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camilachia
Community Member

Freelancers pay higher rates

Hi! I'm a client but also a freelancer. I recognize when I need help from another freelancer in other things and that is why I activated this account. It has come to my attention that UPWORK is more helpful, and caring about their clients but not the freelancers. In fact, the clients also have to pay an amount when you hire someone, but the rates ar higher when you are a freelancer. So my question is this, WE, the freelancers, are the ones who get the work done, why do we have to pay more in order to work??? WE are the ones who are struggling, WE MAKE UPWORK. I need answers. This is UNACCEPTABLE!

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

The official stance is - 

 

  • Freelancers and agencies will submit fewer proposals, focusing on job posts they’re most qualified for and most likely to win
  • Clients will have a smaller selection of highly relevant proposals to review, making it easier for them to identify the best talent for their projects

It’s a move designed to make it easier for clients to see your work and increase your odds of winning the projects you want most.

 

 

View solution in original post

37 REPLIES 37
hoyle_editing
Community Member

In a nutshell...

Because there is LOTS of freelancers so Upwork can charge what they like - Clients on the other hand are harder to come by, so Upwork looks after them!

Then Upwork should not allow customers to pay $5-$15 for a job, because we pay for our own connects. It's unacceptable and exploitative.

Well, dont bid on $5-$15 jobs - if no one bids on the cheap jobs people would stop posting them. 


Camila C wrote:

Then Upwork should not allow customers to pay $5-$15 for a job, because we pay for our own connects. It's unacceptable and exploitative.


That would only result in fewer jobs being posted. It wouldn't mean these people start paying more. They'd just recruit from elsewhere instead. 


Camila C wrote:

Then Upwork should not allow customers to pay $5-$15 for a job, because we pay for our own connects. It's unacceptable and exploitative.


But why do you, as an adult professional who both freelances and hire freelancers, not feel competent to simply not bid on a job that pays $5-15? Why do you feel that you need someone else to step into your relationship with a client and tell you both what is and is not allowed?

valery221166
Community Member

Dear Camila!
If you work in the same design bureau during many years, are successfull, everybody like your work, and one day, you enter to cheef´s cabinet, saying, "I want to go away", the first reaction of your cheef will be WHY?? WHAT HAPPENED?? CAN I DO SOMETHING??
In the same case the reaction of Upwork will be: Go, go, nobody disturbs...

Think about it.

No, I don't want to go. I want our voices to be heard. I think they have to do something about it. I'm not talking just about myself, I'm talking on behalf of other freelancers as well. I think it's a great platform but somehow they have forgotten what makes this community. We make this community.


Camila C wrote:

No, I don't want to go. I want our voices to be heard. I think they have to do something about it. I'm not talking just about myself, I'm talking on behalf of other freelancers as well. I think it's a great platform but somehow they have forgotten what makes this community. We make this community.


What if I don't want you speaking on my behalf?  What if you are wrong?

 

What if you are right and speaking up makes no difference?


Camila C wrote:

No, I don't want to go. I want our voices to be heard. I think they have to do something about it. I'm not talking just about myself, I'm talking on behalf of other freelancers as well. I think it's a great platform but somehow they have forgotten what makes this community. We make this community.


Don't speak for me. I prefer not to sound like a trog. I pay the money for advertising and I know that. I pay for the ease of finding clients. I'm cool with the fees, so speak for yourself.

I stand with what I said, if you don't agree with me, move along. I want to know from Upwork.


Camila C wrote:

I stand with what I said, if you don't agree with me, move along. I want to know from Upwork.


Oh, it's all power to the people and I am out for everyone unless you disagree with me then f*** off is it?

 

Fine, you can wait for Upwork.  

whoa, calm down. I'm not trying to pick up a fight. I just wanted to know why do I have to pay so much to work while the clients pay less. That's all.

The official stance is - 

 

  • Freelancers and agencies will submit fewer proposals, focusing on job posts they’re most qualified for and most likely to win
  • Clients will have a smaller selection of highly relevant proposals to review, making it easier for them to identify the best talent for their projects

It’s a move designed to make it easier for clients to see your work and increase your odds of winning the projects you want most.

 

 

Thank you!


Camila C wrote:

whoa, calm down. I'm not trying to pick up a fight. I just wanted to know why do I have to pay so much to work while the clients pay less. That's all.


All right, I will.  But if you are going to wait for an answer from Upwork you won't get it.  At least nothing useful.

 

I can give you my answer, because I only speak for myself, but I don't think it will mean anything to you.  I think we are on two completely different wavelengths.

 

 

Yes I think you are right. I'm speaking as a brown latinamerican woman who wants to thrive professionally in a platform like this having difficulties and no privilege at all. 


Camila C wrote:

Yes I think you are right. I'm speaking as a brown latinamerican woman who wants to thrive professionally in a platform like this having difficulties and no privilege at all. 


8-|

Camila, you are doing a huge mistake, if think about Upwork, like comunity. It is a business. And we - freelancers - are not a friends for Upwork! We are a resource, not more. Resource, that gives them a money!
You can answer: "Ok, no problem. But they have to care for each resource".In this case, I'll say: "Why? This resource refills every day"
Look around, you will notice the same people who are defending Upwork on the forum, and say that everything is perfect and we are just moaners. The situation is not an issue, not a problem for Upwork, you don't open their eyes here - they know, it is their existing strategy

florydev
Community Member


Valentine C wrote:

Camila, you are doing a huge mistake, if think about Upwork, like comunity. It is a business. And we - freelancers - are not a friends for Upwork! We are a resource, not more. Resource, that gives them a money!
You can answer: "Ok, no problem. But they have to care for each resource".In this case, I'll say: "Why? This resource refills every day"
Look around, you will notice the same people who are defending Upwork on the forum, and say that everything is perfect and we are just moaners. The situation is not an issue, not a problem for Upwork, you don't open their eyes here - they know, it is their existing strategy


Upwork is far from perfect.  If you are paying attention the very people you are talking about say so all the time.  The just may not agree about what the most critical imperfections are.  For example, here:

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Are-talent-specialists-still-interfering-with-the-bids/t...

 

I personally believe something very similar to what you are saying and almost posted it.  Upwork does not care about freelancers, not about me, or you or Camila.  Also like you that resource refills every day they can afford to waste it.

 

I just don't care.  Upwork is a useful tool.  It works for me.  If it stops working for me, I will just move on.  Upwork will not care one bit that I do.  

mtngigi
Community Member


Mark F wrote:

Valentine C wrote:

Camila, you are doing a huge mistake, if think about Upwork, like comunity. It is a business. And we - freelancers - are not a friends for Upwork! We are a resource, not more. Resource, that gives them a money!
You can answer: "Ok, no problem. But they have to care for each resource".In this case, I'll say: "Why? This resource refills every day"
Look around, you will notice the same people who are defending Upwork on the forum, and say that everything is perfect and we are just moaners. The situation is not an issue, not a problem for Upwork, you don't open their eyes here - they know, it is their existing strategy


Upwork is far from perfect.  If you are paying attention the very people you are talking about say so all the time.  The just may not agree about what the most critical imperfections are.  For example, here:

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Are-talent-specialists-still-interfering-with-the-bids/t...

 

I personally believe something very similar to what you are saying and almost posted it.  Upwork does not care about freelancers, not about me, or you or Camila.  Also like you that resource refills every day they can afford to waste it.

 

I just don't care.  Upwork is a useful tool.  It works for me.  If it stops working for me, I will just move on.  Upwork will not care one bit that I do.  


But ... but Mark, you might have to give your mug back if you move on. Then you'll have drink your Beliinis out of one of those red plastic cups. Oh, the humanity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

because this thread needs a little levity ...

tlsanders
Community Member


Valentine C wrote:


Look around, you will notice the same people who are defending Upwork on the forum, and say that everything is perfect and we are just moaners. The situation is not an issue, not a problem for Upwork, you don't open their eyes here - they know, it is their existing strategy


In about 2.5 years as  very active forum participant, I have literally never seen a single person suggest that everything is perfect or that there are no problems here. The only time those phrases (or anything that suggests something similar) are ever used is when freelancers who don't like that successful freelancers disagree with them lie about what has been said--even though the actual statement is right there above for everyone to read.

 

Here's something you might actually learn about the people you view as "defending Upwork every day" if your mind was ever-so-slightly open: most of us make several thousand dollars here every month, even though most of us use Upwork as only one of many sources of clients. 

 

What do you think is better for your business: to dig in your heels and prove us wrong, or to listen and understand how we're making so much money here?

chasb
Community Member


Mark F wrote:

 

 

 

......because I only speak for myself....

 

 


No big news there....  🙂

Those who can make U. work for them should stay. 

 

Those who can not make U. work for them should go elsewhere. 

 

It is that simple.  


Camila C wrote:

I stand with what I said, if you don't agree with me, move along.


Seriously? This is a public discussion forum and you come skipping in here, pretend to speak on behalf of "us", and then try to dictate that only people who agree with you may post?

 

You may want to quietly sit down and take a deep breath, and then take a long hard look at where the 20% / 10% / 5% we pay Upwork actually comes from... (Hint: It comes from the clients.)

a lot has been changed since I started from Upwork... It's just disheartening I can't seem to grasps their reasoning why they are doing this... im an Asian and the dollars spent in applying for those jobs really hurt...they may not hear us freelancers for now....but hopefully, it won't be too late for them when they do...


Margot F wrote:

a lot has been changed since I started from Upwork... It's just disheartening I can't seem to grasps their reasoning why they are doing this... im an Asian and the dollars spent in applying for those jobs really hurt...they may not hear us freelancers for now....but hopefully, it won't be too late for them when they do...


This is the major issue I have with having to buy connects. They are **only** 15 cents - that's is USD. Once freelancers in other countries convert that to their own currency it can get quite expensive, and of course that changes depending on the exchange rate. I purchased 4o connects recently. $6USD = $10AUD because we also have to pay GST on top of that. I honestly can't even remember if I got any jobs out of that money I spent. It does make you wonder whether there is also a thought to push away any freelancers that aren't in the US eventually. 

 

tlsanders
Community Member


Camila C wrote:

Hi! I'm a client but also a freelancer. I recognize when I need help from another freelancer in other things and that is why I activated this account. It has come to my attention that UPWORK is more helpful, and caring about their clients but not the freelancers. In fact, the clients also have to pay an amount when you hire someone,

 

No, clients pay "some amount" as a payment processing charge. It's the same as the charge one person or the other pays for every credit card transaction, business paypal transfer, etc. Upwork has to pay it to accept credit cards, and passes the fee it is charged on to the client.

 

but the rates ar higher when you are a freelancer. So my question is this, WE, the freelancers, are the ones who get the work done, why do we have to pay more in order to work???

 

Because we are the ones who are purchasing services from Upwork--services that save us a lot of time and money. Upwork spends a fortune advertising to clients so that they all come and cluster in one place here and we don't have to spend time and advertising dollars finding way to reach them on our own. Most experienced freelancers who have done the math will tell you that 10% is a bargain for that time savings.

 

WE are the ones who are struggling, WE MAKE UPWORK. I need answers. This is UNACCEPTABLE!


If it's unacceptable to you, your recourse is not to participate. But, it's worth noting that Upwork is a business, and as such is not in the business of catering to freelancers who are "struggling." And, in fact, "struggling" freelancers don't "make Upwork." Upwork makes its money from freelancers who make a lot of money and pay a lot of fees. 

 

You're not paying to work. You're paying for Upwork's marketing services, payment processing, payment protection and other services. If you don't find that those things are worth the money, then it of course makes sense to stop buying them.

chasb
Community Member

Oh dear, here we go again, where some (but not all) regulars here are correctly called out for attempting to control the narrative on these pages - in a biased way, of course.

They just wont allow other freelancers to have a say in anything at all - even including the higher-earners now - and then cutely self-kudo one another all along the way.

 

Step aside bots - the real people here have something to say. Don't like it, then go create your own self-wallowing thread.

tlsanders
Community Member

Chris, we obviously have no power to "allow" other freelancers to say or not say things.

 

The things you and others have decided to believe we are trying to suppress have been the subjects of dozens or hundreds of threads, many of which have been combined into massive threads with thousands of posts. There is nothing being suggested in any of these threads that hasn't been raised, discussed, suggested, and ultimately ignored or rejected by Upwork many, many times. 

 

Obviously, it's no skin off the noses of successful freelancers if others choose to focus on things that can't help them improve their businesses and continue to live in a constant state of frustration. And, that is exactly what is happening, because these freelancers quite frequently make reference to their misery and struggles. 

 

Everyone here has a choice to make: moan about what a massive entity you can't control should be doing, or figure out the most profitable way to run your own business (with or without Upwork). Frankly, I don't much care which a person chooses. I hate to see anyone fail and suffer unnecessarily, but some people are committed to it with their whole hearts and I can't change them any more than I can change how Upwork operates.

 

The reason I, at least (and I suspect many of my colleagues) raise counterpoints so often is that I do not want those who are content to fail as long as they can say it is someone else's fault to infect innocent newcomers.

 


Tiffany S wrote:

Chris, we obviously have no power to "allow" other freelancers to say or not say things.

 

The things you and others have decided to believe we are trying to suppress have been the subjects of dozens or hundreds of threads, many of which have been combined into massive threads with thousands of posts. There is nothing being suggested in any of these threads that hasn't been raised, discussed, suggested, and ultimately ignored or rejected by Upwork many, many times. 

 

Obviously, it's no skin off the noses of successful freelancers if others choose to focus on things that can't help them improve their businesses and continue to live in a constant state of frustration. And, that is exactly what is happening, because these freelancers quite frequently make reference to their misery and struggles. 

 

Everyone here has a choice to make: moan about what a massive entity you can't control should be doing, or figure out the most profitable way to run your own business (with or without Upwork). Frankly, I don't much care which a person chooses. I hate to see anyone fail and suffer unnecessarily, but some people are committed to it with their whole hearts and I can't change them any more than I can change how Upwork operates.

 

The reason I, at least (and I suspect many of my colleagues) raise counterpoints so often is that I do not want those who are content to fail as long as they can say it is someone else's fault to infect innocent newcomers.

 


Yes - well said. This forum is absolutely filled with useful advice for newcomers, but unfortunately there are also some really bitter people in here who aren't having much success and therefore make the false assumption that "Upwork doesn't work for me = Upwork needs to change".

 

I hate to break it to you, but Upwork is a business; they're not your employer, or your mom, or your friend. This website exists so that clients and freelancers can connect, and that's it. It's up to us to run our businesses properly, and the harsh reality is that if you can't do that, then you shouldn't be here. Upwork can't force clients to hire you, force clients to pay you, nor force clients to be nice to you (these seem to be the main themes of most complaints in the forum). 

 

Most of us who comment frequently have been around for years and have seen the same complaints in the forum over and over again. Then you look at the person who's doing the complaining and 90% of the time, it turns out that they have some combination of no talent, no experience, no business acumen, or no common sense (and that's without even getting into the vast numbers of scammers). Some of these people realize that they need to improve and they ask for - and receive - good advice. But then there are those who aren't willing to take any responsibility whatsoever for their lack of success; instead they make demands, post conspiracy theories, and insist that Upwork "sucks", then they get upset when others disagree with them.

 

Since this IS a public forum, we're allowed to post differing points of view without being accused of trying to "suppress" others. All of these people who waste customer service time by calling to complain that they're not getting jobs or not getting paid or clients aren't being nice to them - as well as every time that Upwork has to pay for mediation or pay freelancers themselves - that comes out of OUR fees. So we should be allowed to have our say, arguably more so than the freelancers who aren't making any money here and are just dragging this website down.

 

florydev
Community Member

Chris,
You are allowed to say anything you want it’s an open forum. I am not sure though you actually ever say anything but just comment on what others say. I am also not sure you have helped anyone.
Seems pointless to me.
I don’t agree with Camila but at least she gave her opinion not just complaining about others.
tlbp
Community Member


Mark F wrote:
Chris,
You are allowed to say anything you want it’s an open forum. I am not sure though you actually ever say anything but just comment on what others say. I am also not sure you have helped anyone.
Seems pointless to me.
I don’t agree with Camila but at least she gave her opinion not just complaining about others.

I think Chris has shorted the stock and is trying to increase his profits. 

chasb
Community Member

Nobody is asking for your opinions, people,so please save them for yourselves.

Those seeking your advice will do so explicitly, so until such time.....

**edited for Community Guidelines**

 


Chris P wrote:

Nobody is asking for your opinions, people,so please save them for yourselves.

Those seeking your advice will do so explicitly, so until such time.....

**edited for Community Guidelines**

 


errrrrrr, hate to point out the obvious, but this IS a discussion forum. By its very definition posting on it is going to warrant responses.

florydev
Community Member


Chris P wrote:

Nobody is asking for your opinions, people,so please save them for yourselves.

Those seeking your advice will do so explicitly, so until such time.....

**edited for Community Guidelines**

 


I don't care if anyone is asking for my opinion I am going to give it anyway.  That's why I want to be here and if I allowed you to tell me I can't then I would have no purpose here.  I suppose I could just complain about what others say but what would that achieve?

 

No, it's an open forum and I will do what I want.

Chris, you're sounding like a few rather notorious bad haired blondes ... a lot of weeping, gnashing of teeth, and trying to lay the blame for less than success anywhere other than directly where it belongs.  On their own poor decisions and worse judgement.

tlsanders
Community Member


Chris P wrote:

Nobody is asking for your opinions, people,so please save them for yourselves.

Those seeking your advice will do so explicitly, so until such time.....

**edited for Community Guidelines**

 


Absolutely brilliant follow-up to accusing others of attempting to control the forums. 

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