Hourly vs. Fixed Price

[baenadaniela]

Hello! I have a client who asked me for one-to-one coaching sessions and ALSO for deliverable documents. He is paying in hours for this job, but I don't know how to charge him because is very different charge for a service session, and for a document. Is not the same hourly rate, but the project allows me to propose just an specific hourly rate.

[prestonhunter]

You can do what's you want, as long as you use the existing Upwork infrastructure and obey Upwork TOS.

If it was me, I would just use one hourly contract.

But if you want to, you can use multiple contracts. One contract for coaching sessions, and one for document preparation. You could use hourly for coaching and fixed-price for document prep. You could use hourly for both but use different hourly rates.

[baenadaniela]

Thanks a lot,

In that case, I should ask the client to create another project? Or I can create myself  the separate contracts when the client accepts my proposal?

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Daniela B wrote:

Thanks a lot,

In that case, I should ask the client to create another project? Or I can create myself  the separate contracts when the client accepts my proposal?

---

Do one job first, and when that is successfully completed, the client (or you) can propose a new contract - do NOT accept two projects at the same time. If things go badly, that would mean that the client could leave you two bad feedback reviews instead of one.

[alexandernovikov]

Caveat here is that two concurrent contracts with one client exposes you to more risk... So better do it one by one, not at same time.

[feed_my_eyes · Accepted solution]

It sounds like you should switch this to a fixed price job. If you're teaching someone, your activity levels will be low because you won't be mouse clicking and typing stuff (I assume) - it's not really the type of job that's suited to using the time tracker. Or, you could use the hourly project to complete his documents first, then after that job is finished and paid for and you're sure that you enjoy working together, then he could create a fixed price job for the instructional part of the project. (I'm curious as to why your hourly rate is so very low, though - that must be below minimum wage in your country?)

[baenadaniela]

Thank you very much Christine. That is a good idea. The thig is I have this very low hourly rate because that is for "click" jobs... Because I didn't expect to find Coaching Jobs... That hourly rate y higher obviously.

I just want to ask you something. When he accepts, I can do the hourly job for the documents, and then create myself the other fixed price job for the lessons? or The client has to create another job offer and such? 
What should I propose him right now that I just have the option to offer an hour rate? Can you suggest me a more fair hourly rate for "clicking-typing" jobs?

[prestonhunter]

If I am the freelancer... teaching sessions are billed using an hourly contract.

There is no deliverable. We don't know how long the session will be. We don't know how many there will be. I am getting paid for my time.

I may need to use manual time if there is not regular mouse/keyboard activity.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Preston H wrote:

If I am the freelancer... teaching sessions are billed using an hourly contract.

There is no deliverable. We don't know how long the session will be. We don't know how many there will be. I am getting paid for my time.

I may need to use manual time if there is not regular mouse/keyboard activity.

---

I disagree - she can certainly give a quote for X number of hours and add another milestone if he needs more time. I don't see the point in setting up an hourly job if it's not suited to using the time tracker.

[prestonhunter]

Christine:

I completely agree with you that fixed-price contracts can be used for tracking sessions, just as you described.

Which is why I said that using hourly contracts is how I would do it if I am the freelancer.

This is my personal preference and not the only way to do it.

I prefer manual hourly time over fixed-price. I think that manual hourly gives me more control over getting paid properly for all of my time spent on the project.

Yes, a client can jam a freelancer up with manual time and avoid paying, but a client can do that with fixed-price as well.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Preston H wrote:

Yes, a client can jam a freelancer up with manual time and avoid paying, but a client can do that with fixed-price as well.

---

At least there's a dispute and mediation process for fixed price, whereas you're just completely out of luck if a client decides not to pay you for manual time. Especially since there's no concrete deliverable here or final files to send him - if the client doesn't want to pay, she can't stop him from using knowledge that he's gained.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Daniela B wrote:

I just want to ask you something. When he accepts, I can do the hourly job for the documents, and then create myself the other fixed price job for the lessons? or The client has to create another job offer and such? 

---

Yes, you can propose a new job yourself, or the client can re-hire you - either way, it's very easy and he won't have to post a whole new job.

---

Daniela B wrote:

What should I propose him right now that I just have the option to offer an hour rate? Can you suggest me a more fair hourly rate for "clicking-typing" jobs?

---

Sorry, I can't tell you what your hourly rate should be. This depends on your skills and experience and what freelancers with similar skills and experience are charging. I was only surprised that someone living in Italy could afford to work for such low rates. You will pay Upwork 20% of this, plus fees for connects, taxes, your various other expenses (computer, software); also, as a freelancer, you get no benefits, no holiday pay, no insurance, and you'll spend a considerable amount of non-chargeable time marketing, bookkeeping, updating your skills etc. When you think about all of this, there won't be much money left over from $9/hour. Freelancers need to charge considerably more money than people with "real" jobs if they want to make a decent living, whereas you're charging less than half of the average hourly wage in your country. (Also, the value of the U.S. dollar has been steadily falling against the euro, so that results in less money in your pocket.)