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Fraud Client *Edited*, I need Help !

Hi Upwork Community Team,

Please read my comments and see the attachment !

I got cheated from a client name **Edited for Community Guidelines** , First he asked me to work on outside the Upwork and I told him to hire me on Upwork. He Negotiate my hourly price and hired me, He told me that he will have number of tasks to do so I told him that before every task I ll give him the hours estimate, he agreed and I gave him Homepage design estimate of 10 hours. When I completed homepage design and he give me good feedback and finalized it and told me that do html and implement it on his shopify website.  

 

He just gave me 10 hours weekly limit even I ask 20/week (he told me he ll increase later on), When I told him to increase hourly limit as before moving to development he himself enabled manual hours and told me that to work on simultaneously on design and development and logged manual hours.

My developer worked on manually done some part of work,  suddenly he disabled the manual hours before we logged in and told me that he ll take care of it, you can work with Upwork clock for further tasks. 

After that we worked with clock and he told he need that task completed before Sunday, which I did and asked me for estimate of further tasks on Monday. Suddenly he ended the contract and putted the 30 hours  dispute (total of the week) and gave the Irrelevant reasons to Upwork support team,  He never showed any little concern about all the reasons he mentioned in dispute. Even he was very happy with total work and giving me comments like "Awesome" "Great Work" etc etc. 

In his second dispute comment he mentioned I approached him for outside Upwork, Fortunately I have Upwork chat where he is asking me for outside Upwork. I shared all the proofs in Dispute. 

I didnt get any response from Upwork dispute team and just wondering that "Is Upwork favoring to client all the time?" I have 8+ year experience in Upwork and never had this kind of experience, I have agency account and 100% success rate. The client have joined Upwork on July 2017. 

I just want and request to  Upwork Support team  that please go through Our Chat History and saw the attached proofs. 

The client is not standing in his dispute comments  and changing after one another. 

I want to strongly maintain my Trust on Upwork. 

Please HELP me. 

Thanks

 

 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Harminder,

 

I see you already have a support ticket about this issue and our Dispute team will be contacting you separately if you and your client are unable to resolve the dispute on your own. Posting names, chat transcripts and private information is not allowed here in the Community.

 

I'd also like to reiterate that agency freelancers have to be hired on a separate contract and can't log time on each other's contracts.

We encourage freelancers to review contract terms and ask the client to make adjustments if needed before accepting the offer.

~ Valeria
Upwork

View solution in original post

12 REPLIES 12
yitwail
Community Guru

Harminder, I don’t think you will get much help from Upwork because you used a “developer” and by Upwork rules all work must be done by the hired freelancer himself on an hourly job.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

Hi John,
Thanks for your reply.

I have a agency account and I am a Staff Manager. 
My Profile is designer (I did the whole design work ) however client approched me for development too and allowed me manual hours himself. 

Also client approching me for Outside Upwork before Hiring, please see attached on main message. 

Also he is lying in his dispute which proved in our Upwork chat history.

Still I ll not get my money?

please advice

The work done through the time tracker, as long as you were doing the work requested by the client and you wrote/changed memos as you worked and your activity levels were over a five on those screen shots- that work will be paid to you because it is guaranteed. Oh, and as long as your client had a verified payment method, which I'm guessing he did.

The manual time will probably be refunded to the client because manual time (or time tracker screenshots with low activity levels or without meaningful memos) doesn't qualify for payment protection.

Anyway, I hope it all works out for the best.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Harminder,

 

I see you already have a support ticket about this issue and our Dispute team will be contacting you separately if you and your client are unable to resolve the dispute on your own. Posting names, chat transcripts and private information is not allowed here in the Community.

 

I'd also like to reiterate that agency freelancers have to be hired on a separate contract and can't log time on each other's contracts.

We encourage freelancers to review contract terms and ask the client to make adjustments if needed before accepting the offer.

~ Valeria
Upwork

View solution in original post

Hi Valeria K

Thanks for your prompt response,

Hi Valeria K

Thank you for your reply
"Posting names, chat transcripts and private information is not allowed here in the Community."
Regarding this I am new to community and didn't knew, thanks for correcting me.

Yes I have support ticket and wiaiting positive response as I have submitted proofs.

Last question Regarding
"agency freelancers have to be hired on a separate contract and can't log time on each other's contracts."

The Logged hours with clock is done by me only and the client told me  to add manual hours of developer.

is it under Upwork policies ?
Thanks

Harminder,

 

Users aren't allowed to log into each other's accounts and time (automatic or manual) can only be loogged by the person who does the work on the contract.

~ Valeria
Upwork

 Valeria K


Thank you for your Valuable information.
I really appreciate  !

 

Thanks

@Harminder:

 

I have not worked much on Upwork, but let me share general impression. In Upwork world client is the king. 

1. Never work on hourly contract with manual entry - you have zero protection.  If client gives you 10/hr per week just work 10 hours.  Why do you care if the project is not finished?

2. Fixed price contracts in general are useless. Clients have habbit  of changing the goal post and squeeze more work out of you.  In my case one of them paid for one (very promptly.)  For the second he threatened that "Unless I do this and that' he won't release funds.  It was a major milestone.  Even if you do fixed price break it down in as little little chunks as possible.  That way you are not out of too much time.  Upwork dispute resolution is a joke.  Basically they are just a postman relaying your info and client info back and forth.  Upwork will always favor the client (remember there are millions of freelancers but not that many clients).  In the end if client is stubborn there is nothing they will do.  They will suggest an arbitration service that costs arm and a leg.

3. Never give out the work in progress to client.  In my case that guy wanted to buy my work for the existing milestone price.  I had more time invested  so I refused.  Of course,I did take a major hit in my rating.

You're 100% correct on point #1.

 

However, for fixed price, I think it probably depends on the type of work performed. As a voice-over professional, I work almost exclusively in fixed price. For one, that is the industry standard. We have prices on what we do, and for how much. For certain things, like editing, the pricing is often hourly, but for straight VO reads, it's generally, "here's what I'll do, and it'll cost you $XX." 

 

Hourly is, for these types of jobs, a massive pain in the neck, and I generally won't agree to it. It's too hard to know what I'll be getting paid for a job, and WAY too easy to get paid FAR less than what the job is worth. If I'm willing to do a 60-second read for $60, it's not the client's concern if it only takes me ten minutes to do so. On top of that, adjusting my hourly rate to reflect what the job is worth vs the time it takes me to do it would be a huge shock to most clients (in this example, say $360 an hour), and the sticker shock alone would be enough to put them off entirely. 

This is because, ultimately, most clients don't KNOW how much time it actually takes, and every read is different -- which means while I can offer a solid guess as to how long it'll take, I can't know for sure until it's actually done. 

 

Now, again, I'm sure it's different for every type of job -- but it's worth mentioning that pay-per-product is actually often a very GOOD way to do business. You just have to know how to manage client expectations, and keep good records of communication in the event there IS a dispute. 

 

(FTR, from what I'm learning here, it sounds like said disputes are a LOT more prevalant in the design sector than in VO... I've never dealt with one.)


@Randy S wrote:

You're 100% correct on point #1.

 

---------

 

(FTR, from what I'm learning here, it sounds like said disputes are a LOT more prevalant in the design sector than in VO... I've never dealt with one.)


 That could be very true....In your space the project and its outcome is clearly defined. In the web design space the boundaries are bit fuzzy.  It is not always easy to draft a contract with every t and i crossed.  In real worldI have built in those fuzziness in my price.  On Upwork it is not possible.  I am competing with $5/hr folks.  In addition in the real outside world I am always ahead of the game by a step - before I start a contract I require a down payment while on upwork I am always behind a step.  This is reverse of how the real world operates.  You buy something online-You pay first.  Oc course you can return it, but it requires effort and you are dealing with tangible 'stuff'.  On upwork one sells only intangible stuff.  If you know how to play the game you can screw every free lancer you hire and still get the 'stuff'.

 

Yes the free lancer would leave negative feed back, but since the jobs are not so ample - others will jump.  Also it is easy to create new accounts and post new jobs without penalty.

 

Hi Prashant,

 

Thanks for your reply,  Your comments are really meaningfull and I ll definitly take care in future.

 

Harminder

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