Hourly Contract but Client dictates the hours

[don_paolo88]

Hi everyone. I am currently one of the newest freelancers on Upwork on his way to earn a 100% Job Success Score.

Now I have a dilemma. One of my clients whom I am working for gave me an hourly contract. That means I should be paid for all the hours I have worked right?

All my work is tracked using the Upwork Time Tracker. And since Integrity always comes before Excellence, I never am dishonest with my working time.

Now for the main issue: My client gives me work, but dictates the time it takes to finish, even if it is unreasonable. There was one time he asked me to check if 50 serial numbers are similar based on the data in the spreadsheets and in the screenshots for only 1 hour.

Now look. Serial numbers have xxxxxxxxxxxxx amount of information. Trying to input all 50 in spreadsheets and comparing them with 50 other serial numbers in the spreadsheet takes longer than an hour.

It is really annoying that I was only paid 2 hours for work I did for 3 hours as timed. I am suspecting he wants work done for a discount or something.

It is like he is paying me per project when he offered me an hourly contract. And I think that is a mark on my client's integrity. Is there anything I can do for now? I reported him already.

It is the first time I met a client who dictates the number of hours it takes to finish a certain task when some tasks take longer. And this is not an escrow project. It is an hourly contract.

[sjbercot]

I can't tell you how every client works, but in general, my clients are aware of the maximum hours I will spend to complete a given task, and I don't go over that mark unless I've cleared it with them (which practically doesn't happen without a scope change because I bid accordingly). Of course clients can tell you the maximum hours they want to pay for a job! And of course you're free to tell them it's not possible. But if you find you can't complete the job according to their requirements, it doesn't sound like a good fit, whether their expectations are unfair or not. Did you agree to one hour? Did you agree, but tell him it may take longer due to the nature of the project, and find out how he feels about that first? It's usually best to just have open dialogue and clarity over this stuff.

[don_paolo88]

I understand your point but isn't the point of an hourly contract for the FREELANCER to be able to time how long he/she took to complete the job?

He didn't hire me for a fixed price project. This was an hourly contract. Why is he dictating the number of hours it takes for a certain project? Is that even allowed for a client to do that for an hourly contract? With all of the other clients I have worked with whom have given me 5-star evaluations, I timed my own working time.

And I never was dishonest when doing that. Because for me, Integrity always comes before Excellence. And I always remain true to my brand.

[martina_plaschka]

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Don Paolo N wrote:

I understand your point but isn't the point of an hourly contract for the FREELANCER to be able to time how long he/she took to complete the job?

He didn't hire me for a fixed price project. This was an hourly contract. Why is he dictating the number of hours it takes for a certain project? Is that even allowed for a client to do that for an hourly contract? With all of the other clients I have worked with whom have given me 5-star evaluations, I timed my own working time.

And I never was dishonest when doing that. Because for me, Integrity always comes before Excellence. And I always remain true to my brand.

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Why should it not be allowed for a client to voice his opinion on how long a task should take? 

[don_paolo88]

Having an opinion on how long a task should take is okay. But, there are cases when his time assumptions are lower than the time I actually spent working on the task.

And, he does not want to pay me for the extra time I've spent on accomplishing it. This is an hourly contract. Not a Fixed Price Contract. I always use the Upwork Time Tracker to track my time.

[tlbp]

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Don Paolo N wrote:

I understand your point but isn't the point of an hourly contract for the FREELANCER to be able to time how long he/she took to complete the job?

He didn't hire me for a fixed price project. This was an hourly contract. Why is he dictating the number of hours it takes for a certain project? Is that even allowed for a client to do that for an hourly contract? With all of the other clients I have worked with whom have given me 5-star evaluations, I timed my own working time.

And I never was dishonest when doing that. Because for me, Integrity always comes before Excellence. And I always remain true to my brand.

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No. If the client says don't spend more than X hours, and you spend more than X hours, you have breached the contract. 

[don_paolo88]

I did not time the extra time I have worked with the Upwork Time Tracker. I basically did the extra work for free. I never breach contracts. I'm just sad I was not compensated for the extra work I have done.

[petra_r]

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Don Paolo wrote:

 I'm just sad I was not compensated for the extra work I have done.

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You are mismanaging client expectations.

There was also no point reporting the client. It's your job to manage your contracts, set reasonable expectations and manage your clients, not Upwork's.

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I just sent a 2-minute voice recorded message and a few words of encouragement to him.

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Huh?

[don_paolo88]

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Petra R wrote:

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Don Paolo wrote:

 I'm just sad I was not compensated for the extra work I have done.

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You are mismanaging client expectations.

There was also no point reporting the client. It's your job to manage your contracts, set reasonable expectations and manage your clients, not Upwork's.

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I just sent a 2-minute voice recorded message and a few words of encouragement to him.

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Huh?

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So it's alright for the client to dictate how long a task should take in an hourly contract? That means it's okay to treat an hourly contract like a fixed price contract then.

[petra_r · Accepted solution]

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Don Paolo N wrote:

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So it's alright for the client to dictate how long a task should take in an hourly contract? That means it's okay to treat an hourly contract like a fixed price contract then.

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Which part of "It is your job to manage your contract and your client" are you having trouble understanding?

You're running a business (or are supposed to) and that includes managing client expectations. 

If you can't handle the client, stop working with him. 

[don_paolo88]

All right. Just wanted to know what people in the upwork community might think. I tried googling my problem but I don't think anyone had it before since I didn't get any results.

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Petra R wrote:

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Don Paolo N wrote:

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So it's alright for the client to dictate how long a task should take in an hourly contract? That means it's okay to treat an hourly contract like a fixed price contract then.

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Which part of "It is your job to manage your contract and your client" are you having trouble understanding?

You're running a business (or are supposed to) and that includes managing client expectations. 

If you can't handle the client, stop working with him. 

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All right. Thanks for the input. I tried googling my problem awhile ago, but it seems I'm the first person in a long time who has encountered this dilemma.

[petra_r]

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Don Paolo N wrote:

All right. Thanks for the input. I tried googling my problem awhile ago, but it seems I'm the first person in a long time who has encountered this dilemma.

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I'm sure it's happened to many people. They then either manage the situation through open and constructive communication, or stop working with the client.

[wlyonsatl]

Petra,

Who assigns the "Best Answer" rating for a freelancer's post?

[petra_r]

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Will L wrote:

Petra,

Who assigns the "Best Answer" rating for a freelancer's post?

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The OP (original poster - person who started the thread) does

[wlyonsatl]

I see.

I knew the original poster could mark a helpful responding post as a Solution or Best Answer (what's the difference?) but I didn't realize Upwork's moderators also mark posts with either of these accolades until I saw this Upwork video:

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Community-Basics/Tutorial-Video-How-to-Accept-a-Solution/m-p/259913#...

Interesting.

[florydev]

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Interesting.

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Is it? Why is it?

[petra_r]

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Mark F wrote:

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Interesting.

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Is it? Why is it?

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You are playing a lawyer now..... (someone who never asks a question they do not know the answer to)

You know perfectly well "why"

As do I... lol

[don_paolo88]

I just sent a 2-minute voice recorded message and a few words of encouragement to him. I still remain professional even at this time, because I am not the type who gets offended and burns bridges right away.

I just pointed out to him that if I worked for 3 hours to finish a task with excellent quality, I want to be paid for 3 hours. Not 2 hours or 1 hour. That's fair.

Penalize someone who has been dishonest. My Integrity Record stays at 100 %. And I believe I deserve to be compensated for the hours I worked because that's the time I spent to make my client's life easier, especially if the contract is an hourly contract.

[tlbp]

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Don Paolo N wrote:

I just sent a 2-minute voice recorded message and a few words of encouragement to him. I still remain professional even at this time, because I am not the type who gets offended and burns bridges right away.

I just pointed out to him that if I worked for 3 hours to finish a task with excellent quality, I want to be paid for 3 hours. Not 2 hours or 1 hour. That's fair.

Penalize someone who has been dishonest. My Integrity Record stays at 100 %. And I believe I deserve to be compensated for the hours I worked because that's the time I spent to make my client's life easier, especially if the contract is an hourly contract.

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If the client did not provide an hour limitation, you might be able to argue that the work was authorized. However, you are probably not on your way to a 100% JSS. 

[don_paolo88]

I have 3 5-star evaluations and I'm also doing very well with my 2 current clients. I think we are changing the topic here.

[don_paolo88]

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Tonya P wrote:

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Don Paolo N wrote:

I just sent a 2-minute voice recorded message and a few words of encouragement to him. I still remain professional even at this time, because I am not the type who gets offended and burns bridges right away.

I just pointed out to him that if I worked for 3 hours to finish a task with excellent quality, I want to be paid for 3 hours. Not 2 hours or 1 hour. That's fair.

Penalize someone who has been dishonest. My Integrity Record stays at 100 %. And I believe I deserve to be compensated for the hours I worked because that's the time I spent to make my client's life easier, especially if the contract is an hourly contract.

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If the client did not provide an hour limitation, you might be able to argue that the work was authorized. However, you are probably not on your way to a 100% JSS. 

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For example: My client gives me 45 screenshots of 45 serial numbers of products that have been bought in Google Drive. I also have a list of 45 serial numbers of products in MS Excel. I also have to fill in additional 2 columns with extra serial number like specifications. The whole job, as dictated by my client, needs to be done in 2 hours.

I checked the 45 serial numbers in 2 hours and filled in the rest of the serial numbers in 1 hour. My client paid me for the 2 hours, but not for the 1 hour I worked. This is an hourly contract. Not a fixed price project.

That's the scenario.

[moonraker]

Did you agree to the 2 hours before you started? If you did, then that's on you.

If you thought it was unreasonable before you started, then you should not have agreed to do the job. If you were not aware of how long it would take, then this is where one of the main benefits of the time tracker comes in. 

One of the best things about the time tracker is that it helps to ensure that you do get paid for the hours you work. I usually use fixed-priced contracts, but I will ask for an hourly rate if it is a job which I cannot tell beforehand how long it will take. I might guess when negotiating with the client, but I will make it clear that that is a guess and it could take longer than my guess. If that happens, they have a choice. Extend the hours (which they nearly always choose), or accept the job as it is.

If they don't agree to this, then don't agree to start the job.

If you went ahead agreeing to the client's demands before you started then it is something you will just need to put down to experience. No client should be punished for expecting what the freelancer agreed to.

As mentioned, arguing with a client after not having met expectations that you agreed to is likely to result in negative feedback. You might not think that's relevant, but the feedback will still be on your profile as a result of this contract not being managed well. 

[don_paolo88]

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Jamie F wrote:

Did you agree to the 2 hours before you started? If you did, then that's on you.

If you thought it was unreasonable before you started, then you should not have agreed to do the job. If you were not aware of how long it would take, then this is where one of the main benefits of the time tracker comes in. 

One of the best things about the time tracker is that it helps to ensure that you do get paid for the hours you work. I usually use fixed-priced contracts, but I will ask for an hourly rate if it is a job which I cannot tell beforehand how long it will take. I might guess when negotiating with the client, but I will make it clear that that is a guess and it could take longer than my guess. If that happens, they have a choice. Extend the hours (which they nearly always choose), or accept the job as it is.

If they don't agree to this, then don't agree to start the job.

If you went ahead agreeing to the client's demands before you started then it is something you will just need to put down to experience. No client should be punished for expecting what the freelancer agreed to.

As mentioned, arguing with a client after not having met expectations that you agreed to is likely to result in negative feedback. You might not think that's relevant, but the feedback will still be on your profile as a result of this contract not being managed well. 

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Thanks Jamie. Actually, for this certain client. He gives hourly contracts, but dictates the number of hours. I asked him, "What if it takes me longer?". He told me I'm free to continue but the billable time is dependent on his discretion. I'm just confused as this is the first time I had an hourly contract, but didn't have the freedom to base my working time on the Upwork Time Tracker.

Before, I could finish the task in the time he gave me. So, I'm all fine. But this time, he gave me a project he wanted to bill for 2 hours. But, it took me 3 hours to finish the whole thing. I mean, I had to compare the similarity of 45 serial numbers based on screenshots and based on the spreadsheets. If I rushed myself any further, I would have made a mistake.

I was a bit disappointed when he didn't agree to pay me for the extra 1 hour I worked. And I never was dishonest with any client about my working time. That's extra 1 hour of my time I spent for the client.

But hey, making his life easier is my priority. I told him that. If he doesn't want to pay me for the extra hour, it's cool. But I really value my time. So, I might just end the contract if we don't see eye to eye.

[tlbp]

The client did nothing wrong. They communicated their expectations for the contract upfront and you agreed to them. If you don't want to agree to a maximum number of hours in advance of starting your contract, say no to the contract. It is unreasonable to agree to the terms of a contract and then attempt to change them later. 

Your interpretation of what an hourly contract means is not correct. You cannot agree to a limited number of hours and then work for as long as you like and expect the client to pay you. 

[feed_my_eyes]

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Don Paolo N wrote:

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Thanks Jamie. Actually, for this certain client. He gives hourly contracts, but dictates the number of hours. I asked him, "What if it takes me longer?". He told me I'm free to continue but the billable time is dependent on his discretion.

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So you should have stopped right there. Let me simplify the process for you, because it seems like you still don't understand:

1. Client is interested in hiring you.

2. You quote him a fair price (or the number of hours you estimate it'll take).

3. Client indicates that he may not pay you.

4. You say, "Thank you very much for considering my bid, but it sounds like I'm not a good fit for this project."

The end.

[don_paolo88]

Here's the big kicker. The client doesn't believe in the use of the Upwork Time Tracker. He just dictates the number of hours. If you don't like it, he'll probably bully you into giving low feedback.

Good thing I was able to maintain professionalism and still ended the contract on good terms. Time is much more valuable on clients who value your time and the value of work you bring to the table.

[prestonhunter]

Don Paolo:
Not all client/freelancer match-ups are meant to be.

That doesn't mean that either the freelancer is wrong or the client is wrong.

It may simply not be a match.

Upwork can't micromanage these things.

As a freelancer, you can stop working for a client at anytime.

For example:
If a client doesn't want to pay me for the time I spend in video conference meetings with the team, then I would personally stop attending the meetings, or stop working for the client.

That isn't something I can take to Upwork Customer Support and complain about or ask about. It IS something I can go to the Forum and discuss. That is what you have done here. So you're doing the right thing.

A wise client wants to retain talented freelancers. One way a wise client does that is to treat freelancers fairly and pay them for the time they spend working on the project. The wise client doesn't do this because he is more "virtuous" than other people. The wise client does this because he likes $$$. When somebody likes $$$, he is willing to spend a little $ in order to get more $$$.

As a freelancer, if you find yourself working for a client who is not very wise and is instead something of a penny-pincher who is trying to avoid paying you for all of your time spent on the project, then you will decide for yourself whether or not to continue working for him.

[lucioric]

My maxim of today: in hourly contracts, the client is disconforable when the time is extended. In fixed price contracts, is the freelancer that is disconfotable, because sometimes although being a small price fixed contract the client is pitching you, and he finds errors testing the delivered script in a different enviromnent, etc.

[don_paolo88]

Thanks Preston. I was able to still maintain a healthy business relationship with him, but I ended the contract on good terms. Most of the time he dictates for the projects is a lot lower than the actual time it takes to do the projects.

[humairapasha]

I completely agree with Don Paolo and I have faced a similar situation where the client started panicking as the hours were logged. Sometimes clients don't realize how long will a particular job take because they are not from the same domain and then they start labeling you as 'slow'.

I came here to read the answer but unfortunately the accepted answer isn't quite helpful either.