Hourly Job Question - Research/Feedback time

jyoder7 · ‎03-15-2021

I had envisioned that I'd only charge for my hourly jobs when actually writing, but some jobs require reading lots of material the client provides and/or lots of back and forth emails. Others require research. So far, I've not run Desktop App for any of these as there would be very few keystrokes and mouse clicks, and screenshots would simply be me reading their own docs/emails and/or online pages of research.

Should I feel fine using the Desktop App for such tasks, or have I'm been doing it correctly, and the expectation is that I only charge per hour when I'm creating content?

resultsassoc · ‎03-15-2021

I'm a client and expect to pay you for your work. If the job is writing, then it probably should be fixed price because spending extra hours on a writing project doesn't necessarily increase its value. Since the job is hourly, then research time and reading material provided by the client is working. Not so administration of the contract. That's part of your own overhead.

petra_r · ‎03-15-2021

Jeremy Y wrote:
Should I feel fine using the Desktop App for such tasks, or have I'm been doing it correctly, and the expectation is that I only charge per hour when I'm creating content?

The expectation is whatever you agreed with your client during the interview phase and may vary.

It is a conversation that absolutely has to take place so everyone is on the same page.

prestonhunter · ‎03-15-2021

I agree with Bill and Petra.

Clients should expect to pay freelancers for their time.

But not all clients in the world come here with identical ideas and expectations. So as a freelancer, I will want to make sure this is clear before billing time.

wlyonsatl · ‎03-15-2021

Whatever time you are spending to complete an hourly project as agreed with the client should be tracked using TimeTracker whenever possible.

If you are reading documents provided by the client take good notes using your computer.

If you're writing anything else, TimeTracker easily tracks that time.

If you need to use manual time, be sure the client understands why and agrees ahead of time. They can always change their mind and you won't get paid, but good clients keep up their end of the bargain.

So, don't work for bad clients

And join me in asking Upwork to integrate the timer that is already used to track use of Upwork's two communication apps with TimeTracker. The only time a freelancer can be using one of those apps is in communicating with the client, so the freelancer shouldn't need to prove to either Upwork or the client that the time spent was on behalf of the client.

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lysis10 · ‎03-15-2021

Jeremy Y wrote:
I had envisioned that I'd only charge for my hourly jobs when actually writing, but some jobs require reading lots of material the client provides and/or lots of back and forth emails. Others require research. So far, I've not run Desktop App for any of these as there would be very few keystrokes and mouse clicks, and screenshots would simply be me reading their own docs/emails and/or online pages of research.

Should I feel fine using the Desktop App for such tasks, or have I'm been doing it correctly, and the expectation is that I only charge per hour when I'm creating content?

If it's a lot, I charge for it. I recently charged for something like that to read the site and create some questions that I will ask their SME. Took me 2 hours so I charged. If it's just "read the site to see what we do," then I don't normally charge for that because I read it for like 10 minutes and start writing.

a_lipsey · ‎03-15-2021

Generally my philosophy is: if I spend time on your project that keeps me from doing any other work, then I bill for it. I do not understand why "research" would not be billed for. As a client, I fully expect to be billed for time I spend talking to you about my project and time you spend reviewing my documents or anything else I've sent ot be incorporated. If you're using your time on my project, then I expect to be billed.

If you are concerned, then making sure it's clear to the client what you bill for or don't bill for is a good idea. 50% of what I do has to do with reviewing content provided by the client, so I have to bill for it. If I spend 30 seconds responding to an email I don't worry about it. If it's a 5 minutes phone call, I don't worry about it. I have ongoing text threads with clients. I don't worry about it. Anything that starts to go into a 10 minute mark, I start billing for. But I know my work well enough to tell what questions require actually billed time and what questions/conversations are brief texts/answers.

kinector · ‎03-16-2021

Jeremy, this sounds like a fixed price job.

It's good to consider that the desktop app monitors keyboard activity. Not much activity, red flags.

Also, consider what the client expects to pay for. I don't think the client appreciates a slow reader. Your reading speed is irrelevant, I bet.

Rule of thumb: If the work is somewhat hard to define in terms of scope, go for hourly. If the work is hard to track and verify with the desktop app (e.g. reading, research, phone calls, picking coconuts) then go for fixed price. Anyway, the data shown to the client would not proof work being done.

Sounds like you're business model and/or value proposition is not entirely clear yet. Time for reflection.

And lastly a free tip. If you have trouble setting a fixed price for the job, set it by the second-worse case scenario. Only in a disaster case you'd end up losing more time than you get paid for. This strategy has worked really well for me the past 7 years.

In any case never bid with the most optimistic scenario in mind. 😉

kbadeau · ‎03-16-2021

I agree that there are times when fixed rate makes more sense, but I don't know if Graphic Design is different, but I bake the price of research into my hourly rate. If I'm going to have to find stock imagery or new fonts I don't charge for that time. Likewise I don't charge for calls/emails/messages to discuss the project. That would just be too much of a PITA.