First Job Problem.

[ayadokhana]

Hello everyone,

I'm a new translator at Upwork and I have just applied at my first job. The client has agreed with me that the project will be divided into 3 milestones from the beginning. Then, after working on the files and submitting the first milestone, I asked him to accept the payment request and fund the next milestone so I can submit the next files, but he didn't.

Mind you that, in the translation instructions, there is a mention that I have to upload the files to the drive once I finish them because there are two people who are supposed to review my work.

He then was frustrated that I did not upload all files to the Drive once I finished them, and accused me that I delayed his work, but I was ready to send it asap if he funded the milestones. I told him that he has to accept and fund the next milestones first and that I stick to Upwork's TOS and respect them. but anyways he will undoubtedly give me lousy feedback, and it would be my first one.

My question is, would Upwork be considerate of the feedback the client will give?

Also, I want to open a ticket to share any screenshots and other information. May someone help me, please.

Thank you in advance.

[lysis10]

No, Upwork doesn't meddle in your poor deals. Breaking up small jobs into milestones is a mistake. You will just have to soldier through the poor feedback and make better decisions in the future. It's growing pains of freelancing I suppose.

[prestonhunter]

Jennifer is right.

There is ALL KINDS OF ADVICE that you can get here in the Forum.

We are a chatty bunch. You can ask lots of questions and get lots of tips on how to manage things.

But ultimately YOU manage things. YOU make decisions.

You will not be involving Upwork Customer Service in your projects.

[ayadokhana]

Thank you for replying. I was just confused as this is my very first job here. I did not know what would be best to do; whether to do the project by milestones, or as a whole.

The client has set the contract milestones from the beginning, and the work turns out to be more than we agreed to do, so it was all right to divide it to milestones.

My only concern is that the client is not satisfied; although I did my job as agreed, and I have nothing more to offer except to wait for him to fund the next milestones.

[petra_r]

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Aya A wrote:

I have nothing more to offer except to wait for him to fund the next milestones.

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Correct. Just stay calm and friendly and professional and wait for the milestone to be funded.

Personally I do smaller translations (a few hundreds of Dollars) as one milestone for exactly this reason. 

[ayadokhana]

Thank you for replying.

[petra_r]

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Aya A wrote:

Also, I want to open a ticket to share any screenshots and other information.

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No, you don't. You're not at school. You are running a business, and that includes managing your contracts and your clients.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Petra R wrote:

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Aya A wrote:

Also, I want to open a ticket to share any screenshots and other information.

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No, you don't. You're not at school. You are running a business, and that includes managing your contracts and your clients.

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Quite. You can't go running to Upwork and tell them that your client is a bad client - it's not up to them to make your client behave. The client is your client, not Upwork's client. 

And if you told the client that you're already finished the work but you're refusing to share it with them until they pay, that sounds a bit silly. The way to manage milestone contracts is that you shouldn't even start working on the next milestone until it's funded. If the client decided to end the project at this point - which he has every right to do - then you will have done the second milestone for free.

[tlbp · Accepted solution]

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Aya A wrote:

Hello everyone,

I'm a new translator at Upwork and I have just applied at my first job. The client has agreed with me that the project will be divided into 3 milestones from the beginning. Then, after working on the files and submitting the first milestone, I asked him to accept the payment request and fund the next milestone so I can submit the next files, but he didn't.

Mind you that, in the translation instructions, there is a mention that I have to upload the files to the drive once I finish them because there are two people who are supposed to review my work.

He then was frustrated that I did not upload all files to the Drive once I finished them, and accused me that I delayed his work, but I was ready to send it asap if he funded the milestones. I told him that he has to accept and fund the next milestones first and that I stick to Upwork's TOS and respect them. but anyways he will undoubtedly give me lousy feedback, and it would be my first one.

My question is, would Upwork be considerate of the feedback the client will give?

Also, I want to open a ticket to share any screenshots and other information. May someone help me, please.

Thank you in advance.

---

Has the client worked with other freelancers? What does the client's history of hiring and reviews look like? It is possible that they know that only funded milestones can be claimed by the freelancer in a dispute and have no intention of paying you any more. They may be counting on your fear of a bad review to get the rest of the work free of charge.

However, you can't know that. So, treat the client as if they have the best of intentions and plan to pay you. Then, stick to the rules and insist on each milestone being funded before you hand over the work. 

Many new freelancers come here with tales of not being paid and getting bad reviews because those freelancers took a job before fully understanding how payments, milestones and other parts of the Upwork system work. Check out the New to Upwork community forum under the Community Discussions to find out what to study and how others have handled similar situations. 

[ayadokhana]

Thank you, Tonya, for your helpful reply. 

The client is new as well; he has worked with a couple of translators for his project, and currently, he's working on many contracts. He actually told me that I'm the first translator out of the 30 he hired that follows this, and no one is saying that I can't upload the files on the Drive first. He said that this is my choice; while I was trying to stick to Upwork's rules.

Anyways, I will do as you said, and thank you so much again. Much appreciated.

[ashrafkhan81]

As a beginner you have to be little accommodative of client's request until you establish good profile in terms of earnings and feedback.

But that does not mean compromising your values, standards and Upwork ToS.  I do not think there is any rule that prevents you from sharing the work with client outside Upwork, As long as you get paid on Upwork, it is fine. 

I think it was just a little misunderstanding on your part and probably little insecurity about not being paid. You also mentioned, the client had hired more people on upwork, so you should have looked at Freelancer's feedback about him. 

Since the file was already sent to the client by way of work submission on active milestone, I do not think you gained anything by not uploading it to the drive. There was no fear of losing money or not being paid, he already had the work and request you to share a copy for his colleague. He did not ask you to do additional work before the 2nd milestone was funded. The review process involved two people and it was communicated to you beforehand. You should not have insisted on activating the 2nd milestone, the reviews on the 1st one was still pending. 

Best of Luck! 

[petra_r]

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Ashraf K wrote:

I do not think there is any rule that prevents you from sharing the work with client outside Upwork, As long as you get paid on Upwork, it is fine. 

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This has nothing to do with "sharing the work outside of Upwork". This has to do with not handing over work against milestones that are not funded.

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Ashraf K wrote:

I think it was just a little misunderstanding on your part

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Nope. She didn't misunderstand anything, at all. You, however, did.

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Ashraf K wrote:

He did not ask you to do additional work before the 2nd milestone was funded. 

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The client asked for the entire work (all milestones) to be handed over with only one milestone having been funded. That's a recipe for not getting paid.

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Ashraf K wrote:

The review process involved two people and it was communicated to you beforehand.

Fine. So the client can take their sweet tie to review milestone 1 - but the work for milestone 2 and 3 won't be forthcoming until milestone 2 is funded. That is how Upwork works.

[ayadokhana]

I understand this.

However, there is a difference between being accommodative for the sake of feedbacks and lessening my efforts and my work. I'm still working on balancing both things.

As Petra understood, the issue has to do with not handing over work against milestones that are not funded, yet. I preassume everything; that the client is busy, or he does not want to pay. In both cases, I learnt that I should think about any offer before setting it.

There was no feedback from the couple of translators he worked with. That's why I didn't know. Anyways, thank you for replying and for your advice, sir.

[jojomo]

Aya,

Some clients simply don't know how the platform works especially when they're new... so its as much their responsibility as it is yours to stick to the rules. Sometimes I find it helpful to guide them and explain how things work if it looks like they are confused. Then again, sometimes they get offended when you try to "teach them" so I would just say, use your best judgment. 

The contract is between you and the client and Upwork will not interfere with any feedback even if it is unfair for either / both parties... with time and experience you will learn who to work with and who not to work with. I've turned down many jobs based solely on my intuition from having had bad experiences in the past and it has served me well up to this point.

Oh and to all you "expert" freelancers giving her attitude with your advice (i won't mention any names), cut it out.... remember you were once a beginner on this platform as well, you don't need to get on your high horse and give the newbies attitude. You may be a successful freelancer on this platform but that doesn't give you the right to speak to these people with such contempt.

Best of luck Aya.

[gina-herrera]

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Joëlle O wrote:

Oh and to all you "expert" freelancers giving her attitude with your advice (i won't mention any names), cut it out.... remember you were once a beginner on this platform as well, you don't need to get on your high horse and give the newbies attitude. You may be a successful freelancer on this platform but that doesn't give you the right to speak to these people with such contempt.

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I hardly think telling a grown adult that she needs to figure out how manage her own business rather than having someone else sort it out for her is contempt. If you are responsible enough to start a business, you need to understand how the site works, how freelancing works, and your own duties and responsibilities. And everyone is offering CONSTRUCTIVE advice on how to do that.

[ayadokhana]

Thank you, Joëlle, for your help and support. Much appreciated, really.

I, indeed, thought that he does not know how to deal with things as he's new as well, but there was another chance that he does not want to pay me.

I tried to clarify things and told him how the work is supposed to go more than once, but instead of mentioning anything about my payment, he insisted on repeating that there are two types of translators, and he wanted me to abide by HIS rules, not mine (which are not mine at all).

As for other experts with attitude, I don't take it personally. I know it's all about work. I actually prefer to learn from peoples' constructive critiques, like you. And if other people see themselves superior to me, with all my due respect, I do not care; I said I'm new to Upwork, not to the career. I know my worth. However, this is their place, so they think they can speak in any manner. I understand that; I also understand that most people lose their sense of tolerance in business, and that's totally fine. I don't care as long as they give me advice or an answer to my question.

Thank you, Joëlle, again so much.

[feed_my_eyes]

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Aya A wrote:

He actually told me that I'm the first translator out of the 30 he hired that follows this, and no one is saying that I can't upload the files on the Drive first. He said that this is my choice; while I was trying to stick to Upwork's rules.

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Your client's point of view is that he wants to make sure that your work is completed properly before he releases the payment, whereas your point of view is that you want to make sure you're paid before you hand over all of the files. So, it's a stand-off. If your client has good reviews from previous freelancers, then I would be inclined to trust him and try to de-escalate this by giving him the files.

[gina-herrera]

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Christine A wrote:

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Your client's point of view is that he wants to make sure that your work is completed properly before he releases the payment, whereas your point of view is that you want to make sure you're paid before you hand over all of the files. So, it's a stand-off. If your client has good reviews from previous freelancers, then I would be inclined to trust him and try to de-escalate this by giving him the files.

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In this scenario I might even be inclined to do what he asks even if he doesn't have any reviews yet, at the very beginning of your career here it is probably more important to preserve feedback than it is to make money. It's unfortunate but once you have some positive reviews and a good JSS under your belt you can be more selective about customer requests. Unfortunately it might be too late in this situation since he already is annoyed, but good luck I hope it works out

[al_hayes]

Hi,

New to Upwork here too so probably talking slightly out of place but I really don't like the tone of the replies to this freelancer. In the few weeks that I have been here I have already faced a similar issue with one small client. Fortunately, I have been dealing with it because, yes, I believe it is mostly my responsibility to deal with any client, not Upwork's. This is a great platform for us to be able to conduct our business accordingly.

However, the job score/rating/feedback thing.... I think this possibly needs some more work and more discussion. It reminds me too much of Black Mirror Season 3 Episode 1... Please take a look at it if you're curious.

Just food for thought really, sorry for not helping out the original freelancer any more. I guess it may well be a case of survival of the fittest, or in this case, luckiest.....?

Al.

[ayadokhana]

Hi AI, thank you for your kind contribution.

In fact, I am currently handling the situation. My question was that would Upwork consider if the client gave me lousy feedback or not regarding what happened, and people answered me that it will not meddle.

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Al H wrote:

 sorry for not helping out the original freelancer any more.

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Not at all! I actually learned from the replies. One has to adapt anyways.

Thanks, again, and best of luck for you.

[al_hayes]

Thanks Aya, you too! And make sure you check out that Black Mirror episode I mentioned. 🙂

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTbbSZg4A3k