Aug 19, 2014 02:31:10 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 07:47:32 AM by Stephen B
Good fit...for who??
Another new feature sprung on us that we will undoubtedly be told will make everyone's life better. Now some of the jobs I open to look at have a big green "good fit" sign. What I want to know (as I have no client account) is, who sees this? - is it just the freelancer, or is it the client as well.
If it's the freelancer, well - if the job page is open, then I'm quite capable of reading it and deciding whether it's a good fit for me based on multiple criteria, and am hardly likely to be swung by a big green sign telling me whether it suits me or not. As usual, some mad robot algorithm has been concocted to decide what's a good fit, and as usual, some of the "good fit" decisions it makes are ludicrous.
I'm sick of being told that I'm a good fit for writing jobs, when all I've ever been is a proofreader and editor. I've even been personally contacted by an oDesk "newbie helper" inviting me to interview on behalf of a new client for a writing job that he thought would be a really good fit for me. WHY?? I've 179 jobs done and not one of them involved writing. Nowhere on my profile page does it say I do writing (in fact it specifically says I don't.)
What criteria are used to decide good fit? Certainly not price. I see jobs with a big green "good fit" sticker asking for $10 per hour, or $ per 1,000 words. Why is that a good fit for me?
Why oh why can they not stop trying to decide things for me and just leave me alone to run my business? At the every least, I think there are so many mad robots at this stage that there should be one big meta-option for every client and freelancer on their settings page- to opt out of oDesk algorithms and use the site "manually"
New rant over (it's probably not too different from the last one)
(and yes, I know it should be "for whom".....)
Aug 19, 2014 11:22:57 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:36 PM by Stephen B
Thanks for that Gillian
so now when someone asks me to do a writing job, I can't unload all my frustration on them, because apparently one of oDesk's mad robots has told them that I'm a good fit for their job (even though I've never done a writing job...)
Aug 19, 2014 01:10:33 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:38 PM by Garnor M
We look at how well your work history, job performance, ratings, and profile match the job requirements and the client’s preferences. When we see a good match, we’ll show a badge saying the job is a good fit for you. You are still in control of whether or not you apply for these jobs, we're just aiming to make it easier/more efficient for you to identify them.
We've been closely monitoring this and the feedback on the forums and we will continue to improve the accuracy of these recommendations.
Aug 19, 2014 01:45:04 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:39 PM by Stephen B
Thanks for the reply Garnor - but with respect the point is that it's patently not working because I'm not a writer, and nothing in my work history, job performance, ratings or profile says that I am, so there's no reason for it to flag a good match for writing jobs. Of course I'm in control of whether I apply for jobs, same as other spam invitations I receive. It doesn't make it one bit easier or efficient for me to identify the jobs, because I'd still be looking through them with a fine-tooth comb. The fact is that there is a possibly good idea backed up by a bad algorithm that doesn't work....Groundhog day...
Aug 20, 2014 01:18:59 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:41 PM by Natasa R
Stephen is 100% correct. I keep getting invites for jobs that are not even remotely close to my field of work, and the reason for this is oDesk's insane algorithm.
[quote]We look at how well your work history, job performance, ratings, and profile match the job requirements and the client’s preferences.[/quote]
No, you don't.
I just recently got another invitation for a job that has absolutely nothing to do with my work history, job perfomance, rating, profile - or the client's preferences.
Unlike oDesk reps, I can back up everything with facts. Let's take my latest invitation as an example. The client was looking for a Japanese sales agent who is fluent in speaking, reading and writing Japanese.
Well, guess what? oDesk recommended me for this job. So what criteria are you talking about?? Please explain to me, how exactly am I a good fit for this job? I don't speak, write or read Japanese, I am not a sales agent and I have nothing in my work history that would even indicate that.
I contacted the client immediately to inform him that I received the invitation by mistake, and he kindly replied and apologized to me. And it wasn't even his fault. He shouldn't need to apologize to me for oDesk's pathetic system.
He explained to me that oDesk recommended me for this job. I am not a client here so I don't know how things look like on their end, but from what I was told, there is apparently an "Invite all" button that automatically sends out an invitation to all the freelancers that are recommended by oDesk. By oDesk.
Can you imagine if I had flagged the client for spam? I wish I could flag oDesk for spam!
If oDesk can't provide a service to clients and freelancers, then either hire competent staff to fix the issues or stop waisting everyone's time.
[quote]You are still in control of whether or not you apply for these jobs, we're just aiming to make it easier/more efficient for you to identify them.[/quote]
Don't expect a standing ovation any time soon.
[quote]We've been closely monitoring this and the feedback on the forums and we will continue to improve the accuracy of these recommendations.[/quote]
Again, no you don't. There is no actual improvement of the accuracy of the recommendations. The facts prove you wrong.
Aug 20, 2014 05:32:45 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:43 PM by Stephen B
I was beginning to wonder if I was cracking up under the strain!
"from what I was told, there is apparently an "Invite all" button that automatically sends out an invitation to all the freelancers that are recommended by oDesk" Now that is really frightening
And it's as bad as the case I mentioned where an oDesk employee personally invited me to interview on behalf of a new client, for a job I was entirely unsuited to.
Please, please, just give us an opt-out button (though the problem with that is that a lot of clients will just press the "give me oDesk's list" button.) Why oh why can they not accept that their algorithms are flawed and patently do not do the job they're supposed to. I think even robots should be getting offended at this stage by being associated with them
Aug 20, 2014 07:00:12 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:47 PM by Margaret P
[quote=Natasa R.] If oDesk can't provide a service to clients and freelancers, then either hire competent staff to fix the issues or stop waisting everyone's time. [/quote]They have lofty ideas that would take a team of highly experienced and qualified programmer, QA testers and IT Managers to make work but they apparently are not prepared to pay for it.
If there is even a QA team I would be extremely surprised.
There shouldn't be so many flaws and tech issues on this site.
I've registered with many sites in my time and things usually run smoothly. I don't get it. Computer systems are supposed to make the user's life easier.
You make a good point, Margaret. The site is only as good as its Programmers etc
Aug 20, 2014 02:01:17 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:53 PM by Stephen B
I did a bit more digging about this. I've always put up with a job feed that came up with lots of writing jobs despite the advanced searches I tried to construct (including "and not "writer"". And I accept that if I put editor in as a term for the feed I'm going to have to see video editing jobs, etc.
So I opened all the jobs in my job feed and, lo and behold, nearly every one of them was a "GOOD FIT!".
I then deleted my main search and re-wrote it stripped to the bone with just stuff like editor, proofreader, etc. Now in my new job feed I opened up "Create WP Template to take fields from a Gravity Form into a Custom Post and make them editable for the User submitting the Form. " and "IPhone Video Guide" - both a long way from proofing and editing - and lo and behold, they were both a "GOOD FIT!"
So now (bear with me)... I deleted the first search and added a new search term to the feed - JOOMLA. I haven't a clue what it is, I just know I keep seeing the word crop up. So now my new job feed brings up a few "JOOMLA" jobs, as requested. And... no, you're going too fast . ..OK then, you've guessed - the first two JOOMLA jobs I opened up were a "GOOD FIT!"
So it would seem that this highly advanced new mad robot that considers past jobs, test results, feedback scores, etc, is really a toy robot that ACTUALLY just looks at your job feed. So you ask it what jobs to show you, and it tells you they're all a good fit.
I really really don't want to go on too much about this, but a bit of openness and transparency wouldn't go amiss (and a bottle of Yellow tail Shiraz!)
Aug 23, 2014 04:31:09 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:06 PM by Natasa R
From oDesk's website...
[quote]How do I hire the right freelancer?
Finding the right person for your project starts with writing a great job post. Describe what you need done and the skills you’re looking for—you’ll get qualified applicants, almost immediately. (We’ll even search out and send skilled candidates your way.)
From there, just interview your strongest candidates and hire your favorite! And if you’d prefer some hands-on help, we have recruiting services available to help you pick the perfect person.[/quote]
... to reality...
[quote]I deleted the first search and added a new search term to the feed - JOOMLA. I haven't a clue what it is...
...the first two JOOMLA jobs I opened up were a "GOOD FIT!"
I've even been personally contacted by an oDesk "newbie helper" inviting me to interview on behalf of a new client for a writing job that he thought would be a really good fit for me. WHY?? I've 179 jobs done and not one of them involved writing. Nowhere on my profile page does it say I do writing (in fact it specifically says I don't.)[/quote]
I rest my case.
Aug 23, 2014 05:06:24 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:10 PM by Ronald T
You quoted oDesk in part: "We’ll even search out and send skilled candidates your way."
As a freelancer, I have received a few invites from oDesk recruiters working on behalf of oDesk clients. Although I have a diverse background, none of the jobs were even close to my skill set.
After months of trying to work with and work around these oDesk "mad robots," I have concluded that the site is just too buggy to work with any longer; thus, I have resorted to other freelancer venues. It just takes up way too much time to attempt securing good clients and good jobs here on oDesk.
Aug 20, 2014 01:53:38 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:52 PM by Garnor M
Yes, we certainly have room for improvement when it comes to our recommendations. The Job Fit label I believe Stephen was referring to in the original post is different from the process that shows your profile to clients as they complete their job posting. In BOTH cases, we'll continue to improve our accuracy.
Aug 20, 2014 08:04:53 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:57 PM by Natasa R
Yes Garnor, I know the Job Fit label is a different thing but my comment was meant to continue on the other thing Stephen also mentioned in his original post:
[quote]I've even been personally contacted by an oDesk "newbie helper" inviting me to interview on behalf of a new client for a writing job that he thought would be a really good fit for me. WHY?? I've 179 jobs done and not one of them involved writing. Nowhere on my profile page does it say I do writing (in fact it specifically says I don't.)[/quote]
Do you see what I mean now?
Besides, what difference does it make what a feature is called when none of them work? Call it Job Fit, Invite all, True Match, Perfect Fit, Little Pink Flower... call them whatever you want. They are based on some criterias and it all comes down to one thing: they are both designed to do the one thing they can't do.
oDesk can't keep implementing new features each week without fixing the issues first. I don't want to see recommended jobs that I am not qualified for just like I don't want to be invited to jobs that I am not qualified for. You guys keep saying "we've been closely monitoring this and that" but nothing is being done. I think my example with the Japanese sales agent job is enough to make my point. And if you think this is not enough, just let me know cause I have lots of them.
[quote]In BOTH cases, we'll continue to improve our accuracy.[/quote]
Why don't you start with ONE before you move on to the next one. Make ONE thing work on this website and we will all be a lot more happier.
Aug 22, 2014 02:36:16 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:14:58 PM by Corinne L
Well, I don't think I'm part of the "good fit" program, since I've never seen it when applying to a job. But my "recommended jobs" list is absolutely amazing : out of 20 recommended jobs, there are only 2 English to French translation jobs, the remaining 18 are either for translations to languages unknown to me (Thai, Japanese, German, Spanish, Punjabi etc), or for English writing jobs. Now, about the 2 English-French translation jobs : one has been posted 11 days ago (no verified payment method, no hires), the other one has been posted 8 days ago (entry level, which I don't do).
Well, I don't understand, I can see English-French translation (or proofreading) jobs and I even applied to two of them this week (one I've been refused, the other one I've been ignored). The thing is, fortunately I've got on-going work with old clients here and I'm also working more and more on other platforms, because the way things are going, it's not getting very reassuring !
The 'good fit' sign usually appears in the top, right hand once you click onto a job ad and the system thinks that you're a good fit for that role. It's a green square.
There isn't anything to sign up for.
Aug 22, 2014 05:45:12 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:01 PM by Corinne L
Hi Gillian, well I think someone from oDesk said that this "good fit" program was in a testing phase and I don't think I'm part of it, because the sign never shows (unless the system thinks I'm never a good fit -I wouldn't be much surprised, btw- ! but I tried to click on one my recommended jobs (the german translation ;-)) and the sign didn't show either, that's why I thought I was not participating in the testing phase)
Aug 23, 2014 11:12:47 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:13 PM by Rabia A
same here, maybe it's in a testing phase,
I haven't seen any "good fit" sign on any of the jobs I've applied to.
As far as job recommendations are concerned, the job feed I'm getting matches
pretty well with my skills.
Aug 23, 2014 10:03:06 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:17 PM by Joseph C
[quote=Stephen B.]"As far as job recommendations are concerned, the job feed I'm getting matches
pretty well with my skills."
Must be a glitch...[/quote]
If it works, it's a glitch.
Just standby, they will break it.
This site has gone downhill in the few years I have been here.
I might look at job posting, but the ones that show up are days+days old.
Seems search never lists the newer the jobs until i so a manual search.
Aug 23, 2014 05:06:27 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:05 PM by Marcia M
I'm not in the "good fit" program yet, either.
But the very first of my recommended jobs says "I am looking for contractors with the lowest rates."
Looking at the job description, this is one for the "cheap jobs" thread.
Edit: It's there now. Have a laugh.
Aug 24, 2014 04:32:45 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:19 PM by Natasa R
My Recommended Jobs List feature is a complete joke. Take a look at what I see:
> Certified Independent Agent (for sales and marketing)
> Certified Salesforce Expert Developer
> IBM Certified Professional
> Certified Salesforce Developer
> Certified Magento Developer
> Adwords Certified Professional
> GPM Certified Programmer
> Certified Court Reporter
> Google Certified PPC Tech
> Google Adwords Certified
> Certified Business Developement & Sales Internship
> Certified TOEFL School
> Telesales Agent
> Telesales Agent
> Telemarketing Agent
> Patent Agent
> Zendesk set up Agent
> Events Agent
> Advertising Agent
> Phone Agent
And that's just the 20 first recommended jobs I see. I am not so motivated to click on Load More Jobs.
It picks up the keywords "Certified" and "Agent" from my job title "IATA Certified Travel Agent" and recommends me all sorts of jobs except the one that I am actually certified for. These clients are looking for people who are either certified or agents in their resp fields, and oDesk recommend them to people like me who have no skills for this kind of jobs.
Here is the ultimate joke though... I contacted oDesk support once for a technical issue and got the advice to apply for the jobs. Are you kidding me?? Which one? The Certified Court Reporter, the Certified Magento Developer, the Certified TOEFL School, or the Zendesk set up Agent??
And what exactly should I answer on the client's question for these jobs??
1. Have you worked on a similar job before?
No, but I am a hard worker and can do clown tricks for you.
2. What part of this project most appeals to you?
The "Zen" in "Zendesk" because it reminds me of meditation.
3. Which part of this project do you think will take the most time?
Zazen because it requires deep concentration.
I look forward to working with you!
Are you kidding me oDesk???
Edit: Just read the job post you mentioned. 😃
Aug 24, 2014 05:20:32 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:24 PM by Natacha R
[quote=Natasa R.]It picks up the keywords "Certified" and "Agent" from my job title "IATA Certified Travel Agent" [/quote]
Hi Natasa :)
My recommended jobs are all about Portuguese. Do you think it would help if I hide the test?
Here are some of them:
>Marketing Tools - English to Portuguese
>English to Portuguese Translation Job
>Translation from English to Brasilian Portuguese
>TRANSLATION english TO portuguese
>Translate English to Brazilian Portuguese
>Portuguese to english 3881 words
>From English to Brazilian-Portuguese or from Italian to Brazilian-Portuguese
Aug 25, 2014 09:12:53 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 08:15:30 PM by Natacha R
[quote=Natasa R.]Hey Natasha!
LOL I really don't know. I guess it depends what you don't work with. :bigsmile:[/quote]
I removed translations from my categories and skills, I actually had only one skill check-marked about translations, but it was English to Spanish.
This one was posted 8 hours ago, it's already on my list of recommend jobs.
>Need English to Portuguese translation
And this one 13 hours ago
>Meeting translation. .English - Brasil Portuguese