Oct 28, 2013 06:37:40 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 03:45:45 PMbySherlan L
Everyone represents themselves as knowing what they say they can do. Price does not determine a persons knowledge or skill. I didn't pay pennies nor $1. I have spoken to some contractors that charged a lot more than some of the people I hired and had no confidence they knew what the hell they were doing.
This was just my experience that I just felt I needed to share. Not all contractors of course will be bad, but I just happened to have dealt with some poor ones.
Oct 28, 2013 07:57:24 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 03:45:47 PMbyMisty K
I'm glad someone else brought this up actually. It isn't about cheap rates at all folks. It isn't about the highest rate either. It is about misrepresentation of skills. You don't have to pay $40.00 per hour to get excellent websites developed, and you certainly don't want to go to the opposite end of the spectrum and pay very low rates either.
I've been in the median and still have had poor luck. I don't think that those requesting $16.00 per hour and upwards are bottom feeders at all. For a general WP site, there shouldn't be a headache but no matter what direction I've gone I've had awful workers.
They've disappeared, had poor communication, promised to do things that they then were looking up online (checked the time journal) and on and on. I finally went and found a company online that develops websites and had no trouble at all. My sites work fine, the work is excellent, and the labor was very reasonable.
Regardless of the rate, be it high or low, if the individual simply doesn't have the skills for the job (which many don't) then you're going to have a problem. I've even checked links to so called "past work" that is claimed by the contractor but then they can't carry out the same thing again.
I"ve reported it to Odesk representatives, had calls with the main people here behind the scenes, and even been given monetary compensation for the hassle of it all. I just don't hire here for coders or developers because it is too much of a headache when you don't have time to weed through those being honest versus those who are dishonest. Very sad shame...
So, that is my opinion on the matter.
Oct 28, 2013 09:30:52 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 03:45:50 PMbyTony H
The reason why i assumed he hired for cheap and was complaining about the quality of work directly relating to the amount paid was in this passage:
[quote]Hiring these programmers was just a waste of time and money, I would implore anyone looking for a cheaper option to get things done to not waste your time. Better to hire someone that knows what they are doing even if you have to pay them more and someone who you would be able to trust.
Just sharing my experience..[/quote]
Now with that said... I also agree that rate alone does not necessarily imply the quality of work. BUT... also don't forget that those who work for peanuts do so because they don't have better options available. People who are in high demand don't need or have time time to work for less than the top earners. Make sense?
So... when hiring on the cheap, you need to take into consideration that the contractor has not been able to market themselves or ultimately sell themselves consistently as the industry average suggests. They haven't been able to prove themselves yet. If you hire someone who hasn't proven themselves, and don't know the subject you're hiring for.. you're taking a risk. The hiring manager needs to take that into consideration that they are basically rolling the dice on quality. It's a predictive risk. To believe the hype of any contractor trying to sell themselves when they are struggling to find opportunity, is an example of poor managerial judgement.
If they are claiming they have an MBA and saved a billion dollar company from bankruptcy... yet are only asking for $5/hr ... you gotta be a little naive in hiring them with the assumption they are actually who they say they are.
Sure it's possible to get duped from time to time, but an entrepreneur can reduce that possibility with a little self HR education and just general knowledge of all areas of their own business.
The OP's headline is this : Hiring on Odesk is not worth it!
...and then he goes on to make a point about paying more for someone that knows what they are doing.
I don't think anyone was out of line or misunderstanding the point of the OP.
To post on the forums full of contractors (whoops...freelancers), and generalize that oDesk as a platform is not worth it, and more specifically everyone from Pakistan is a crappy contractor... he needs to expect a little blowback, and take some tongue lashings himself for his own inability to manage his own business.
Hiring the wrong people to do a job is the hiring managers fault regardless. End of story. It's not all of oDesk. It's not people from any area of the world, it's not even the rate... it's about being an experienced business person. Period.
I have absolutely heard enough of clients who think they can't be wrong and blame everyone else for their own mistakes. I had a client once who refused to listen to any of his staff, then blamed them all when things went wrong. He fired everyone who didn't quit on him, and he still refuses to think he could be wrong.
These types of people can;t see past their own ego. Its a terrible and costly personality trait for a business owner to have, and I've seen it be the demise of many small businesses.
To come to the forums and blame oDesk as a whole for his poor hiring choices, and belittle each and every one of us contractors in the process is ignorant to say the least.
Oct 29, 2013 05:17:43 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 03:48:43 PMbyMisty K
I know exactly what you're saying and where you're coming from Tony. However, I know you probably remember what I dealt with in the past for a website, and it turned out to be a disaster. The individual claimed they knew exactly what they were doing and I invested thousands for no reason. No SEO, no proper backlinking, the list goes on...
It went from bad to worse. I began interviewing and checking on references, past work experiences they linked me too, etc. The final outcome still turned out horribly. I even tried hiring those who had strong reputations for WP sites, good feedback, etc; but for some reason when I gave my instructions they took days and days following up with me, starting the work, etc.
This wasn't one time, it was every single time. I won't bother mentioning what part of the globe all of this happened in but I'm sure many people have an idea. Needless to say, I lost my trust with any coding experts (or so claimed).
So, I did all my background stuff before I hired and it never worked out. There is no real way to track work history online--especially if there are no legitimate contact means on everything.
And, like I said, I don't have the time to weed out those who are telling the truth from the 100 who are out right lying about what they can and can't do. So, I don't hire here at all any longer. It definitely is too much of a hassle.
It isn't just this, I've noticed jobs here, a lack of clients good will, misrepresenting of contractors, all of it steadily going down hill. The rates for most jobs are just unrealistic, and there is a consistent level of hiring for very low pay that you wouldn't think would happen, but it is. It is more difficult now than it as nearly two years ago when I first came here. More and more just hire very cheap, which leaves professionals who won't budge on their rates (such as myself) gaining fewer and fewer opportunities here.
I don't honestly know how much longer I might stay at Odesk. Too many other opportunities to check into. Who knows--part of life I guess.
On another note, I hope you've been doing well Take care!
Jan 31, 2014 08:14:12 PMEditedOct 30, 2014 04:58:03 PMbyJason R
Not sure why all the crying about paying low rates being the cause (cant see all of what the original poster had to say) of low quality work. People are in competition and this is a world market, and cut throat, if you don't like it as a worker go work in an office because employers don't care what rate your use to getting in your country or at an office job, they care who can bring the most value to their business and part of doing that is getting the best you can for as little as possible. The reality is do I care if you can feed your family better than I feed my own? not a chance that I do!
Anyway cost alone, or even mostly used as a determining factor is no guarantee of getting quality work, or avoiding having your site spammed/hacked or code stolen, so I suspect most people posting here are workers based on the 1 sided opinions. People work for what they want, and some charge low rates because they want to work more often and consistently. Some might have to make a choice of working at an office, or would rather work cheaper from home. What do you think the average trade/working man in the real world would do if they could make even 50% of what they currently earn at their day job (MANY WOULD QUIT AND DO IT), and take advantage of the freedoms that working at home provides. Sorry, but you should work for less when you work from home, and there are good reasons for it, the main one being everybody and their brother wants to work from home so have a lot of others competing for a relatively small amount of employers offering jobs on odesk and this creates competition witch is better than saying "PAY A REAL WAGE" witch is really silly and borderline ignorant to the whole premise of what odesk is here for in the first place.
Its hit or miss weather you pay good rates or not. Even the rating system hardly guarantee's your not going to get a scumbag or incompetent person to do your work for you. From my experience on this site, and others over the years PRICE has almost nothing to do with ensuring your going to get quality work or a quality person to do that work, and you need to do your own testing/investigating of workers you hire, and unfortunately even that can fail, so there is no surefire way to get somebody good no matter what approach you take. You have to take your shot, and ignore anybody that say's pay a decent rate because that is the cause of your troubles, because its not necessarily true, if by that logic it would make sense for all bad workers to just raise their rates high so that they can get suckers who assume a high rate means good quality. Just an illogical mindset to believe paying more money will get you the results you want. I have many cases hired workers for 2/3x less than the predecessor and gotten far superior work, you just have to do you due-diligence when selecting who you hire and hope the product is as advertised.
Any view other than mine should be disregarded and considered the act of an angry worker trying to hold on to the hopes that there hourly rate wont continue to fall as the years pass, so instead of getting more skills lets focus on blaiming the low rate offering employers by using the argument that more is better. I think i learned more isn't better when i was in grade school after i was told by mother that i can eat only candy i liked it so much, well that was great for 1 day, but more candy wasn't better on day 2 when i said ok, I understand now.
Feb 1, 2014 03:52:11 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 04:58:05 PMbyBojana D
Any view other than mine should be disregarded and considered the act of an angry worker trying to hold on to the hopes that there hourly rate wont continue to fall as the years pass, so instead of getting more skills lets focus on blaiming the low rate offering employers by using the argument that more is better.[/quote]
Feb 1, 2014 07:47:54 AMEditedOct 30, 2014 04:58:06 PMbyMarcia M
First of all, not everyone who works remotely works from home. Self-employed people can have offices (and I don't mean home offices) or studios.
Here's an economics lesson for you.
Let's say I have $100 to spend on shoes. I decide that I am going to save money and only spend $10.
Store A and B both sell shoes for $10. Store A sells good shoes that fall apart quickly. Store B sells shoes that are of excellent quality, despite their low prices.
If I buy shoes from Store A and they fall apart, I don't care, because they only cost me $10. I can always buy another pair. In fact, considering that my time has value, it's cheaper for me to buy another pair than to go down to the store and complain or to complain to some consumer organization.
If I buy shoes from Store B, I'm very satisfied. The shoes are great, they're comfortable, and they last a long time without needing repair. For me, everyting is great. But the owner of Store B is going to be looking at what competitors are doing. When they realise they could be selling shoes of the same high quality for 10 times as much and still charging less than competitors, they are going to raise their prices. Nobody is going to sell for less than they have to.
Now, lets say I decide that I'm not going to be cheap; I'm going to spend the full $100.
Store C sells $100 shoes of great quality. Store D sells $100 shoes that are of terrible quality.
I shop at Store C. I'm satisfied with my purchase, the owner is happy because they've made a decent profit. Everything is fine.
But suppose I shop at Store D, where the shoes are terrible, but I don't know this. The owner has made an incredibe profit because he has probably invested next to nothing in materials and labor. On the other hand, when the shoes fall apart after a few days, I am furious. Because I have spent a large sum of money, I have the incentive to do something about the way I was defrauded. I tell all my friends never to shop there. I post on every review sight I can think of. I post on Twitter. I report the company to the Better Business Bureau. Every other person (and there are many) who has had a bad experience with this store does the same thing. Eventually, maybe someone's Tweet gets picked up by someone who works at a local news station and the store is investigated on the news.
Now, getting back to oDesk. Yes, there are freelancers who are very good and are woefully undercharging. If they they research other freelancer's profiles, they will realise they can raise their rates.
There are also freelancers who charge a lot and are awful. But they will either get bad feedback or, if they want to avoid this, refund their earnings. But it is harder to refund $1000 for a job than to refund $25 for a job. And even if bad feedback doesn't go on your public profile, oDesk still has it on record and can suspend your account.
Do you honestly think that someone like Bojana would be able to charge the rates she does, have had the number of jobs she's had and maintained a close to perfect feedback rating if her work was no good? Get real.