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alexandernovikov
Community Member

How do i accept work from someone who already left me imperfect feedback?

Hello!

 

Basically, i had a client for who we did a certain amount of work, and he left feedback of 4.5, and as a result, my JSS dropped to 99%. That was around a month ago. The client is happy with our work, he just had no idea that any feedback lower than 5.0 is harmful on this market, saying "straight 5 won't be believable anyway". He wants to hire us again, but a question, is there a way i can accept payment from him that won't put me at risk of a bad feedback? Certainly i don't want to create a new contract, trust is lost. If he gives a bonus to the old contract, will that make things worse by making the "weight" of past "bad" feedback higher and further depressing my JSS? Or a bonus is always a plus, it's a bonus after all?

 

If there's no way, i'll just pass on him. I have a ton of other customers anyway.

 

Alexander

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


Alexander N wrote:

So basically, you suggest that i accept the payment as bonus to old contract, and that will not harm me any further?


Yes

View solution in original post

25 REPLIES 25
petra_r
Community Member


Alexander N wrote:

 

Basically, i had a client for who we did a certain amount of work, and he left feedback of 4.5, and as a result, my JSS dropped to 99%.


The stars themselves aren't what affects your JSS as much as the private feedback. The client was happy, but saw room for improvement, I am not sure why you are so offended by that.

 


Alexander N wrote:

If he gives a bonus to the old contract, will that make things worse by making the "weight" of past "bad" feedback higher and further depressing my JSS?

 


It will not make a difference. JSS is not Dollar weighted at present. The old star system was.

 

 

 

So basically, you suggest that i accept the payment as bonus to old contract, and that will not harm me any further? Good if true.


Alexander N wrote:

So basically, you suggest that i accept the payment as bonus to old contract, and that will not harm me any further?


Yes

bizwriterjohn
Community Member

We continue to focus on only what is a part of the ratings equation.  Hiring clients have a project completion drop-down box to check off and a sliding scale of ratings we do not see.

There is much that affects our JSS that we do not see on the -star rating.  It is entirely possible to see 5-0s granted in public and have hidden responses from clients that adversely affect our JSS.

I use these words when I start a contract.  They do not, to my knowledge, violate Upwork policy.  In short - I say this.

"The moment I click on accept this contract, you hold my ratings within your hands.  My JSS ratings are my billboard.  They are my window to the world.  They are serious: they impact my ability to gain new work and be accepted as a vitally trustworthy resource.  I have two business objectives: deliver perfectly and ensure my ratings reflect this. I can control only one.  I will do my part."

Then I hush up and let the gravity of the situation take hold.  Yes.  Do I say these words.  I do.

They are truth, they are real, they are business-focused, and they help re-inforce, that little bitty-seeming number is actually determinant of our income, in more cases than not.

Food for feast.


John B wrote:

We continue to focus on only what is a part of the ratings equation.  Hiring clients have a project completion drop-down box to check off and a sliding scale of ratings we do not see.

There is much that affects our JSS that we do not see on the -star rating.  It is entirely possible to see 5-0s granted in public and have hidden responses from clients that adversely affect our JSS.

I use these words when I start a contract.  They do not, to my knowledge, violate Upwork policy.  In short - I say this.

"The moment I click on accept this contract, you hold my ratings within your hands.  My JSS ratings are my billboard.  They are my window to the world.  They are serious: they impact my ability to gain new work and be accepted as a vitally trustworthy resource.  I have two business objectives: deliver perfectly and ensure my ratings reflect this. I can control only one.  I will do my part."

Then I hush up and let the gravity of the situation take hold.  Yes.  Do I say these words.  I do.

They are truth, they are real, they are business-focused, and they help re-inforce, that little bitty-seeming number is actually determinant of our income, in more cases than not.

Food for feast.


Great advise. Have inexperience freelancers freak out if they do not get 5* in each category and come here to seek help they do not need. If a client decides that the freelancer failed in his business objectives because the freelancer overestimeted his qualification, it was the freelancer that failed. Telling a client that he is responsible for my JSS is one of the worst advises ever.


Jennifer R wrote:

John B wrote:

drivel


one of the worst advices ever.


Best to ignore drivel, that makes it sink faster....


John B wrote:

 


Hey boomer, I thought you were a Christmas season treat. Are you blessing us on a weekly basis now?

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


John B wrote:

"The moment I click on accept this contract, you hold my ratings within your hands.  


I'd run.


John B wrote:


"The moment I click on accept this contract, you hold my ratings within your hands.  My JSS ratings are my billboard.  They are my window to the world.  They are serious: they impact my ability to gain new work and be accepted as a vitally trustworthy resource.



Translation: You, client, have all the cards. You are officially on notice that I am disproportionately concerned about how you rate me, and that you can likely hold me hostage and get me to do more than you've paid for because I fear low ratings. 

 

Possibly (?), this works for a relatively high-dollar, established freelancer. But, for a newcomer, it's like painting a flashing neon bullseye on his/her own chest.

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Alexander,

 

It's a real pity that Upwork's opaque JSS system has created fear in the hearts of so many good freelancers that a score below 100 is cause for alarm, a certain harbinger of lower future work and pay.

 

If you trust the customer to pay you in full as agreed at the end of the bonus period but you don't trust the client to give you a perfect 5.0 stars and private rating on the extra work, setting up a bonus agreement sounds like the way to go. Just remember that bonus payments are not covered by Upwork payment protection rules.

 

Good luck.

Nobody is perfect.

 

All 5.0 star ratings are mathematically incorrect.

"The moment I click on accept this contract... <snip>

 

If I wrote something like that, most of my clients would respond with something along the lines of "Are you feeling OK? Have I upset you?"

 

Admittedly, I sometimes (only when it's clear that person won't get irritated with such a request) say after a week or so after work is finished something along the lines of "If you have a spare minute to close this contract, it would be greatly appreciated." And if they do, I tell them they're rather lovely for doing so. That's always been more than enough.

lysis10
Community Member


Kim F wrote:

"The moment I click on accept this contract... <snip>

 

If I wrote something like that, most of my clients would respond with something along the lines of "Are you feeling OK? Have I upset you?"

 

Admittedly, I sometimes (only when it's clear that person won't get irritated with such a request) say after a week or so after work is finished something along the lines of "If you have a spare minute to close this contract, it would be greatly appreciated." And if they do, I tell them they're rather lovely for doing so. That's always been more than enough.


lol same, same.

 

OP, I would just go for the money. I have a client who never rates all 5s and probably gives me a 9 on private feedback. I know for sure it's her. She holds my JSS down to 99% but who cares? I still get jobs and have no issue selling people. In this case, I would just go for the money.

atreglia
Community Member


Alexander N wrote:

Hello!

 

Basically, i had a client for who we did a certain amount of work, and he left feedback of 4.5, and as a result, my JSS dropped to 99%. That was around a month ago. The client is happy with our work, he just had no idea that any feedback lower than 5.0 is harmful on this market, saying "straight 5 won't be believable anyway". He wants to hire us again, but a question, is there a way i can accept payment from him that won't put me at risk of a bad feedback? Certainly i don't want to create a new contract, trust is lost. If he gives a bonus to the old contract, will that make things worse by making the "weight" of past "bad" feedback higher and further depressing my JSS? Or a bonus is always a plus, it's a bonus after all?

 

If there's no way, i'll just pass on him. I have a ton of other customers anyway.

 

Alexander


This just happened to me and I wasn't sure what to do either.  My JSS went from 100 to 96, bam, just like that.  For the life of me I could't figure out where I went wrong - still can't because I can't imagine one 93% review tanking my JSS by 4 points.  Anyway, the client is back with another project.  So, I'll just take the bonus.

"The moment I click on accept this contract, you hold my ratings within your hands.  My JSS ratings are my billboard.  They are my window to the world.  This is poetry. This is not mere prosaic text. These are a writer's artistic eaglets, venturing out into the world: small, but strong and elegant.

They are serious: they impact my ability to gain new work and be accepted as a vitally trustworthy resource.  I always admire writers who are able to stretch into two or three sentences what others are able to say using only a few words. I have two business objectives: deliver perfectly and ensure my ratings reflect this. I can control only one.  I will do my part."

Then I hush up and let the gravity of the situation take hold.  Yes.  Do I say these words.  I do. The courage shown by the OP! He does! He does!

They are truth, they are real, Run that through your mind again. Marvel at it: They are TRUTH! They are REAL! they are business-focused, and they help re-inforce, that little bitty-seeming number is actually determinant of our income, in more cases than not.

Food for feast." "Food for feast." That's so deep it lost me. I don't even understand what it means. But it's deep.


Janean L wrote:



Food for feast." "Food for feast." That's so deep it lost me. I don't even understand what it means. But it's deep.


I don't understand what it means, either, but it's making me crave an ice cream bar, for some reason.


Phyllis G wrote:

Janean L wrote:



Food for feast." "Food for feast." That's so deep it lost me. I don't even understand what it means. But it's deep.


I don't understand what it means, either, but it's making me crave an ice cream bar, for some reason.


My guess is it's akin to a portmanteau of food for thought and feast for sore eyes?

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
2a05aa63
Community Member

5 start should be a default rating for a completed job without any unresolved conflicts. Everyone makes mistakes, and only the ones that cannot be fixed or are systematic.

When a client says "straight 5 won't be believable anyway" I bet they will be angry when they get something below 5. They forget they also get evaluated and rated.

If I see a potential client putting low scores without explanation or a "4.0 - everything was great" they become a "withdraw application" client.

I think we should have a thumbs up\down rating. Because this it's more obvious that 4.0 is still positive. And you put a negative only when you had bad experience, not average.


Viacheslav K wrote:

5 start should be a default rating for a completed job without any unresolved conflicts. 


In other words, Passable = Perfect and there is no means to distinguish outstanding work? 

 

I can see where that works great for mediocre freelancers who put in the minimum, but don't you think clients might like to be able to tell who the really great ones are, instead of "didn't actually break anything" and "best freelancer I've ever worked with" having the same numerical value?

The thing that you call "great" I call "mediocore". In freelancing, your "mediocore that includes barely finishing something" doesn't slide. Just look at all the "I'm leaving because no one hires me" post around here.

Doing your job on the agreed requirements with a little extra is enough to get a 5 star rating. If a client don't even explain why they put a lower score, like the OP's feedback - is not ok. You don't have to sacrifice a kidney or hire a psychic to solve your clients secret problems to mantain a 100% JSS. 


Viacheslav K wrote:

The thing that you call "great" I call "mediocore". In freelancing, your "mediocore that includes barely finishing something" doesn't slide. Just look at all the "I'm leaving because no one hires me" post around here.

 

Well, this is what you said: "5 start should be a default rating for a completed job without any unresolved conflicts."

That's pretty much the definition of mediocre. 


Doing your job on the agreed requirements with a little extra is enough to get a 5 star rating.

 

So, then, what rating do you think exceptional freelancers should get. Do you really think that freelancers who inched above the requirements and freelancers who turned in a stellar performance should be rated exactly the same? 

 

If so, why? 

 

As a long-time freelancer, I don't feel like I've earned five stars across the board unless I'm one of the best freelancers the client has worked with. Sure, some things like "meets deadlines" are pretty much yes or no questions. But quality? Skills? Big range.

 

I'm a writer, so I'm going to use an example from that arena. Imagine that a client hires three people to write different blog posts for his website. One post is fine--doesn't excite him much but it gets the job done and he uses it. The second is higher quality than many he's seen and he puts that writer in reserve for the future. The third is such a great piece of content that he decides to build a social media campaign around it, gives the freelancer a bonus, and immediately comes up with another assignment for that freelancer at a higher rate because he wants to make sure he keeps her.

 

Under your system, those three freelancers would get identical ratings. Hard to see how that's good for anyone except the mediocre freelancer. 


 

Tiffany S, I don't agree with you. Working on edge like you have to be better than anyone must be very hard.

Exceptional freelancers increase their hourly rate. But 5$ per hour and 200$ per hour just need to do their job. 

Example: you want to get some coffee. You can get it at McDonald's or at the most expensive coffee shop in town. If you get the coffee and it's fine - that's it. Of course the expensive one will be better most of the time. But you can't bash McDonald's for not being the same, giving them a bad review. You paid 10 time less for it.

I think, overworking yourself is just a way to compensate for not making the main job good enough or not being confident in your skills. Because if it's darn well done you don't need to do anything more.


Tiffany S wrote:

Viacheslav K wrote:

5 start should be a default rating for a completed job without any unresolved conflicts. 


In other words, Passable = Perfect and there is no means to distinguish outstanding work? 

 


That train has already left the station. "Top rated" just means "average", and anything less than a 90% JSS is the end of the world as we know it.


Christine A wrote:

Tiffany S wrote:

Viacheslav K wrote:

5 start should be a default rating for a completed job without any unresolved conflicts. 


In other words, Passable = Perfect and there is no means to distinguish outstanding work? 

 


That train has already left the station. "Top rated" just means "average", and anything less than a 90% JSS is the end of the world as we know it.


It's not though, because I just lost TR (which I will gain back shortly ) and I'm still getting job invites. It's not the life-ending situation people think it is. Does it affect business? Sure. My invites are a little down. So I might send some proposals and spend a few connects instead. But  having your JSS take a hit isn't  going to kill you.  Just like in the real world, one bad review on Yelp won't kill you either. 

This recently happened to me.  I had all 5 star reviews and still do, but noticed my "client who recommend" dropped 10%.  Although one of my clients left 5 stars, they marked me negatively on something I'll never know about.  My JSS will drop and my 100% is gone forever.  It's a hard pill to swallow and it took a bit to get over it, but I did.  I'll continue working and doing my best.

It just would've been nice if that client would have let me know how I could improve.  I'd be more than happy to work on improving, but I don't know what went wrong.

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