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moeensalehi
Community Member

Funds reverse

Hi,

unwittingly violated Upwork Terms of Services, which as far as I searched, I couldn't find anything regarding it, I need your help to solve it,
I got an invitation to help a client buy BTC, I helped him and send the amount to their wallet and he released the milestone to my account, then suddenly Upwork suspended my account and after 24hours, they answered my question about the problem as 
following:

you violated our ToS and we will reverse the funds.
The problem is I paid to buy BTC and send it to the client becuase he added the funds to escrow, also the job had other hires before me, and the client account still working, but they want to reverse the fund from my account, also I checked the clients list and he spend 3k+ with other freelancers.
The client is an Upwork Plus Client and it has two past works with the same exact title as the work I have done for him and freelancers gave him 5 starts.
what should I do?

27 REPLIES 27
2a05aa63
Community Member

The job post is a scam. No one is going to gift you 200$ for doing basically nothing, especially on the internet.

I can still see your profile, maybe you just got an email that the payment got reversed (charged back)? You won't get your money back since the client reversed their payment. 

The client didn't reverse the funds, Upwork wants to do it.
And if you count the Upwork fees, and blockchain fees, the remaining is not big.
but my question is why does Upwork want to reverse the fund when the client is ok. I didn't know this is against Upwork rules and they told me this and I'll not accept this kind of job here. but right now Upwork wants to reverse the fund!


Moeen S wrote:

The client didn't reverse the funds, Upwork wants to do it.
And if you count the Upwork fees, and blockchain fees, the remaining is not big.
but my question is why does Upwork want to reverse the fund when the client is ok. I didn't know this is against Upwork rules and they told me this and I'll not accept this kind of job here. but right now Upwork wants to reverse the fund!


Upwork has 0 reasons to reverse a payment just because. They get % out of it. But the client's (and his bank)  chargebacked forcing the money to go back into the client's account so there are no more funds in the escrow. There was no money to begin with, and there is none now. The client's account will be banned shortly because of this.

the funds are not in escrow now, client released the milestone, so as far as I know, it's in my account now. it's not the client's money anymore so he can reverse it. if the client can reverse the payment even after he/she releases the milestone, how should we trust any future works?! 


Moeen S wrote:

the funds are not in escrow now, client released the milestone, so as far as I know, it's in my account now. it's not the client's money anymore so he can reverse it. if the client can reverse the payment even after he/she releases the milestone, how should we trust any future works?! 


Any visa and master card transaction can be reverse up to 90 days after it happened. Google chargeback. 

Yes, fixed price contracts are not secure. Hourly contracts tracked with the tracker are. So never accept a fixed contract on an new upwork account with 0 reviews. Sure, the account will be banned after they reverse the payment, but that account is a dummy account anyway. 

the client has feedbacks, 2 of them, also there are nearly 10 other people who have done the same job for him.
and I really don't get it, then why does Escrow exist if they can reverse it! this way any job I do can be reversed.


Moeen S wrote:

the client has feedbacks, 2 of them, also there are nearly 10 other people who have done the same job for him.
and I really don't get it, then why does Escrow exist if they can reverse it! this way any job I do can be reversed.


That account has no feedbacks. All of them are empty are from july. 
Surely the client didn't chargeback the money after they scammed the first freelancer since that would ban their account.  They mostlikely got banned already so they cleared the bank.

When you accept a fixed-priced contract there's a popup that talks about the risks. Only hourly contracts are secure and upwork will pay out of their own pocket if a chargeback happends.

Clients can do chargebacks. It is a violation of the TOS so they will get banned for that. In some countries it's easier than in other to do a chargeback. But it's a feature for online payment that can be done for good or for bad.

How do you say the account is banned?
the job exists, he checked in the last two hours,
also it has feedbacks with rating...

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Last viewed two hours ago


Moeen S wrote:

How do you say the account is banned?
the job exists, he checked in the last two hours,
also it has feedbacks with rating...


There wouldn't be a reversal of the funds if they didn't get banned.
I don't see the stars for some reason but even with the good reviews they were done this month after they people got "paid". No matter how many good reviews there are for a "free money" kind of job it will always be a scam. 

what you say is not logical, so here we only should work with clients that are old, also why Upwork charge 20% of each payment when they can't prevent nor accept any responsibility for the Escrow!
The payment method was verified, he was an Upwork plus client, I really don't know what should we check else when we want to accept a job.
it also makes sense if they want to offer that price because in some countries they can't buy Crypto directly.


Moeen S wrote:

what you say is not logical, so here we only should work with clients that are old, also why Upwork charge 20% of each payment when they can't prevent nor accept any responsibility for the Escrow!


Work with clients that offer jobs in your job category. Not some weird job that anyone could do and pay 200$ for 5 minute of work.

I have an RSS email which sends me any jobs that have "Mac" in them, this job has that and that's why I got it.


Moeen S wrote:

I have an RSS email which sends me any jobs that have "Mac" in them, this job has that and that's why I got it.


I undestand that you aren't happy with the situation.

Let's be honest, the only reason you accepted the job was because it was "easy money". And those things never end well.

No, it's not, this is very normal work because in lots of countries they can not buy directly and they buy with a little upper fee from other people.

this is not a solution, When the client releases the milestone, why should Upwork reverse the payment?!
and the ticket, there is no mention of any problem with their payment method or client's reversal request, Upwork simply stated that this job is against their rules and I apologize for it because I never saw anything that wrote this job has a problem here, If I have known this like other things that I know, I simply declined the job.


Moeen S wrote:

No, it's not, this is very normal work because in lots of countries they can not buy directly and they buy with a little upper fee from other people.


It isn't "very normal work" and if the "client" could not buy directly then they wouldn't have been able to receive what you sent. Also, crypto currency is available in the client's claimed country so that's nonsense anyway.

 

The HUGE difference between $450 and $250 should have given it away. That isn't "a little upper fee"

Come on, be serious. You think anyone would ever pay $450 in real money for $250? That just doesn't happen. 

 

 


Moeen S wrote:

 When the client releases the milestone, why should Upwork reverse the payment?!


Because it's fraud / theft / money laundering

 


Moeen S wrote:

If I have known this like other things that I know, I simply declined the job.


You should have known that this can't be in any way kosher. It literally screams "Scam".

they can receive the coins without any problem, I think you don't know how Cryptocurrencys work.

I don't know if cryptos are available in Japan or not, just try to clarify for you.

it's not a huge difference if you deduct Upwork fees + gas fees, what is remains a little.
If Upwork verified their payment method it can't be a fraud or theft, if they didn't verify why they wrote on the client profile that it's verified!!!


Moeen S wrote:

I don't know if cryptos are available in Japan or not, just try to clarify for you.


It is.

 


Moeen S wrote:

it's not a huge difference if you deduct Upwork fees + gas fees, what is remains a little.


You still don't understand. How much is left for you is not the issue. How much the client pays is. Again: Nobody in the universe would pay $450 in real money for $250. 

 


Moeen S wrote:

If Upwork verified their payment method it can't be a fraud or theft, if they didn't verify why they wrote on the client profile that it's verified!!!


Verification does not verify that there is no fraud. It merely verifies that the client has access to a payment method that can be charged. It does not verify that the payment method hasn't been hacked or stolen for example.

 


Moeen S wrote:


also it has feedbacks with rating...


Those contracts with feedback lasted only 24 hours and the feedback was left before the scam was discovered. They won't feel so great after their funds are reversed too.

 

There is absolutely NO way anyone would pay that and if you can send the scammer crypto-currency, they clearly have an account that can deal with it. You need to think before accepting a contract. This could not be more clearly a scam if it had "SCAM JOB SCAM JOB SCAM JOB" in huge red letters across the top of the job post. Nobody pays $450 for $250 with genuine money. EVER

this is how Upwork ToS define Escrow:

Freelancer and Client authorize and instruct Upwork Escrow to immediately release funds to the Freelancer Escrow Account on the occurrence of any of the following Release Conditions, such authorization and instruction to be irrevocable except as expressly provided in these Escrow Instructions:
  1. Client affirmatively selects the option to release funds for a Milestone or Service Contract to Freelancer.


 

From this I can understand when Client release the fund it's mine not them to reverse.

Basically the client will be paying with a payment method that isn't theirs or isn't legal. It will be reversed when the actual card-holder alerts their bank and the bank does a chargeback. 

 

There is literally NO way ANY real client would hire freelancers on Upwork to buy crypto with money they send on Upwork. It makes zero sense. 

 

Some other guy ended up losing  €6000 as he sent the money in cypto before being able to withdraw the (fraudulent) money the client "released from escrow". 

it makes sense because in some countries they can not but directly.

but my question is about Escrow, which it seems it's not reliable, the escrow should release the fund if both parties meet what they promised, it's really funny if they can reverse the payment whenever they want.

 

the payment method was verified, why is then Upwork says it if it's not theirs!!

Could you please explain this section that clearly stated that the fund will not refund to client if they release the milestone?

Client acknowledges and agrees that upon receipt of Client’s instruction to pay Freelancer, Upwork Escrow will transfer funds to the Freelancer and that Upwork, Upwork Escrow, and other Affiliates have no responsibility to and may not be able to recover such funds. Therefore, and in consideration of services described in this Agreement, Client agrees that once Upwork Escrow or its subsidiary has charged Client’s Payment Method, the charge is non-refundable.


Moeen S wrote:

Could you please explain this section that clearly stated that the fund will not refund to client if they release the milestone?


The client didn't ask for a refund. The transaction has been or is being reversed.

 

You can also find the part in the terms of srrvice yourself where it explains that in cases of fraud etc all bets are off. 

 

4.5 VIOLATION OF UPWORK TERMS OF SERVICE OR LAW

 
Freelancer and Client acknowledge and agree that if, in Upwork Escrow’s sole discretion, Upwork Escrow believes that fraud, illegal activity, or a violation of the Terms of Service has been committed or is being committed or attempted, then Client and Freelancer irrevocably authorize and instruct Upwork Escrow to take such actions as deemed appropriate, in Upwork Escrow’s sole discretion and in accordance with applicable law, in order to prevent or remedy such acts, including without limitation, to return the funds associated with such acts to their source of payment,
 
AleksandarD
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Moeen,

 

I already followed up with the team handling your case and you can expect an update on your support ticket very soon. If you have any questions, please post them directly on the ticket so the team can continue assisting you.

 

Thank you.

~ Aleksandar
Upwork

Thanks, Looking forward to it.

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