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High fees should filter out scams! Yes? No?

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Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
11 of 41

@Kate W wrote:

 

 Now, about wanting to get rid of "newbies"---can you explain how that would be a good thing? Is that what Upwork is trying to do by raising its rates on small jobs?


I don't think online freelancing platforms are for people with no experience in freelancing. Newbie freelancers may join freelancing platforms, but chances are they will lack the skills to smell a scammer and to provide top notch services that clients can appreciate.

 

Freelancing is a fantastic adventure that requires skills that are learned progressively. Very often by working in the Corp. world and then by starting small. This is not an environment that Upwork can offer to apprentice freelancers.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
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Ace Contributor
Kate W Member Since: Apr 15, 2016
12 of 41

@Rene K wrote:

 

 

I don't think online freelancing platforms are for people with no experience in freelancing. Newbie freelancers may join freelancing platforms, but chances are they will lack the skills to smell a scammer and to provide top notch services that clients can appreciate.

 

Freelancing is a fantastic adventure that requires skills that are learned progressively. Very often by working in the Corp. world and then by starting small. This is not an environment that Upwork can offer to apprentice freelancers.


 If Upwork's intent is to be an elitist site, featuring only the best freelancers and the best clients, how is this accomplished by letting everybody and their dog (or cat, which you seem to prefer) join up? Simply being more expensive does not equal being "upscale." 

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Community Guru
Katrina B Member Since: Jan 9, 2011
13 of 41

Well because the fee raise hasn't taken place yet.  This isn't going to happen overnight.  I'm sure that is what they are aiming for but that takes time and resources.  If that is one of the improvements, I will say it again raise the rates.  

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"
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Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
14 of 41

René the point is, that if they want to stop the scammers, then they should erect a flood wall.

 

I do not appreciate the insinuation that I am one of the desperate and needy that Upwork is trying to get rid of.  And if Upwork really are doing this, then why are they continuing to accept desperate and needy people?

 

 

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Ace Contributor
Kate W Member Since: Apr 15, 2016
15 of 41

 

@Rene K wrote:

 

But in the overall it is true that they mostly hunt newbies and desperate people.

 

If Upwork somehow manages to get rid of those, it may have a collateral effect on the scammers' success.



  1. "If Upwork somehow manages to get rid of those" is exactly what I'm talking about. Upwork should be doing SOMETHING about it,.
  2. If by "desperate people" you mean those that underbid jobs by 90%, then yes, they need to go. But Upwork does nothing about that either.
  3. Did you just classify newbies as part of the undesirable element?
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Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
16 of 41

  1. Did you just classify newbies as part of the undesirable element?

Yes, exactly, as I just wrote in one of my previous answers.

 

The thing is, we need to agree on what the word newbie means in this context. Green freelancers without the necessary skills to survive in the jungle of online freelancing would fall into this category. Also would unprofessional wannabees that we see more often that we would like around here.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
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Ace Contributor
Kate W Member Since: Apr 15, 2016
17 of 41

@Rene K wrote:

 Also would unprofessional wannabees that we see more often that we would like around here.


 Huh?

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Ace Contributor
Kate W Member Since: Apr 15, 2016
18 of 41

@Tiffany S wrote:

I don't think that higher fees (leading, potentially, to higher billing) will directly filter out scam artists. Where I think it will help is that if the higher fees are in fact part of an effort to move Upwork upmarket and that effort is successful, then there will be fewer desperate freelancers on the site. Scam artists tend to target those who are in great need of money in the short term, as it makes them more likely to overlook red flags and take chances. So, if Upwork becomes seen as a place where you aren't likely to find that prime market for scammers, the scammers will likely focus their efforts elsewhere.


First off, I'm talking about standard e-mail filters that catch certain keywords or phrases so that the messages don't even get to a user. In this case, a filter looking for "This job is outside Upwork"  probablywould have worked nicely. 

 

My point is that Upwork, as part of it's business model to bring added value that is commensurate to the raise in fees, should be actively working to eliminate scammers from entering the site. Why was this company not vetted, even in terms of trying to cheat Upwork out of money? I hope this isn't one of the reasons Upwork believes it's not making enough money. Anyways, higher perceived value will simply invite higher-value scams when there is no system in place to discourage them.

 

Secondly, did you just say that the new pricing is intended to weed out freelancers who urgently need to make money, calling them desperate and insinuating they're stupid and gullible? 

 

 

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Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
19 of 41

@Kate W wrote:

 

Secondly, did you just say that the new pricing is intended to weed out freelancers who urgently need to make money, calling them desperate and insinuating they're stupid and gullible? 

 

 


I don't know what Tiffany meant, but someone who urgently needs to make money is someone who is desperate. Only desperate, neither stupid nor gullible.

 

One actually can be both desperate and stupid, or smart and desperate, or stupid and rich, or any other combination of adjectives. But I don't think there was anything else meant here than the fact that some people are desperate. And then, vulnerable.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
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Community Guru
Tom R Member Since: Oct 29, 2015
20 of 41

I agree that higher fees on the client side will help but it's not going to be the aboslute answer. It will all depend on  the scammers that are doing the scamming. Scammers, SPAMmers, etc. are _willing_ to spend money when they know they can get a return. It is not unheard of for these people to drop thousands of dollars in a month because their scams have high returns making that few thousand they spent seem like a drop in the bucket.

 

Filterting the messages would also help, if it's their first job posting making them fund it first before posting or a percentage of it may also help deter things. There are options that will work help act as deterents but I don't think there's a 100% deterent.

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