How long is the average wait time for a freelancer to get his/her first project

[devries99]

I just opened my account a few days ago and have applied for about 6 projects all of which were just listed. On average what is the wait time between proposing and actually getting the work? Will the client communicate only through upwork?

[robin_hyman]

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Stephanie 'PENNY' D wrote:

I just opened my account a few days ago and have applied for about 6 projects all of which were just listed. On average what is the wait time between proposing and actually getting the work? Will the client communicate only through upwork?

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Welcome to Upwork!  There is no average wait time.  But, you're more likely to get a response if:

* You sent a customized proposal really speaking to the client's needs

* You're applying to jobs with a hire rate > 50% (those below tend to post jobs and never hire)

* You're applying to jobs with less than 10 proposals

Unless you provided an email address, yes the client will and should communicate via Upwork.  Note it could take months before you land your first job.  

[devries99]

Thank you Robin. I didn't know if it was "legal" to give them my email address. Is it? If I recall I think I tried to enter my email address and it flagged me not to do it. 

[robin_hyman]

Yes you can provide an email address (or skype ID, phone number, etc.) and communicate off the platform.  That is ok.  It is NOT ok to be paid outside of Upwork.  

[robin_hyman]

It flagged you to be cautious when communicating off the platform.  

[dsmgdesign]

As far as the average, I'm not sure what that statistic is...Upwork might have it, but good luck getting it from them. But for myself I had to submit about 25-35 proposals before I got my first client. Same goes with other freelancers I know. 

In additon to the recommendations that Robin gave, I would also recommend that you really truly know yourself and your strengths. For example, as a graphic designer, when I started I knew I could design anything. I could do it all.  And, I still beleive that. But, what I learned is that clients don't know that. So, I found that I get more jobs with submitting less proposals if I only apply to jobs where I can show clients the best work that I did in their industry/field, that looks exactly like the type of project that they have. This ofcourse led me to only focussing on a small number of industries. I now ignore the spaces that I have no or little experience in (the real estate space for one), and apply only to those that I do (medical devices, FinTech, etc). Call it a "niche", call it what you will, I think of it as knowing where I have my strength and experience, and prooving it through my past work. 

[devries99]

I guess since I've been self employed for so long I really don't know my niche. I have been sucessful for over twenty years because I never turn down work. I feel like I am a "jack of all trades but master of none" so to speak. But I can't put that on my profile. My forte' is quick turnaround.  

I stumbled across Upwork just a few days ago and I'm not familiar with how it works exactly. I guess I need to work on my profile some more. Thanks.

[dsmgdesign]

Don't think of it as a niche. Think of it as knowing yourself. If quick turn-around is your forte, well that's a good place to start, but you may need to dig a little deeper, just my humble opion. Finding my niche is what works for me, but it doesn't work for everyone. Find what works for you on Upwork, and once you find it, you will be off to the races. 

Upwork takes time. Like anything in life, it's work, it's not easy. Heck it still takes me about 7 to 8 proposals before I hear anything from an Upwork client. You were self employed for 20 years. Wow, that's amazing!  But I bet it took time to build your business. Upwork is no different. You'll stumble alot in the beginning, but if you stick with it and see it through, I bet you'll see some degree of success. 

My parting advice: don't get discouraged, it takes time, and once you find have a few Upwork clients under your belt, learn from got you those clients, and use that to your advantage. 

[grimesr]

I don't know what you put in your proposal, but I would suggest starting over with your profile.

Make the profile results oriented, not  promise oriented. Tell how you have helped clients (or people you work for) in concrete terms, i.e. "saved a bazillion man hours", "increased turn around time by 5 hours"... Your profile tries to say you are great. All of us freelancers are GREAT, so you need to detail how you are different, especially based on your past success.

I don't think anyone cares about your work arrangements, in fact that will sometimes take away for the level of professionalism you are trying to convey.

I my very humble opinion, I would nuke the catch phrase at the end. To me that sounds childish. It might work for general sales, but clients are going to be looking fast and critical.

Read through the forum on others who have asked for help in getting jobs, especially on how to have a better profile. There are a lot of very good ideas out there.

Make yourself outstanding, not just great.

[dsmgdesign · Accepted solution]

Robert has a great point. Def spend more time on your profile...being specific, beefing it up, etc. Also, since you have no Upwork experience, your rate might be too high. I took Upwork's entry level, intermediate and expert levels (and what they mean to Upwork as far as rates go) to mean experience on Upwork not real world experience. But I did have real world experience, and didn't want to start at the entry level rate. So, I started on the low side of the intermediate rate...I think around $25 or $30 and slowly raised it as I built my book of clients. 

[lizablau]

Not sure why you think it's important to waste precious space by telling prospects you have a "detached home office." 

[devries99]

Hi Lisa

I put that in there because I am currently working with others who work from home and it's very annoying to be on a conference call and hear dogs barking in the background. I think it's important to have an area dedicated for an office that's quiet. 

[devries99]

Will adjust my rate.

Thank you for your time.

[devries99]

I'm self employed and have been for a little over 20 years. Early on, architects/engineers did not like the idea of someone working from their home. I always conveyed to them that I have a detached office dedicated to my business. I'm currently working as a government contractor with other people who work from their homes and I cannot tell you how annoying it is to be on a teleconference and hearing dogs barking in the background. 

Thank you for your time and suggestions.

[grimesr]

I believe times have really changed. A professional doesn't allow dogs to be barking, babies to be crying while on the phone, amateurs do. You don't need to say anything, just do it correctly.

From my experience, which is a sample size of 1, I found that lowering my rates impacted my ability to be taken seriously. My market is probably different and I never work on hourly projects. I used to compete for huge projects and could easily do the project for $10k. The companies would always take the named branded companies who bid $10m. I gave up and just did what I felt reflected my worth to the client.

Do as you feel best, just make sure it aligns with what you can offer and deliver.

[devries99]

Great Suggestion. I lowered my rate.

[jr-translation]

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Stephanie 'PENNY' D wrote:

I'm self employed and have been for a little over 20 years. Early on, architects/engineers did not like the idea of someone working from their home. I always conveyed to them that I have a detached office dedicated to my business. I'm currently working as a government contractor with other people who work from their homes and I cannot tell you how annoying it is to be on a teleconference and hearing dogs barking in the background. 

Thank you for your time and suggestions.

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When I look at your profile two things would tempt me to move on right away:

Stephanie 'PENNY' D - There should only be your first name. The 'PENNY' is just wrong. You can use that in your presentation.

Lightning fast - This might be true but to me it also shouts "quick and dirty"

Reading your short profile:
I have done it all. - Will do anything for money but does not really know what we need. I am translator and most translators claim to translate any topic. An honest desription would be: I have no clue, but Google.

I am lightning fast and will practically work any day of the week. -  I am unemployed and need the money.

I..multi task well - I do otherthings while working on your project.

You did "Electrical, Civil, Fiber Optics, Architectural and Mechanical", which sounds much better then "all". Maybe you can make bullet point with more examples. You know specific directives or regulatories, list them to show you are a pro.

I rent an office that

a) is closer to kindergarten saving me ~1h every day

b) prevent DH from suggesting to do things at home since I am there anyway.

But my experience is that clients do not really care about that. They care about the result.

Check out your competitors. It might be worth to sign up as a Plus Member to look at other peoples bids.

Communication can happen anywhere but you need a contract on Upwork to get paid. You will get a warning all the time you mention Skype etc.

[devries99]

I have tweaked my profile. Any better?  

[jr-translation]

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Penny D wrote:

I have tweaked my profile. Any better?  

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Yes, especially the CAD one. You could try not to start every sentence with "I"

[devries99]

I have tweaked my profile. I value your opinion. If you have time I would appreiate any feedback.

[grimesr]

I need to copy my standard evaluation of most profiles.

Tell  how you make a difference, not just what skills you have. Details in concrete terms about how you impacted a client is much more important that giving just why you think you are great. Show how much your work has impacted the client, "saved 10 bizillion people hours", "increased turn around time by 4 hours", ... Everyone applying probably has similar skills as you. How do you differentiate yourself from the rest of the pack.

I get the impression you think getting things done really fast is important. Maybe it is, but that doesn't really mean much in this world, from my experience. Leave it out.

Remember, don't show why you are great, but how you can make your client successful.

[tlsanders]

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Jennifer R wrote:

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When I look at your profile two things would tempt me to move on right away:

Stephanie 'PENNY' D - There should only be your first name. The 'PENNY' is just wrong. You can use that in your presentation.

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Penny, I see that you changed this to just "Penny," but based on the original version I'm guessing that's not your legal name? If it's not, you're going to get into trouble when you get tagged for ID verification--your legal ID must match the name on your profile.

[devries99]

My legal name is Stephanie Penny devries. I go by Penny. That’s why I had it the way it was.

[tlsanders]

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Penny D wrote:
My legal name is Stephanie Penny devries. I go by Penny. That’s why I had it the way it was.

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I agree with whichever freelancer said it looked awkard, but this issue is a bigger one--you could find yourself mucking through a world of red tape when you get ID verified. I would either change it back to what you had or just Stephanie...you want it to look just like your driver's license.

[devries99]

I agree. My drivers license actually has both names as does my passport and SS card so hopefully I won’t be an issue.

[markszoke]

Here is a general tip that might be overlooked by many: when sending a proposal, try to squeeze in the important stuff (what you do, proof that you read the brief, maybe the deadline, etc) in the first 2 rows of the proposal.

More specifically don't send proposals where you say hello in the first line and then leave a blank row after which you start the proposal itself.  It should be more like this in my opinion:

Hello! I am an  XYZ (AutoCad drafter), with X+ years of experience. The job regarding XYZ sounds interesting, etc.... 

The reason being that a client  only sees the first 2 rows of your proposal below your name. If you can't get their attention with these 2 rows, they might not click to see more, especially if they have 50 proposals to go through.

[alexandernovikov]

Not true. I have posted a project as a client and i am seeing this (attached) in proposals while if i open it, it is

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Hello,

I can do this right away. Let's discuss the details.

Thanks,

USERNAME

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So you don't need to squeese the text the way you described. Upwork does it for you.

[alexandernovikov]

 There are no averages since most freelencers NEVER get hired. Not just most - vast majority of them (they are just wannabes and have no chances to be hired whatsoever). But for normal people, which are practically top 1% here, it takes around 30-40 proposals to get hired for the first time, but then it becomes easier. For me, it's around 20 proposals per hire and according to Upwork charts in "My stats", it's slightly worse than average.