasa Inggeris boleh la nak eksyen.

Like others have said, what you are earning at Upwork is not "wages" so no "minimum wage" applies. And every country has different minimum wages. You keep saying that because Upwork is in the USA then they should apply the USA minimum wage and also keep saying this is $10/hr. The federally mandated minimum wage in the USA is $7.25/hr, although some states are higher. Upwork are based in California, where the minimum wage is $10/hr, so technically I guess your statement of "$10/hr" is correct but I doubt you actually researched it. Here's my source: link. However, you're in Bangladesh according to your profile, so US law doesn't apply to you. In Bangladesh, according to Wikipedia, the minimum wage is 1,500 taka a month, which is around US$19 a month. So about 2 hours of work at the US minimum wage is a whole month of work at the Bangladeshi minimum wage.

 

All this is to say that the "minimum wage" / "minimum hourly rate" / "minimum fixed price bid" debate has been raised over and over again. What you are saying is not new or revolutionary. And it has been shot down again and again.

 

You choose your own rate. You bid on jobs that are in the range you are interested in. You don't compete with bottom feeders. You find clients that will pay for the value you bring them. And you bring those clients value so they come back for more and give you good feedback, which in turn helps you find more clients. That is how you succeed at Upwork - by making the best use possible of the system. Not by insisting that the system should change to suit you.

Are you a freelancer or a client? If you are a freelancer, and if there is a minimum charge, what's your problem?

 

As UpWork is registered in USA, should follow US law. Freelancers from other parts of the world when work with USA company are bound to follow US law. So, the the rate will be applicable to all inside USA or outside.

 

Anyway, I never mentioned it as minimum wage as we are not stuff of UpWork. Both freelancer and clients are independent here. But to ensure a fair competition, there must be a safety check of minimum service charge. I hate monopoly. **Edited for Community Guidelines**


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

(...)

 

As UpWork is registered in USA, should follow US law.


They do.

 

And minimal wages in the US only apply to employees, not to independent contractors.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
anima9
Member

This thread reminds me of Irene's "mindsets" 

 

The way I see it, these people suffer from a disease called "entitlement."

I simply find any discussion of minimum wage to be misplaced here on Upwork. I don't doubt the sincerity of posters whom bring it up. But they do not understand what Upwork is really about, and they do not seem to understand the difference between wages and the business-to-business service fees that are paid through this platform.

 

If any country actually wanted to apply minimum wage laws to freelancers working on the platform, it would be a simple matter for Upwork to comply by blocking that country's residents from working as contractors on the platform.

 "If any country actually wanted to apply minimum wage laws to freelancers working on the platform, it would be a simple matter for Upwork to comply by blocking that country's residents from working as contractors on the platform."

 

: Then know that the United States of America has this type of law, and UpWork is a USA company. I brought up this discussion to ensure a fair competition.

 

I know very well that UpWork is a business platform, but who wants to do a job of 900 USD within only 10 USD is obviously a Spammer. These type of Spammers are threat to both UpWork and Freelancer's revenue. To check them Elance had the limitation  system. For example, if any client's budget is 100 USD, no freelancer could not bid less than 70 USD. That was a fair competition. That elance was merged with oDesk to form UpWork. I am just talking to bring that old system back again.

 

 

 

 

 

 


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

 "If any country actually wanted to apply minimum wage laws to freelancers working on the platform, it would be a simple matter for Upwork to comply by blocking that country's residents from working as contractors on the platform."

 

: Then know that the United States of America has this type of law, and UpWork is a USA company. I brought up this discussion to ensure a fair competition.

 

I know very well that UpWork is a business platform, but who wants to do a job of 900 USD within only 10 USD is obviously a Spammer. These type of Spammers are threat to both UpWork and Freelancer's revenue. To check them Elance had the limitation  system. For example, if any client's budget is 100 USD, no freelancer could not bid less than 70 USD. That was a fair competition. That elance was merged with oDesk to form UpWork. I am just talking to bring that old system back again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wasn't with Elance long and only had a couple of clients there, but if my memory serves me right you actually could bid lower than that minimum but your level would take a hit.  

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

My information is 100% correct. In Elance, for example

 

# Client's Budget: 100 - 300 USD, then Freelancer's minimum bid: 70 USD and maximum Unlimited

# Client's Budget: 200 - 220 USD, then Freelancer's minimum bid: 140 USD and maximum Unlimited

# Client's Budget: 900 - 950 USD, then Freelancer's minimum bid: 630 USD and maximum Unlimited

# Client's Budget: 1500 - 300 USD, then Freelancer's minimum bid: 1050 USD and maximum Unlimited

# Client's Budget: 30 - 500 USD, then Freelancer's minimum bid: 21 USD and maximum Unlimited

 

maximum was unlimited, even 100 million USD !!


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

My information is 100% correct....

 


Tawhidur,

 

I don't believe so. My recollection matches Katrina's: Underbidding was "enforced" via the Elance stats/levels system, not by actually blocking the bids.

 

Please note the language on the page posted by Christina P: While bids below $3 were "not allowed," "Proposals under the stated range are considered a proposal under budget"—specifically, a ding on one's stats.

 

Best,

Michael

Hello,

My client budget is $200 USD so i can bid $140 to $190 USD then the project is mine or no. 


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:
To check them Elance had the limitation  system. For example, if any client's budget is 100 USD, no freelancer could not bid less than 70 USD. That was a fair competition. That elance was merged with oDesk to form UpWork. I am just talking to bring that old system back again.

 

 


 This WAS Elance's own proposal minimums:

Screenshot_3.jpg

 

Source HERE.

 

Stop guessing about Elance because you're obviously no expert and the information provided is false. Again, this was Elance, Upwork is a whole different story. You are in denial.

 

 

As Elance is a defunct case since long ago, so memory may play tricks. But "Proposals minimum 70%" information was 100% right.

 

I told the same thing,

# if client's budget is minimum $500, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $350

 

# if client's budget is minimum $1,000, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $700

 

# if client's budget is minimum $5000, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $3500

 

# if client's budget is minimum $10,000, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $7000

 

Even the Elance says "For Hourly jobs, proposals can be submitted at 70% of posted Hourly range. Proposals under $3 an hour are not allowed."

 

So you proved my opinion that there was a safety check against spammer freelancer. I just want it here, AND TO ANY RANGE OF AMOUNT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A spammer is a spammer minimums or no minimums.  You could make the minimum $10 per hour, yes, but then the same spammers are going to bid $10 per hour even if their skills don't command $10 an hour.  The spammers are here to stay.  Some fall off each day and there's another batch in the waiting to take their place.  You have to find a way to beat them and it's not by trying to change whatever policies, features or whatever Upwork has in place.  

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"


@Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

As Elance is a defunct case since long ago, so memory may play tricks. But "Proposals minimum 70%" information was 100% right.

 

I told the same thing,

# if client's budget is minimum $500, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $350

 

# if client's budget is minimum $1,000, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $700

 

# if client's budget is minimum $5000, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $3500

 

# if client's budget is minimum $10,000, freelancer can offer 70% of it - $7000

 

Even the Elance says "For Hourly jobs, proposals can be submitted at 70% of posted Hourly range. Proposals under $3 an hour are not allowed."

 

So you proved my opinion that there was a safety check against spammer freelancer. I just want it here, AND TO ANY RANGE OF AMOUNT.

 

 

 

 

 

 



 No dear,

 

I did not prove anything. Give it a rest. Elance was Elance, Upwork is different. You're oh so late to the party.


Tawhidur Rahman D wrote:

 I know very well that UpWork is a business platform, but who wants to do a job of 900 USD within only 10 USD is obviously a Spammer. These type of Spammers are threat to both UpWork and Freelancer's revenue.  


Eh, you've posted this example over and over again... Here's a novel concept: you don't compete with these people. 

 

Best course of action: let it go and focus on making your own service worth its salt.