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amyrockwood
Community Member

How much do you do before you expect to be hired?

I am interviewing with a potential client....I've interviewed with the person who would be my contact (1/2 hour), then I interviewed with their Senior VP (1/2 hour), and they both like me very much and want to move forward....they want to move forward by me putting together a detailed proposal and agenda for the class they want me to teach.  I asked them to hire me to put together the detailed proposal and the agenda and they seemed to balk.  For me to put together a detailed proposal and agenda will probably take me around 3 hours if not more and they want me to work with someone when putting it together.  I feel I should be hired to put this together for them....am I wrong?

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gilbert-phyllis
Community Member

Ditto what Robin and Petra said. In general, I try to keep pre-contract conversations under half an hour, although there are always exceptions that prove the rule, typically when the opportunity is quite large.

 

I generally avoid giving a client something for free which they can then walk away and use without me. These guys can perfectly easily hire you to produce the three hours' worth of work, and then decide whether or not to hire you for the whole project. OTOH, as Petra said, if it's a big, juicy opp'ty then maybe it's worthwhile for you.

 

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robin_hyman
Community Member


Amy R wrote:

I am interviewing with a potential client....I've interviewed with the person who would be my contact (1/2 hour), then I interviewed with their Senior VP (1/2 hour), and they both like me very much and want to move forward....they want to move forward by me putting together a detailed proposal and agenda for the class they want me to teach.  I asked them to hire me to put together the detailed proposal and the agenda and they seemed to balk.  For me to put together a detailed proposal and agenda will probably take me around 3 hours if not more and they want me to work with someone when putting it together.  I feel I should be hired to put this together for them....am I wrong?


Hi Amy,

 

You are 100% correct.  If they want to move forward and have you put together a detailed proposal and agenda for the class you must be paid for your services - even if it's a small sum.  If it will take you 3 hours, your fee should be your hourly rate x 3 hours = X.  

 

Example response:

 

Jane,

 

Thank you for the opportunity to teach X class.  I enjoyed the conversation with you and George and hope we can work together.  As the next step is to create a detailed proposal and agenda, my fixed-price to deliver by X date is $Y.  Once you set up a contract and assign me the milestone, I can begin.  

 

Best,

Amy

I have had many clients who won’t even talk to me for an initial consultation before hiring me.

 

That is the right thing for clients to do.

A professional, ethical client does not impose upon a freelancer’s time without paying him.


Preston H wrote:

I have had many clients who won’t even talk to me for an initial consultation before hiring me.

 

That is the right thing for clients to do.

A professional, ethical client does not impose upon a freelancer’s time without paying him.


A professional, ethical provider of educational services does not hire a teacher sight unseen and expect others to pay for the class he/she will be teaching.

tlbp
Community Member


Tiffany S wrote:

Preston H wrote:

I have had many clients who won’t even talk to me for an initial consultation before hiring me.

 

That is the right thing for clients to do.

A professional, ethical client does not impose upon a freelancer’s time without paying him.


A professional, ethical provider of educational services does not hire a teacher sight unseen and expect others to pay for the class he/she will be teaching.


A client who pays for someone's time in order to consult with them is under no obligation to continue the contract following that consultation. 

florydev
Community Member


Amy R wrote:

I am interviewing with a potential client....I've interviewed with the person who would be my contact (1/2 hour), then I interviewed with their Senior VP (1/2 hour), and they both like me very much and want to move forward....they want to move forward by me putting together a detailed proposal and agenda for the class they want me to teach.  I asked them to hire me to put together the detailed proposal and the agenda and they seemed to balk.  For me to put together a detailed proposal and agenda will probably take me around 3 hours if not more and they want me to work with someone when putting it together.  I feel I should be hired to put this together for them....am I wrong?


For me, doing what I do, I would have to weight the potential future work against that 3 hours and see how it feels.  The concern, which I have no idea if it is valid in this case, is if you provide this for them will they be able to just walk away at that point and you get nothing?

 

But providing a detailed proposal is something I have to do that a lot because clients are always concerned they are not going to get what they want.  Sometimes I get hired to create it, sometimes I require being hired to create it, and sometimes if I feel there is a big pot at the end of the rainbow I will take a chance.  I once spent two weeks on a proposal for a client (not on Upwork, that would be crazy).

 

I think the situation rides on a lot of factors but a big one is probably...how much do I want the work.

petra_r
Community Member

For me it depends on what the contract is worth and how badly I want it.

If the contract is worth multiple tens of thousands of Dollars and I want it bady, I jump through some hoops quite happily.

 

For small contracts / those worth just a couple of $k I won't.

 

gilbert-phyllis
Community Member

Ditto what Robin and Petra said. In general, I try to keep pre-contract conversations under half an hour, although there are always exceptions that prove the rule, typically when the opportunity is quite large.

 

I generally avoid giving a client something for free which they can then walk away and use without me. These guys can perfectly easily hire you to produce the three hours' worth of work, and then decide whether or not to hire you for the whole project. OTOH, as Petra said, if it's a big, juicy opp'ty then maybe it's worthwhile for you.

 

Thanks all!  Phyllis indeed it is a big fat juicy opportunity and rather than be picky about 3 hours I've decided to go for it and take my chances without being hired until after they've received my proposal.  Crossing my fingers!

tlbp
Community Member

If you want to try to protect your IP, you could suggest a video call in which to present your plan. Don't give them a copy, just use an app that allows video conference attendees to view your screen and present the document using that method. They get to see what you can do without saving it. 

Fingers crossed for you! I think we all have the same bottom line: be intentional about it always, instead of letting clients make presumptions and crowd you into giving away too much.

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