(French) How do the French taxes work?

a_linstrumelle · ‎04-13-2021

Hello,

I live and work in France and have a full time job there. I also have some regular translation projects each month through UpWork (I earn approx. 800/1000€ per month thanks to those projects).
I don't have the status of freelancer or "auto-entrepreneur".

My first question is: should I get the status of freelancer or auto-entrepreneur? Or can I keep on working without any status as UpWork is not my main source of income?
Then, how does VAT work on UpWork? Should I declare any taxes to the URSSAF? Or are my UpWork incomes already declared as I don't have any SIRET number?

As you understand, I'm really confused about it and would love to have more information and explanations about it.

Many thanks!

Ariane

kinector · ‎04-13-2021

Ariane, if you pay your taxes in France, it is probably more productive to ask someone in France about the taxes.

Upwork wouldn't know and it is not their concern. Most of the fellow freelancers would not know either as they live in other countries.

Those freelancers living in France have a different setup for their businesses, so I guess little help is expected from them either.

If there are people here who could help you, they might be your competitors and not too worried about helping you.

The only people who might help you on Upwork are tax advisors specializing in the French taxation system who are listed here as a freelancer. (By default I'd assume that kind of business is a local country-dependent thing, so doing that online gives little if any benefit to the person doing it. Most people here try to reach global clients.)

If you cannot find any people in your vicinity to give that advice, I suggest you simply set up a client profile alongside your freelancer profile and hire a tax advisor here as a consultant.

First, check if there are any such people on Upwork. If yes and you think you wish to hire one of them here, please follow these instructions to set up a client profile: https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211067558-Be-a-Client-and-a-Freelancer

georgiamcp · ‎07-27-2021

Hi there!

I have just set up as an auto-entrepreneur in France, through the Urssaf. It is quite simple and the associated taxes are cheap for France. You will need to provide your residence number, if you have a temporary number this will work also.

They will provide you with a SIRET but at this point in time Upwork does not require this information (from my understanding).

I am under the impression you can then get an inter-community VAT number which means you can get refunded the VAT from Upwork but you still do not have to pay VAT on your services. I am currently in the process of doing this so am not speaking from past experience.

Georgia

jr-translation · ‎07-27-2021

Georgia M wrote:
Hi there!
I have just set up as an auto-entrepreneur in France, through the Urssaf. It is quite simple and the associated taxes are cheap for France. You will need to provide your residence number, if you have a temporary number this will work also.

They will provide you with a SIRET but at this point in time Upwork does not require this information (from my understanding).

I am under the impression you can then get an inter-community VAT number which means you can get refunded the VAT from Upwork but you still do not have to pay VAT on your services. I am currently in the process of doing this so am not speaking from past experience.

Georgia

Why do you bother setting up as an auto-entrepreneur in France if you are living in Australia?

georgiamcp · ‎07-27-2021

Because I have just moved to France and updated my details so imagine it will take some time for it to reflect in the system 🙂

Update : My bad, I had updated the Tax details but not the location - both are now up to date.

jr-translation · ‎07-27-2021

Georgia M wrote:
Because I have just moved to France and updated my details so imagine it will take some time for it to reflect in the system 🙂

No, it was updated immediately.

a_linstrumelle · ‎07-27-2021

Hi Georgia,

Many thanks for your reply! It sure helps 🙂

mbaturov · ‎07-27-2022

Hi Georgia, and what's an approx tax level % for auto-entrepreneur in France working via Upwork? without taking VAT into an account.

Thanks!

Georgia M wrote:

Hi there!

I have just set up as an auto-entrepreneur in France, through the Urssaf. It is quite simple and the associated taxes are cheap for France.

...

Georgia

colettelewis · ‎07-28-2021

Ariane L wrote:
Hello,

I live and work in France and have a full time job there. I also have some regular translation projects each month through UpWork (I earn approx. 800/1000€ per month thanks to those projects).
I don't have the status of freelancer or "auto-entrepreneur".

My first question is: should I get the status of freelancer or auto-entrepreneur? Or can I keep on working without any status as UpWork is not my main source of income?
Then, how does VAT work on UpWork? Should I declare any taxes to the URSSAF? Or are my UpWork incomes already declared as I don't have any SIRET number?

As you understand, I'm really confused about it and would love to have more information and explanations about it.

Many thanks!

Ariane

________________________________

Ariane,

In France, if you sell any kind of service aside from your full-time job, it is taxable. Have a look here (you have to hunt a bit to find the relevant information): https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F31725

and here:https://www.impots.gouv.fr/portail/formulaire/2042/declaration-des-revenus

Once you have set up your side job as an autoentrepreneur or micro-bic you will receive your siret no., but for Upwork if you don't want to pay the service charge you will also need your intercommunitaire VAT number, which you apply for separately.

There is often confusion about VAT (TVA) when you are an autoentrepreneur. You do not have to charge VAT for your services, but you do have to pay for services received. Upwork provides a service therefore, charges VAT.

You can also contact URSSAF from their website, and I think there is also a forum. It seems complicated, but it is actually quite easy.

ETA: Sorry, I see you first posted in April, so no doubt you have already fixed the problem!

hizaouimarwen · ‎12-15-2022

Hi Ariane,

I'm in the same situation as you. Did you find a solution?

I work a full time job and I don't declare Upwork revenues because it is less than 10.000 EUR per year and I get paid by Paypal : https://www.impots.gouv.fr/particulier/questions/dois-je-declarer-mon-compte-paypal-ou-un-compte-ban...

But now Upwork is requesting the VAT number and I don't know how to get it.

Thanks.

colettelewis · ‎12-15-2022

Well you should declare it - and you do not get paid by PayPal. PayPal is the equivalent of a holding bank. You should be delclaring PayPal in your yearly tax assessment.

You don't have to give Upwork your VAT number. If you don't have one, then Upwork will charge you VAT on their service charge. If you want a VAT number then you have to declare your circumstances to the French government. You are allowed to be an auto-entrepreneur at the same time as having a full time job, but you still have to declare it: https://www.economie.gouv.fr/entreprises/emploi-salarie-micro-entreprise-auto-entreprise#

You should also talk to your local tax office. (You will find they are helpful, if you lay your cards on the table).

colettelewis · ‎12-15-2022

Deleted as I was replying to a post over a year old, and I am sure the OP found the answer.