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eric5037
Community Member

Happy client, NO feedback on a 2º job, What do I do?

Hi, 

 

I do a first job for a client, he's happy, gives me a bonus and a very good feedbaxck. So happy, he asks me for the rest of the task which wasn't even planned: I react very fast, I put it on the top of the list because it's something that can be done very fast (in a few hours). 

 

what do I get as a result? he pays me, that the first step but I need by feedback and what do I get? no feedback. It's so tiring, exhausting I would say. 

 

Now, the question is: what do I do?

do I wait 14 days to get a feedback? do I keep insisting to the client?

 

do clients have a remote understanding of what a feedback to a freelancer? what I want is a feedback that reflects reality: 100% success freelancer = 100% JSS. I don't want to see it drop when it's totally unfair.

 

may be I am being a little paranoid on that one but man, really, I do the job at the speed of sound and the guy doesn't even bother in letting a feedback. as much as I try to understand, I can't. let's be serious!

 

I insist: 

what do I do? what do I "don't" do? (what don't I do)?

if my JSS drops, what should I do?

 

Thank you.

26 REPLIES 26
mariouranjek
Community Member

Hi Eric,

 

Have you tried just asking politely for him to leave feedback since it does make a difference for future projects. Do not insinuate that he should leave you a 5 star rating, just remind him.

 

In the future insist on clients ending the the contracts, that way they have to leave you a feedback

 

Best,

Mario


@Mario U wrote:

Hi Eric,

 

Have you tried just asking politely for him to leave feedback since it does make a difference for future projects. Do not insinuate that he should leave you a 5 star rating, just remind him.

 

In the future insist on clients ending the the contracts, that way they have to leave you a feedback

 

 

Best,

Mario


 Yes, absolutely, I have asked politely and I always ask for an honest feedback, I never ask for a 5 star feedback. Now, if it's perfectly done, fast, cheap, it should be a 5 star and it normally is.

 

I always insist, I always ask because I know clients: they are like a dog with a bone: when he gets it, he flies, dogs fly?

 

That being said, Thanks for you help but my questions are not answered.

petra_r
Community Member

You need to relax.

 

Occasional contracts without feedback do NOT hurt your JSS provided money was paid. ONLY if you have too many of them does it become an issue.

 

There is NEVER any need to mention feedback. Personally I never have, never will and never would, because I think it's unprofessional.

 

Just make sure you are not the one to close the contract, let (and encourage) your client close the contract, that way you are guaranteed feedback.

 

There is no rush either, maybe the client has more work for you.

You have had 30 jobs, only 1 "No feedback" one, so one more would categorically not affect your JSS negatively.

 

 

eric5037
Community Member


@Petra R wrote:

You need to relax.

 

Occasional contracts without feedback do NOT hurt your JSS provided money was paid. ONLY if you have too many of them does it become an issue.

 

There is NEVER any need to mention feedback. Personally I never have, never will and never would, because I think it's unprofessional.

 

Just make sure you are not the one to close the contract, let (and encourage) your client close the contract, that way you are guaranteed feedback.

 

There is no rush either, maybe the client has more work for you.

You have had 30 jobs, only 1 "No feedback" one, so one more would categorically not affect your JSS negatively.

 

 


well, I don't think it's unprofessional at all: professional freelancer = professional client.

 

may be it's time for clients to understand what a feedback is and how it can affect the freelancer activity but well, you know...

 

It doesn't matter if I have a 100% JSS or a 95% but the JSS must reflect reality. 

petra_r
Community Member


@Eric B wrote:

It doesn't matter if I have a 100% JSS or a 95% but the JSS must reflect reality. 


 Yours is 100% - what are you fretting about? If you get the client to end the contract you DO get feedback...

 

 

 

eric5037
Community Member


@Petra R wrote:

@Eric B wrote:

It doesn't matter if I have a 100% JSS or a 95% but the JSS must reflect reality. 


 Yours is 100% - what are you fretting about? If you get the client to end the contract you DO get feedback...


I just want it to stay that way as it must. prevention is better than cure, right?

 

Well, from now on, may be instead of asking for a feedback, I will ask clients to end the contract.

 

but you're right, I have to relax a little bit, I should have taken a day off, I didn't and I don't see things the same way, i'm more impatient surely because more tired. I have to take that day off.

charles_kozierok
Community Member

You're a "JSS perfectionist" like me. 🙂 Bugs me also when I get no feedback.

 

What I sometimes do when asking for a job to be closed is use a line like this: "Would it be okay if we close the project so we can leave each other feedback, making it easier for both of us to work in the future on the platform?" This makes it sound much more like a "let's do this together as a team" thing than a "freelancer nagging the client" thing. And the client does benefit from feedback as well (even if not as much).

 

In a case where the client hasn't left feedback, I'd probably drop it, but I'd mention it on a subsequent project if that came up.

 

As to the last point you made -- this is one of the toughest things for contientious freelancers. A full-time job makes it easy to "leave the office at the office" and includes paid time off. I always joke that as a freelancer you get unlimited time off and no time off simultaneously, because we don't get paid when we don't work. So you have to recognize when you are getting near burnout and (if necessary) force yourself to take some time to regenerate.

 

It's not always easy. This past holiday weekend here in the US I did at least some freelance work every day and a lot of garden and housework too.. it wasn't terribly relaxing. But I did this to keep ahead of my workload, and I will compensate at times by taking off a day in the middle of the week sometimes when I need it. This is the power of the flexibility we have. I typically select time off based on client needs and my own but it's an ongoing process of adjustment and compensation and takes a long time to get right.

 

Be sure to get enough sleep, too. Most Westerners are chronically underslept and it is bad for you in too many ways to list.

 

Hang in there. 🙂

 

PS Petra, did they come out at some point and clarify at what point lack of feedback affects things or is it still part of the Great Mystery? Thanks.


@Charles K wrote:

You're a "JSS perfectionist" like me. 🙂 Bugs me also when I get no feedback.

 

What I sometimes do when asking for a job to be closed is use a line like this: "Would it be okay if we close the project so we can leave each other feedback, making it easier for both of us to work in the future on the platform?" This makes it sound much more like a "let's do this together as a team" thing than a "freelancer nagging the client" thing. And the client does benefit from feedback as well (even if not as much).

 

In a case where the client hasn't left feedback, I'd probably drop it, but I'd mention it on a subsequent project if that came up.

 

As to the last point you made -- this is one of the toughest things for contientious freelancers. A full-time job makes it easy to "leave the office at the office" and includes paid time off. I always joke that as a freelancer you get unlimited time off and no time off simultaneously, because we don't get paid when we don't work. So you have to recognize when you are getting near burnout and (if necessary) force yourself to take some time to regenerate.

 

It's not always easy. This past holiday weekend here in the US I did at least some freelance work every day and a lot of garden and housework too.. it wasn't terribly relaxing. But I did this to keep ahead of my workload, and I will compensate at times by taking off a day in the middle of the week sometimes when I need it. This is the power of the flexibility we have. I typically select time off based on client needs and my own but it's an ongoing process of adjustment and compensation and takes a long time to get right.

 

Be sure to get enough sleep, too. Most Westerners are chronically underslept and it is bad for you in too many ways to list.

 

Hang in there. 🙂

 

PS Petra, did they come out at some point and clarify at what point lack of feedback affects things or is it still part of the Great Mystery? Thanks.


Thanks for telling me about you're experience, It's great to share that kind of things. 

 

What bugs me is the paradox between a 5 star feedback and a whole nothing, that means: if I have the first job done correctly, great feedback and playing the game but when I get the end of it, that last part of the job (which is a new job), game over. not normal!

When you see something incongruous like that, there's usually a very logical explanation, just one you hadn't considered yet.

 

In this case, it's almost always just ignorance on the part of the client. IME most clients understand very little about what is important to freelancers (other than being paid, which is obvious). I don't think the platform does much to help them understand these things either. So you have to gently educate them.

 

I did have a client once whom I ended up dropping because of a pattern that developed: he'd hire me to edit something, say he liked the edit, then pass it back to me to re-edit after he undid a bunch of my changes creating an ungrammatical result. We'd go back and forth a few times until he was satisfied -- and then he'd give me a 4.0 to 4.5 star review. The number itself wasn't the issue, but there was a seeming paradox here like the one you observed. He claimed to be happy but nitpicked the work and then marked me down, but never explained why. After a few times I realized this just wasn't a good fit and declined subsequent work.

 

That's rare, however. Usually, the client just can't be bothered and doesn't think it's a big deal. So you have to help them understand. (I do understand the position some freelancers take in believing this isn't something to bring up with clients, but I think it's okay to do if it is subtle and infrequent.

 

Never nag. But do remember that one of the advantages of being a freelancer is that you do have the ability to fire clients if they behave in a repeated pattern that you don't like.


@Charles K wrote:

When you see something incongruous like that, there's usually a very logical explanation, just one you hadn't considered yet.

 

In this case, it's almost always just ignorance on the part of the client. IME most clients understand very little about what is important to freelancers (other than being paid, which is obvious). I don't think the platform does much to help them understand these things either. So you have to gently educate them.

 

I did have a client once whom I ended up dropping because of a pattern that developed: he'd hire me to edit something, say he liked the edit, then pass it back to me to re-edit after he undid a bunch of my changes creating an ungrammatical result. We'd go back and forth a few times until he was satisfied -- and then he'd give me a 4.0 to 4.5 star review. The number itself wasn't the issue, but there was a seeming paradox here like the one you observed. He claimed to be happy but nitpicked the work and then marked me down, but never explained why. After a few times I realized this just wasn't a good fit and declined subsequent work.

 

That's rare, however. Usually, the client just can't be bothered and doesn't think it's a big deal. So you have to help them understand. (I do understand the position some freelancers take in believing this isn't something to bring up with clients, but I think it's okay to do if it is subtle and infrequent.

 

Never nag. But do remember that one of the advantages of being a freelancer is that you do have the ability to fire clients if they behave in a repeated pattern that you don't like.


Great stories. 

It shouldn't be our task to educate clients. we already have to look for work, make proposals, do the job, better our skills... We're not little mummies, are we?

 

I had a client who gave me once a relatively bad feedback and I had worked tons of hours, so many hours I wouldn't even calculate the hourly price to avoid being depressed. That was the kind of mysterious guy like "next step is a secret". Long after I did that work, he contacted me again and told me that he may be gave me a too bad feedback and he didn't know he could hurt me that way. He changed it and my feedback increased again. 

 

He recently contacted me again to improve a work I did for him and when I told him about steps from 1 to 5, he told me something like "it's not so complicated". Well, that's easy, I don't do the job. 

 

That is what you say: we can take the job or not.

"It shouldn't be our task to educate clients."

 

It shouldn't, but it is. We can't change Upwork's policies. only do what's best for ourselves and our clients.

 

"I had a client who gave me once a relatively bad feedback and I had worked tons of hours, so many hours I wouldn't even calculate the hourly price to avoid being depressed. That was the kind of mysterious guy like "next step is a secret". Long after I did that work, he contacted me again and told me that he may be gave me a too bad feedback and he didn't know he could hurt me that way. He changed it and my feedback increased again."

 

Glad that happened. 🙂

 

"He recently contacted me again to improve a work I did for him and when I told him about steps from 1 to 5, he told me something like "it's not so complicated". Well, that's easy, I don't do the job."

 

I wouldn't even have considered working for someone like that again. You made the right decision.

 

I think the most important jobs as a freelancer are not the ones you do take, but the ones you do not.


@Charles K wrote:

 

PS Petra, did they come out at some point and clarify at what point lack of feedback affects things or is it still part of the Great Mystery? Thanks.


 Nope, but seeing people with 20% or more keep their 100% JSS it has got to be more than that.

Same goes for long term inactive contracts (in both cases... provided money has been paid).

 

Thanks. I remember last year my JSS dropped due to a couple of open and idle contracts. I contacted CS and was told this can happen with even one project as little as 30 days idle. Subsequent discussions contradicted this, but I've been confused ever since.

Well, I just looked and my JSS dropped on Sunday from 100% to 99%. No, not a big deal, but I'm unaware of any recent unhappy clients and have no idea why it decreased.

 

The only thing that could account for it that I can think of is a few projects that have been idle for a few weeks. Oh, and the "client" who ripped me off by closing the project before I could bill anything and then disappearing. It would be pretty frustrating if that also was reducing my JSS; I believe I was told it would not, but not in a way that was particularly reassuring.

 

I wish there were some way Upwork could balance its need to avoid people gaming the system with freelancers' need to have a bit more transparency on how this critical metric works.



@Charles K wrote:

1) The only thing that could account for it that I can think of is a few projects that have been idle for a few weeks.

2) Oh, and the "client" who ripped me off by closing the project before I could bill anything and then disappearing.

3) It would be pretty frustrating if that also was reducing my JSS;

4) I believe I was told it would not, but not in a way that was particularly reassuring.



1) Nope. A few weeks don't do that, and if money was paid on them, those will not hit you unless you have a significant percentage of them.

2) Shall we have the "bill time while contract is open, ideally before sending work, you can always adjust it later" talk again?

3) The client left (private) feedback. Has your "clients who would recommend me" percentage reduced also?

4) By whom?

 

1. Well, that's all I can find that would do it, at least based on my understanding.

 

2. If such a discussion will allow me to fix the contract I mentioned, then sure. Otherwise, I don't see much point in rehashing it. My memory may not be what it was, but I recall the arguments quite well, and for what it's worth, I have adjusted my policy (at least partially) based on that incident, though it remains the only case where this has happened in all my time here. (I think it's also worth pointing out that since this guy was a scammer, he could have simply refused to pay even if I had billed the time.)

 

3. The client did leave private feedback, but indicated repeatedly that he was very happy with the work. His only complaint was that my rate was high, a problem he apparently decided to solve by not paying me. It's possible that he deceived me, but see below. My percentage of clients who would recommend has not changed, but the resolution on that is only two significant digits.

 

4. By an "Upwork Support Supervisor" who told me that my JSS had updated since the project in question but was still 100%. Which was true. This is more than a month later.


Charles K wrote:.

 

4. By an "Upwork Support Supervisor" who told me that my JSS had updated since the project in question but was still 100%. Which was true. This is more than a month later.


 4) In that case that contract did not affect your JSS and can not have done, so the private feedback was good.

 

It can't affect you now if it was closed before a previous update.

 

 

 

Okay thanks for the confirmation, but then... what is it? LOL. Damned if I know.


@Charles K wrote:

Well, I just looked and my JSS dropped on Sunday from 100% to 99%. No, not a big deal, but I'm unaware of any recent unhappy clients and have no idea why it decreased.

 

The only thing that could account for it that I can think of is a few projects that have been idle for a few weeks. Oh, and the "client" who ripped me off by closing the project before I could bill anything and then disappearing. It would be pretty frustrating if that also was reducing my JSS; I believe I was told it would not, but not in a way that was particularly reassuring.

 

I wish there were some way Upwork could balance its need to avoid people gaming the system with freelancers' need to have a bit more transparency on how this critical metric works.


 Well, yes, I agree, It seems that clients can do what they want. 

 

Imagine right now, I'm a client and I ask you to do something, you do it but after that on the same contract, I ask you more and more and more... what can you do?

 

In fact, where is the dispute system?

I just see the "?/disputes" and when I go in it, I see a "you have no dispute". Good to know but where should I open a dispute if I wanted to? I don't want to and don't need to, right but I'd be happy to know where it is. May be another thread.

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Ask the client if the project is complete.

 

If he says yes, ask him to please close the project on Upwork's system, tell him you enjoyed working on his projects and you look forward to leaving great feedback for him.


@Will L wrote:

Ask the client if the project is complete.

 

If he says yes, ask him to please close the project on Upwork's system, tell him you enjoyed working on his projects and you look forward to leaving great feedback for him.




@Will L wrote:

Ask the client if the project is complete.

 

If he says yes, ask him to please close the project on Upwork's system, tell him you enjoyed working on his projects and you look forward to leaving great feedback for him.


 I shouldn't have to ask if the project is complete or not: I have to know by myself and I know it's complete. 

 

In fact, he paid in a matter of minutes but I think he simply forgot about closing the contract / giving feedback.

petra_r
Community Member


@Eric B wrote:

In fact, he paid in a matter of minutes but I think he simply forgot about closing the contract / giving feedback.


 No, he did not - he must have chosen the option that he has further work for you because every time when releasing a milestone the client is asked whether to close the contract or whether there is more work.

 

eric5037
Community Member


@Petra R wrote:

@Eric B wrote:

In fact, he paid in a matter of minutes but I think he simply forgot about closing the contract / giving feedback.


 No, he did not - he must have chosen the option that he has further work for you because every time when releasing a milestone the client is asked whether to close the contract or whether there is more work.

 


 Yes, he did, I'm so, so sorry to contradict you but he made 2 contracts not just a contract with 2 milestones.

 

That being said, he has finally left that feedback, so he has done what he had to do. Great feedback, a little slow but great. May be I will take that day off.

nandees
Community Member

Eric its great that u did the project with speed of sound, but might be ur client wanted u to do it with speed of light, and since you did not work according to his expectations, so he/she didn't leave any feedback

eric5037
Community Member


@Nandeesh P wrote:

Eric its great that u did the project with speed of sound, but might be ur client wanted u to do it with speed of light, and since you did not work according to his expectations, so he/she didn't leave any feedback


It's a good one! you've made me laugh on that one, lol

he finally left me that feedback.

Hope this isn't a dim question, but it couldn't be that some FB tell out of the 12-month window, could it? And your 6-month wasn't better than your 12-month?

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