Freelancer Plus - Don't Do It!!

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Reminder: The new Freelancer Plus pricing structure is extremely exploitative. Don't use it. Previously, all the non-connects benefits were essentially bonuses on top of you paying for additional connects at value. Now, the value of the additional connects you're getting is $10.50, and you're paying $4.50 a month on top of that for less benefits than you were getting before for free.

When I first saw this, I assumed it had to be a mistake. I'm honestly not certain it isn't still.
I've talked to probably a dozen Upwork staff members at this point about it. Most of them, including Lena E here in the forums, seem unfamiliar with the actual math and seem to think it's still tied to the value of the connects, or that the benefits haven't changed. The couple that were familiar, however, essentially admitted that it's exploitation completely without justification. I assume it's primarily to take advantage of new users who aren't familiar with the previous system.

renoratino05 · ‎07-17-2019

I have the same sentiments here, I upgraded to Freelancer Plus to take an advantage of 3 invites limitation, I already spent $12 for another 80 connects but nothing positive happened, I haven't received any invites and the saddest part is there are a lot of job postings which are not accessible when we bought the connects.

petra_r · ‎07-17-2019

Jocelie A wrote:
I have the same sentiments here, I upgraded to Freelancer Plus to take an advantage of 3 invites limitation,

you what?

You appear to be mixing up the Plus Plan for freelancers and the Plus Plan for clients, the latter allowing clients to invite more than 3 freelancers for any given job post.

Taking out the Plus Plan as a freelancer has absolutely NO effect on receiving invites in any way, shape or form and Upwork does not claim anywhere that it does.

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

What Petra said 🙂

petra_r · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan, I really don't understand why you are so furious.

It would appear that you are mostly upset that everyone can now buy extra connects and saw that as the main benefit?
I think the majority of people who took out the plan have never bought a single connect (I sure as hell know I never have...) so for them the convenience was what attracted them, rather than the ability to buy connects.

Personally, I am a bit perplexed that you actually spend such an extraordinary amount of time (a bunch of posts, raging at staff) on something so inconsequential as a $ 15 plan which you are free to cancel at any time...

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Hi Petra,

I'm absolutely not upset that everyone can buy connects now -- I think the new connects pricing structure in general is vastly improved actually.

I certainly don't know the connects-buying habits of other people, so regardless of whether that was the most important benefit, it is a missing benefit and no new ones have been added.

I don't view it as inconsequential when an organization (that has a history of making exploitative changes and decisions at the expense of freelancers) makes one as blatantly exploitative as this. I think it's my duty to warn freelancers who might not be aware, and anyone I can convince not to give the **Edited for Community Guidelines** freelancer plus monthly payment to Upwork is good work in my book.

joansands · ‎07-17-2019

You know, Dylan, there are lots of freelancers on Upwork who are perfectly able to think for themselves and they do not need you to lead them around by the hand. Speaking for myself, I love the Freelancer Plus option and intend to keep on using it.

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Hi Joan,

It's perfectly fine that you're happy being exploited by Upwork, but my sense is that many freelancers are not aware of this math (and new freelancers would have no way to be familiar with the old system). I don't understand why you're coming here to criticize me for giving people information.

joansands · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan - I made a comment for you because I disagree with you and I do not feel I am being exploited by Upwork. Quite the contrary - and I believe you are promoting falsehoods. You also seem to think that the average freelancer on Upwork is a moron and can't think for him or herself.

feed_my_eyes · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:

I don't view it as inconsequential when an organization (that has a history of making exploitative changes and decisions at the expense of freelancers) makes one as blatantly exploitative as this.

I think that it was a questionable marketing decision to offer something called a "plus" plan when it offers laughably few benefits, but I fail to see how anyone is being exploited, since it's entirely optional?

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

It's specifically the relationship between it and the old plus plan. It's exploitative in that it's now charging $4.50 a month for benefits that were previously free, while removing one of those benefits and adding zero new ones. It's particularly exploitative of new freelancers who likely aren't aware (and frankly, a lot of folks aren't gonna do the math either to figure out how much worse it is than the old plan).

BojanS · ‎07-17-2019

Hi All,

A few posts have been removed from this thread for Community Guidelines. We encourage our Community members to be professional and respectful to one another when posting here. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and avoid making personal attacks.

Thank you.

~ Bojan

m_terrazas · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:
It's specifically the relationship between it and the old plus plan. It's exploitative in that it's now charging $4.50 a month for benefits that were previously free, while removing one of those benefits and adding zero new ones. It's particularly exploitative of new freelancers who likely aren't aware (and frankly, a lot of folks aren't gonna do the math either to figure out how much worse it is than the old plan).

Exploitative?? Come on!!

There are many freelancers who are not aware of this, and of everything else.
There are many freelancers who do not bother to read the help, the pop-ups that have been appearing, the different threads in the forums, etc ...
Basically, there are many freelancers who throw themselves headlong without having the remotest idea of what is in the bottom of the pond, and then, what happens happens.

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Don't quite understand the point you're making. I feel like you're reiterating my point -- I'm trying to inform freelancers who might not be diving into every detail.

m_terrazas · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:
Don't quite understand the point you're making. I feel like you're reiterating my point -- I'm trying to inform freelancers who might not be diving into every detail.

Dylan, I do not know if you are answering me (it is better if you use "quote" to know who you answer), If so:

As I told you, there are many freelancers who DO NOT READ anything.
And I'm afraid that they will not read this, no matter how good is your intend.

And I do not know what it has to do with "exploitative".

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan, I do not know if you are answering me (it is better if you use "quote" to know who you answer), If so:
As I told you, there are many freelancers who DO NOT READ anything.
And I'm afraid that they will not read this, no matter how good is your intend.
And I do not know what it has to do with "exploitative".

Ah thanks! Not super familiar with the forums, so assumed "reply" would make it clear it was a reply, but I see now that that doesn't do anything to the appearance of my comment. Appreciate the help!

Of course there will be many who never read anything. Still, having this information out there for those who do and may not be aware is a positive! Really not sure what point you're making.

In terms of exploitative, I'm happy to explain more about how the new system is exploitative, charging $4.50 a month for benefits that were previously free while removing a major part of those benefits.. Is there something specific I can help with there?

m_terrazas · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:

Ah thanks! Not super familiar with the forums, so assumed "reply" would make it clear it was a reply, but I see now that that doesn't do anything to the appearance of my comment. Appreciate the help!

Of course there will be many who never read anything. Still, having this information out there for those who do and may not be aware is a positive! Really not sure what point you're making.

In terms of exploitative, I'm happy to explain more about how the new system is exploitative, charging $4.50 a month for benefits that were previously free while removing a major part of those benefits.. Is there something specific I can help with there?

You are welcome!
Regarding charging $ 4.50 more per month for what was previously free, now they charge $ 0.15 for connects that were previously free 🙂

And I still think that calling this "exploitative" is disproportionate, to say the least.

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

You are welcome!
Regarding charging $ 4.50 more per month for what was previously free, now they charge $ 0.15 for connects that were previously free 🙂
And I still think that calling this "exploitative" is disproportionate, to say the least.

Connects weren't previously free, they were $1.00/connect (after the basic plan's 60). I really don't understand how one could not view the freelancer plus pricing change as exploitative. Previously, it was $10, equal to the value of the 10 extra connects, plus a set of bonus benefits. Now it's $15, $4.50 more than the value of the 70 connects, plus a smaller/less helpful set of bonus benefits.

petra_r · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:
In terms of exploitative, I'm happy to explain more about how the new system is exploitative, charging $4.50 a month

Yes, I feel totally exploited considering I have to work over one whole minute a week more to be able to afford it.

Outrageous, indeed

Most people never bought connects at $ 1 - those who had to were mostly either spamming or farming out work.

I have never managed to use up any of the "free" ones in the many years I have been here.

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Petra, congrats on making $250 an hour, I guess? Most folks don't. (Edit: Apologies, I read that as "a month", not "a week". Regardless, the point below stands).

Either way, not sure what the snark is about here. An extra $5.00 a month for less than was gotten before for free does affect a lot of freelancers. Why are you so adamantly supporting Upwork's exploitative practices?

And I bought hundreds of connects at that price over the years, while neither spamming nor farming out work, and getting a far-above-average response rate.

And again, that price just isn't really relevant. It's a simple equation. Whatever the value of the benefit, they removed it, didn't replace it, and are now charging $4.50 for less than you got before for free.

petra_r · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:
Whatever the value of the benefit, they removed it, didn't replace it, and are now charging $4.50 for less than you got before for free.

And you are free to take it or leave it.
Simples.

An entirely optional $ 4.50 more here or there is irrelevant. If you really want to get your panties in a twist take a look at Upwork charging clients a HELL of a lot more than $ 5 a month to keep what they had before, resulting in clients leaving.

Now THAT is a problem.

An entirely optional $ 4.50 more a month for plus plan freelancers is nothing.

Losing clients is

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

And you are free to take it or leave it.
Simples.

An entirely optional $ 4.50 more here or there is irrelevant. If you really want to get your panties in a twist take a look at Upwork charging clients a HELL of a lot more than $ 5 a month to keep what they had before, resulting in clients leaving.
Now THAT is a problem.

An entirely optional $ 4.50 more a month for plus plan freelancers is nothing.
Losing clients is

I certainly agree that that is a major problem! Doesn't mean the other thing isn't. I am indeed free to take it or leave it -- obviously, I am leaving it, and am posting here encouraging others to as well!

feed_my_eyes · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:

And I bought hundreds of connects at that price over the years, while neither spamming nor farming out work, and getting a far-above-average response rate.

So aren't you better off under the new system, since extra connects will only cost you 15 cents instead of $1? I'm not being snarky here, I genuinely don't understand why you feel that you're worse off.

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Christine A wrote:

Dylan G wrote:

And I bought hundreds of connects at that price over the years, while neither spamming nor farming out work, and getting a far-above-average response rate.

So aren't you better off under the new system, since extra connects will only cost you 15 cents instead of $1? I'm not being snarky here, I genuinely don't understand why you feel that you're worse off.

Christine A wrote:

Dylan G wrote:

And I bought hundreds of connects at that price over the years, while neither spamming nor farming out work, and getting a far-above-average response rate.

So aren't you better off under the new system, since extra connects will only cost you 15 cents instead of $1? I'm not being snarky here, I genuinely don't understand why you feel that you're worse off.

Appreciate the lack of snark (genuinely don't get some people's responses here, it's like they're **Edited for Community Guidelines** to snarkily and blindly defend Upwork). I am VERY much in favor of the new connects cost, variable contract connects bid prices, etc. I think all of those aspects of this update are great changes. Only part I think is exploitative is the new Freelancer Plus pricing, the portion of it above the value of the connects.

renoratino05 · ‎07-17-2019

I thought it would be an advantage for us freelancer plus to be able to participate or got an invites from Client Plus Plan "3 invites limitation", but I think it doesn't and it depends on the clients.

florydev · ‎07-17-2019

If I had not been on the plus plan my profile might have gone private, I would have not received an invite to a job, that last I checked has earned me $11k.
I am fine with being exploited by it for the near future but thanks for looking out for me!

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Mark F wrote:
If I had not been on the plus plan my profile might have gone private, I would have not received an invite to a job, that last I checked has earned me $11k.
I am fine with being exploited by it for the near future but thanks for looking out for me!

Happy to! Glad that you've found value in those benefits of the freelancer plus plan, and I'd hope as such that you would also be opposed to them exploitatively raising the price of them so significantly.

lysis10 · ‎07-17-2019

Mark F wrote:
If I had not been on the plus plan my profile might have gone private, I would have not received an invite to a job, that last I checked has earned me $11k.
I am fine with being exploited by it for the near future but thanks for looking out for me!

I'm sorry you're going through this. Stay strong!

r_satta · ‎07-17-2019

Dylan G wrote:
Reminder: The new Freelancer Plus pricing structure is extremely exploitative. Don't use it. Previously, all the non-connects benefits were essentially bonuses on top of you paying for additional connects at value. Now, the value of the additional connects you're getting is $10.50, and you're paying $4.50 a month on top of that for less benefits than you were getting before for free.

When I first saw this, I assumed it had to be a mistake. I'm honestly not certain it isn't still.
I've talked to probably a dozen Upwork staff members at this point about it. Most of them, including Lena E here in the forums, seem unfamiliar with the actual math and seem to think it's still tied to the value of the connects, or that the benefits haven't changed. The couple that were familiar, however, essentially admitted that it's exploitation completely without justification. I assume it's primarily to take advantage of new users who aren't familiar with the previous system.

I don't think it really is exploitative, it is just... well, useless for the most of freelancers. We have seen how they poorly realized the paid connects switch (still baffles me how I've been switched 2 months before half of my competitors). They surely just didn't think about the usefulness of their freelancer plus program after the snap (yeah, they are like Thanos, half of the people became paid-connects users while the other half remained the same).

Add edit: take advantage of new users... well, users who are not brain dead can easily see for themselves whether it's useful for them or not. They just need to read carefully, it's not about familiarity.

dylangarity · ‎07-17-2019

Add edit: take advantage of new users... well, users who are not brain dead can easily see for themselves whether it's useful for them or not. They just need to read carefully, it's not about familiarity.

Yeah, I noticed some weirdness with the rollout but didn't realize it had been that rough.

I don't agree re: new users--folks who won't know that these things (and more) were once valued as free, and now are being charged at $4.50 a month. The familiarity with the old system seems like a pretty big part of that to me.

kfarnell · ‎07-17-2019

It isn't an extra $4.50 for those of us who pay VAT. The monthly plan costs us $17.99 - which isn't at all clear from the help page (or indeed, anywhere).

I've paid it for the visibility. However, it's difficult to understand in which way it helps: 'more effectively market your services, submit proposals, and stand out from the crowd' as claimed.

Personally, I sympathise with the view that it's exploitative. It makes big promises and delivers little. It exploits expectations that 'Plus' means a sizeable addition, that it's a superior sort of account rather than a normal account with a few twiddly extras.

kfarnell · ‎07-17-2019

And although no one asked me, the perk I'd like to see added and would be worth spending money on is the ability to receive more invitations. In other words, if clients could have (say) 5 or 10 additional invitations to spend above their basic 3 but the additional ones could only be spent on inviting people with a Plus account. Or something along those lines.

(Unless the intention is to start charging for sending extra invitations...)

sergio-soria · ‎07-17-2019

When I started in Upwork I remember I was able to open a job post, see how many proposals there were and if I rolled over the word proposals that would showed me every single bid, and even the name of each freelancer. Was I dreaming, they had given that to me by mistake, did I have a special super plan and I didn't know? Haha. It was already Upwork. Having that is what I would call a Plus plan!

petra_r · ‎07-17-2019

Sergio S wrote:
When I started in Upwork I remember I was able to open a job post, see how many proposals there were and if I rolled over the word proposals that would showed me every single bid, and even the name of each freelancer. Was I dreaming, they had given that to me by mistake, did I have a special super plan and I didn't know? Haha. It was already Upwork. Having that is what I would call a Plus plan!

Nope. That was back in oDesk times and discontinued long before you created your Upwork account in 2016.

sergio-soria · ‎07-17-2019

Petra R wrote:
Nope. That was back in oDesk times and discontinued long before you created your Upwork account in 2016.

Well, then it's weird because I swear I did see that when I started in Upwork but I was bidding like once every 3 months because I was not really using the website at all. I remember it was Upwork because everything was the same green you see here. I never used oDesk.

petra_r · ‎07-17-2019

Sergio S wrote:
I never used oDesk.

Did you use Elance?

tlbp · ‎07-17-2019

Petra R wrote:
Sergio S wrote:
When I started in Upwork I remember I was able to open a job post, see how many proposals there were and if I rolled over the word proposals that would showed me every single bid, and even the name of each freelancer. Was I dreaming, they had given that to me by mistake, did I have a special super plan and I didn't know? Haha. It was already Upwork. Having that is what I would call a Plus plan!
Nope. That was back in oDesk times and discontinued long before you created your Upwork account in 2016.

The plus accounts still permitted this late in 2016 when I joined. You could see who bid and the amount of each bid.

petra_r · ‎07-17-2019

Tonya P wrote:
Petra R wrote:
Sergio S wrote:
When I started in Upwork I remember I was able to open a job post, see how many proposals there were and if I rolled over the word proposals that would showed me every single bid, and even the name of each freelancer.
Nope. That was back in oDesk times and discontinued long before you created your Upwork account in 2016.
The plus accounts still permitted this late in 2016 when I joined. You could see who bid and the amount of each bid.

I must have lost all sense of time in that case!! You joined in late 2015 though...

PS - This is from May 2015...

Memberships started February 2015 - and had the low-average-high range from the start.

I am pretty certain the ability to see the whole list of applicants went away 2013 or 2014 (on oDesk) and never existed on Upwork (as opposed to Elance.)