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jeffreymorris26
Community Member

Gripe: What's with the fees that clients list on their posts?

Hi:

I've been on Upwork for a few years. I do think that it's the future for a lot of freelancers and agencies. It represents maybe 25% of my income. I am registered both as a freelancer and agency (Branding + Design) I've been a designer at a very high level, for over 25 years. 

 

What drives me crazy are the fees or hourly rates that are listed by potential clients when they post jobs. I realize that many are just placeholders (and they will say this sometimes) but I bleieve that the majority are not. The fees that are listed in many cases are 25% (or more) lower than the fees that I get from my non upwork clients. Who does a logo for $500? They list that they want an expert for $40.00 per hour when agencies charge $250 on up.  I realize that many clients have never dealt with professionals, or that they are bootstrapping it . I've been told by others that Upwork clients are just not qualified leads for what I do. I'm still trying to make this work, as I said, I think Upwork is the future for many. 

 

Does Upwork tell potential clients how each of the skillset levels translates into hourly rates? For example if you want an "expert" you can expect to pay $90-250 per hour. 

 

For me, I'll see a job posted that sounds like fun and that aligns with my experience. Then I will see the hourly rate or project fee that is so low that I think its a joke (its not). It takes some time to apply for a project and to go through that effort only to be told that in fact they want to pay $100 for a logo. 

 

All comments and suggestions welcome.

 

 

10 REPLIES 10
elisa_b
Community Member

My personal take on the matter:

 

1) You will find people from all around the world on Upwork. While in the US an expert could be paid $150/hour, in other countries the same expert will receive a fair salary perhaps starting from $20/hour, because of the different cost of living. 

2) Sometimes I give some clients the benefit of doubt - they do not really know how much a service costs in the real world.

3) Last but not least, a lot of some clients are simply pinchpenny.

jeffreymorris26
Community Member

That is so true about the international clients. I have had the good fortune to work for client in India who was educated in the states. He really "got it" and was a lot of fun to work with. 

 

I wish there was some way for Upwork to offer a guide of some sort to these clients. 


Jeffrey M wrote:

 

I wish there was some way for Upwork to offer a guide of some sort to these clients. 


Believe me, the last thing we need is for UW to try informing or guiding clients about what various professional services should cost. For one thing, this global marketplace is so complex and convoluted, with so many variables operating in a given situation, that it's simply not feasible to think about developing the standardized framework that would be necessary. For another, most of us who've been on the platform for a while (six years and counting, for me) have seen precious little evidence that UW understands our categories or the fundamentals of freelancing. (Example: they currently have market research, a professional discipline commanding three-figure hourly rates, categorized under "Admin Support".) 

I neither want nor need UW to tell clients how much they should expect to pay for my services. I am perfectly capable of sussing out a client's needs and quoting a fair price, negotiating scope and scale and either reaching mutually acceptable terms or parting ways cordially. (Or having less socially mature clients ghost me. Fine, whatever.) Time spent sifting through and vetting prospects is part of my cost of doing business on UW. In return, I don't have to go find them on my on, in the wild, and the ones who hire me don't have to be chased down to pay their invoices.

 

I can't find it now, but there has been a posting on what client's see that Upwork decided was reasonable. It was terrible. Upwork has plenty to do, and they don't need to spend untold hours trying to educate client's on prices. If they removed the unskilled willing to dive to the bottom for a job, the prices would naturally go up. However, there have always been jerk clients and there always will be. Don't allow client's to drive you into substandard money, but do not have Upwork spend time and money on this issue.

elisa_b
Community Member

Upwork could offer all the guidance you could think of, but if the client's budget is tied to their perceived costs, I guess there is not much to do about it.

 

Plus, with a zillion people on the platform, there is always somebody willing to offer cheaper rates.

 

Thankfully some clients can be persuaded into paying more for quality service, and there are also some well-paying offers.

the-right-writer
Community Member

$100 for a logo? Wow, that's pretty good compared to the rates I hear about. There was one in the forum for $5.00.

 

I have no doubt that is low for a professional. Unfortunately, when you see what Upwork is telling the clients is a fair price, it is sickening. The model is apparently that you can get professional level quality for dirt cheap. On the client's side (you have to log out, wipe cookies) somewhere it has suggested rates or something similar.

 

Upwork believes in allowing anything that calls itself a freelancer to be a freelancer, and those unskilled people will work for pennies, precisely because they have no skills. There are so many that are willing to work for nothing just to get jobs, believing that will establish their career. In reality, it sets them up for future failure.

 

I see "expert" jobs listed for ridiculous amounts. A job that will take 10 hours from a real expert, and the amount is $100? I can't afford to work for that amount.

 

I encourage freelancers to charge what they are worth. If you are focusing on local or regional target customers, then you may have to scale your fees to that area. However, if the freelancer is in the world marketplace, then I feel they should charge whatever their skill level demands. Before someone comments, yes, people from every part of the world.

 

Writing proposals and connects (waiting for virtual tomatoes to fly my way, flung by cranky freelancers) are part of freelancing. I have seen people gut their rates, desperately trying to get jobs, and even if they get the job, it usually has problems. Sometimes it is a client who is ignorant of the cost, but most often the person knows exactly what they are doing. I have seen some clients who have a long history of hiring for a logo, but paying ten or twenty dollars. Obviously they don't care what they get, and it's common knowledge, theft is rampant. Some clients literally do not care if the work is good or if it is stolen. Look at online content and e-books. Most are so full of basic errors it makes reading unpleasant, to say the least.

 If everyone decided to leave the crap jobs, the platform would improve. However, as long as Upwork allows anyone with no skills and a profile full of lies or stolen material, not much will change.

 

 

 

81f2681a
Community Member

Upwork has clients and freelancers from all over the world. Not all clients has enough money to pay thousands for a logo. For a lot of freelancers $10/hour is just enough for their livings.

Here we have small and big fishs, thats normal.

Something everybody must understands: All clients wants the best professional for the lower price. Every freelancers wants to earn most that they can for the lower effort spent. Negotiations comes to balance desires from clients and freelancers. So when a client says "I want to hire a very professional freelancer for just $5" he is just expressing his deep and true feelings and desires. It is unrealistic? Yes, it is. He will find a high quality professional for just $5? Probably not. But this is his true desire, and the desires of all clients, I´m sure about it.


Andre A wrote:

Upwork has clients and freelancers from all over the world. Not all clients has enough money to pay thousands for a logo. For a lot of freelancers $10/hour is just enough for their livings.

Here we have small and big fishs, thats normal.

Something everybody must understands: All clients wants the best professional for the lower price. Every freelancers wants to earn most that they can for the lower effort spent. Negotiations comes to balance desires from clients and freelancers. So when a client says "I want to hire a very professional freelancer for just $5" he is just expressing his deep and true feelings and desires. It is unrealistic? Yes, it is. He will find a high quality professional for just $5? Probably not. But this is his true desire, and the desires of all clients, I´m sure about it.


Not all of them. Some want the best freelancer and they are willing to pay the freelancer's price. Some just don't want to spend more than $5 and will accept any old garbage. At least as far as art and design.


Jarrad C wrote:

... Some want the best freelancer and they are willing to pay the freelancer's price. ...


Yes, because they are realistic, they knows that the bests rarely will accept low rates, and they have money to pays them. But, if they could find an excelent freelancer that does his job with high quality and charges $5, and client is very sure that isn´t a scamm, its true, the client would hire this exceptional freelancer for just $5 for sure.

If I could buy a porsche for just $5, I would do it for sure.

grendon
Community Member

Unfortunately for many people freelancer means cheap labor. 

I've seen company from the US looking for a "rock star" in certain areas, but they're only willing to pay $8-$10/hr. 

There was one job post I saw once, hilarious but sad at the same time, the client was looking for a VA, they need the person to speak English and Spanish fluently, if they were fluent in other languages was a +. The described a ton of work, from making appointments, making calls to clients, take and log incoming any calls, even update the website store, you name it the list was very long. 

The payment for that position was US$5/hr. 

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