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hfrais
Member

Getting Back Your Connects if u Apply for Job with Non-responsive client

Hi!

 

I think it unfair that we lose connects if we apply for a job with what turns out to be a non-responsive client. I think that Upward should allow us to writdraw an application if there is no response within say 24 hours and get the connects back. What do others think?

 

Hayley

11 REPLIES 11
eagle7admin
Member

The client can't response to all the proposals.

I think it would be better, if client doesn't award a job to anybody, then we get our connects back.

d_lidwell
Member

I think 24-hours isn't really enough time for a client to properly vet the freelancers applying. Think of it this way, would 24-hours be enough time for you to get all of your business done, plus read 100 proposals, determine a handful of freelancers you'd like to interview, and go through the vetting process? I don't think I could.

 

Plus, sometimes patience really is a virtue. I've had proposals sit pending for a week or more before the client reached out to me. I've also had clients contact me weeks in advance to see if I'd be interested to do some work-related tasks for them.

 

What I do kind of think is unfair is, we spend our Connects to send these proposals, and if they are denied by the client, we still lose out on those connects. For new freelancers, it doesn't take long at all to blow through 60 Connects. In many cases, that can easily be done within the first week or two of each month. No, I think if they're going to make any kind of changes to that, they should let us have our Connects back if the client feels, for whatever reason, we're not a good fit for his project. That would help the new freelancers greatly during their first few months.

 

Although, I do see your point. 

No.  In the real world, if you don't get a reply to an application, you just move on.

 

With Upwork (and others) you are given a certain number of connects, which may or may not land you a job. It is a business strategy to get you to pay for more connects. But it's also a lottery and you still don't necessarily win. What is unfair is that the draw is loaded. So you don't know if your bid gets seen or not.

 

However, anyone who is bidding for jobs on this site, has agreed to go along with these rather Alice in Wonderland rules.  And the rule is that, unless a job is delisted or the client him/herself cancels, your connects are spent. 

"No.  In the real world, if you don't get a reply to an application, you just move on."

 

- While this is very much true, and I do agree with you to a point here, many of us have also pointed out on numerous occasions (yourself included if I recall correctly) that, Upwork does not follow "real world application" on many fronts.... why should this be any different.

 

-Additionally, in the real world, if I submit an application to a company, and I don't hear back from them in a week or two, it's always been good practice to call the potential employer. This shows that you're still interested, and helps you to confirm whether or not the vacancy has been filled. Should we be doing the same with all the proposals we send out?

 

"It is a business strategy to get you to pay for more connects. "

 

I have seen other freelance sites return the credits if the job was awarded to someone else (i.e. your proposal was denied). And, those sites also sell extra credits as well. It doesn't seem to be pushing their profit margin down by much, if any.

 

"What is unfair is that the draw is loaded. So you don't know if your bid gets seen or not."

 

- Completely and utterly agree... which is another reason why I find it unfair that we lose our connects regardless of a client's decision.

 

Honestly, this isn't really a huge gripe of mine either way. Yeah, it kind of stinks, but, it is what it is. What I'd really like to see implimented in regards to proposals and such is a system where we are at least notified when a job has been filled. For instance, we see jobs that state "Need 10 Freelancers". When all 10 positions are filled, I think the system should mark the job as "closed" to other applications, add some type of well-visible banner or other indication to show that the job is no longer open to applications (this would also show those that have already applied, the position is filled). And those job postings that don't have that "Need X Freelancers" banner, could be considered as only needing one.

 

Although, this would raise some issues for "test projects" for the weeding out process for clients, I suppose. But I'm sure there could be some sort of work-around for cases like this.

 

I've seen this work on other sites as well, no real reason to assume it wouldn't work here.

I have seen unaswered and non-awarded jobs on Elance for up to 3, even 4 months. I strongly believe there should be a limit for clients to either award a job or close it. And when it's closed without being awarded, all the connects should go back to the freelancers. I would impose a 30-day period until the jobs are automatically closed, or even better, have the clients pay a fixed fee for each job they open so we don't see all these duplicate postings. I've encountered clients with 8-10 similar jobs where they only changed a word. One example is from someone who was looking for beach footage and made more than 20 jobs, each for a different beach location.

 

I know it's our duty to report the duplicate postings, but if the clients are asked a fee, it might deter them. Upwork is the only place where the fees go out of the freelancer's pocket, I think it should be equal for clients to pay something too, besides for the job itself. Elance is much better at this, fees go out of the client's final payment, not ours.

You are absolutely wrong. At Elance the fees go out of the freelancer's pocket, slightly less than on Upwork. I can't think of any site where the client is obliged to pay (correction, there is one start-up business where the client is asked to pay a very small percentage).

 

When I started with oDesk, the onus was on  the client to pay the 10% and it was in their ToS. But this certainly did not deter duplicate postings (nor is it 'our duty' to report them. We have the option to report them). On the whole, clients are even more unaware of the ToS than any brand new freelancer. Clients want the job done and they press the 'do you agree' button as fast as they can to get their post up. 

Agreed. Elance, and most other sites I've come across so far, do take the percentage out of the freelancer's pay. Some clients will cover the percentage, with or without asking.... some do not.

Dawn said:

 

"- While this is very much true, and I do agree with you to a point here, many of us have also pointed out on numerous occasions (yourself included if I recall correctly) that, Upwork does not follow "real world application" on many fronts.... why should this be any different."

 

I did not say Upwork does not follow "real world application". I said that Upwork does not follow its own rules. You musn't tamper with my text. ๐Ÿ˜‰

 

Wherever one is. If you are a freelancer you offer your services in the knowledge of what you are worth. It is true that, on sites such as Upwork, you  have to sometimes cut your coat according to the cloth. But you never cut the cloth so close that the seams don't meet. In other words, you bid and the client will assume the cost even if you, the freelancer, is paying 10%.

 

I do not rely on Upwork for my business. It is useful if I get a job here, but my real bread and butter is freelancing in the real world.

Haha, sorry Nicola. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Maybe I understood your statement differently than it was intended.

 

It is true that on most, if not all, sites like this it is up to the freelancer to pay the [10%] fee. I don't have much of a problem with that personally. I look at it as a business expense, just as I do paying for Microsoft Office, or paying for web hosting, or whatever the case may be for any given freelancer. I am paying for a service from Upwork in order to maintain or advance my business and career.

 

And, truthfully, after looking at a few other sites recently, 10% seems to be the norm across most freelance "marketplaces", with the exception of Elance and maybe one other.

 

Edited to add:

 

Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that those who are coming to Upwork from Elance will maintain their Elance fee percentages for a period of time. Am I mistaken?

"Plus, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that those who are coming to Upwork from Elance will maintain their Elance fee percentages for a period of time. Am I mistaken?"

 

Elance has said that Elancers who migrate with their existing clients (ie the client agrees to migrate as well) to Upwork, will benefit from the lower percentages. But Elancers do not get preferential rates simply by merging or migrating.

Ahhh! I didn't realize there was that stipulation. Even still, for as long as I can remember the fees here have been 10%, and many other sites like this platform have the same, or close too, fees applied to the freelancers pay.

 

However, from what I can tell, Upwork is lacking in the department of Connects... and Membership benefits, compared to their competitors.

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