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alves_luis
Community Member

How to curate offers so that the price range is fair globally?

In less than 1 month, I have burned out over 120 connects. I have submitted proposals mid price range. How many freelance jobs I got? ZERO! I have over 20 years experience on UI and UX Design. Now, what's the problem?

Job offers like - Complete website desktop and mobile version
Offers range from 3000 to 100!
How can western countries freelancers compete with this? 100 to work a complete month on a project? This won't even pay my electricity bill in the country where I live!

Complete branding??? Sure - 30 Bucks the lowest bid!
How can I compete with this?

Who is curating these prices? Who's maintaining a fair trade here?
A lot of projects get closed and I see no hires, fake offers? I'm not getting back my connects when this happens.

 

How about making this fair and if I'm not selected for the job, at least get half my connects back?

 

Feeling frustrated here.

 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
wlyonsatl
Community Member

Luis,

 

Competition among freelancers on Upwork is fierce, maybe even especially so in your area of expertise.

 

As a new freelancer, I suggest you focus on establishing yourself as a reliable and efficient freelancer, which can only be done by actually working on projects and getting feedback from clients.

 

Youre extensive experience in the real world is a big advantage for you - your profile can highlight what you have provided to previous clients over the years (which potential Upwork clients cannot verify) and you know what real world clients are willing to pay, so your expectations in that regard are based in reality.

 

But Upwork was set up with the philosophy that it could bring new work opportunities to markets around the world, so there will be cases where freelancers in high cost of living markets are competing with freelancers in low cost of living markets. On Upwork, you are a global business. All global businesses face this problem - Kias cost less than Mercedes, French wine costs more than Chilean wine, etc., etc.

 

And many clients come to Upwork thinking they will get work done at a lower price than they would have to pay a provider of your quality and expertise in their local market. I recommend you initially be happy taking on projects at somewhat lower rates than you would be willing to accept once you have established a reputation on Upwork.

 

Also, keep in mind that many clients don't have any idea what they should pay a freelancer for a specific type of work. In your proposals, you might need to educate them as to why you are the right freelancer at the right price (not an easy thing to do).

 

And it is probably not usually very useful to pay much attention to other freelancers' bids on a particular project. The ranges I see on projects I bid on are sometimes non-sensically high or low.

 

The best clients, the ones I want to work with, are smart enough to know that low-ball freelancers are unlikely to provide quality work. But if a client thinks quality is not a key element of their particular project, I probably don't want to work for them anyway (because I expect they are the type of person who pays no attention to details, doesn't communicate well, pays no attention to how Upwork works, etc.)

 

I don't always ignore these other freelancers' bidding ranges and don't think of them as entertaining in any way, but they can sometimes be moderately useful piece of information.

 

Good luck.

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17 REPLIES 17
prestonhunter
Community Member

**edited for Community Guidelines**

I wouldn't say that.

 

I have been hired by many **edited for Community Guidelines** clients.

But most of my clients are not from **edited for Community Guidelines**.

Luis, maybe this will help: 

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Charging-more-than-a-client-s-posted-budget/m-p/701993#M... 

He's even willing to answer questions, time permitting, if you reply to his post. 

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Luis, 

Please be mindful of your posts in the Upwork Community. We have Community Guidelines in place, and I would like to request to please be mindful of the guidelines when posting in the Community. 


~ Avery
Upwork

Mentioning a population from a specific country is violating guidelines? Can you point the guideline that mentions that?

joansands
Community Member

Luis - Maybe you should improve your profile.

robin_hyman
Community Member

I agree with Joan - your profile could use a re-do.  Client's don't care about your name (it's on the profile) or where you went to school years ago.  They care if you can deliver on their ask.  Without prior experience on the platform, you have to try twice as hard.  Why should the client hire you?  Can you provide feedback from previous clients, a manager, etc?  Can anyone vouch for you?  

 

Also, the first two lines are what a client sees in a search so make sure they stand out the most.  Same goes for your proposal.  Good luck!

Thanks Robin, if you have more sugestions, please share.

dzadza
Community Member


Complete branding??? Sure - 30 Bucks!



lol - I saw that one...quite a long list of final deliverables including brochure, stationery and whatnot...all that for $24 (don't forget that UW gets 20%). and no - it wasn't a placeholder - guy clearly stated that we should not apply if we want more money...

 

the trick is - use connect wisely - from my experience you'll need only 80 connects every 6 months.  forget those "I want all for $5" jobs - there's always 50 freelancers who will bid $5 for $20 complete branding jobs.
and important thing - UW should never, ever be your only source of income...

@Sanja It was not a fixed price offer. It was an open offer, but the lowest bid was 30! Absurd!


Luis A wrote:

@Sanja It was not a fixed price offer. It was an open offer, but the lowest bid was 30! Absurd!


And?

 

Most successful freelancers here routinely bid significantly higher than the budget, and almost invariably several times the minimum bid.

 

I only look at the bid range for entertainment.


Luis A wrote:

@Sanja It was not a fixed price offer. It was an open offer, but the lowest bid was 30! Absurd!


then it wasn't the same one -  the one I checked was very clear about the budget ($30) and about the requirements (many). I can't see the lowest bid, since I have a free membership, but I have a pretty good idea what the lowest bid was, lol

petra_r
Community Member


Sanja D wrote:

Luis A wrote:

@Sanja It was not a fixed price offer. It was an open offer, but the lowest bid was 30! Absurd!


then it wasn't the same one -  the one I checked was very clear about the budget ($30) and about the requirements (many). I can't see the lowest bid, since I have a free membership, but I have a pretty good idea what the lowest bid was, lol


The fun fact (often overlooked) is that the people who bid $ 30 when you would bid $ 300 is NOT "competition" ... The people who are on the same, or a similar level are the competition.

 

The clients who hire the $ 3 an hour people will no more hire me than the people who hire me would hire the $ 3 an hour people.

dzadza
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Sanja D wrote:

Luis A wrote:

@Sanja It was not a fixed price offer. It was an open offer, but the lowest bid was 30! Absurd!


then it wasn't the same one -  the one I checked was very clear about the budget ($30) and about the requirements (many). I can't see the lowest bid, since I have a free membership, but I have a pretty good idea what the lowest bid was, lol


The fun fact (often overlooked) is that the people who bid $ 30 when you would bid $ 300 is NOT "competition" ... The people who are on the same, or a similar level are the competition.

 

The clients who hire the $ 3 an hour people will no more hire me than the people who hire me would hire the $ 3 an hour people.


I agree  100%

Clients will also put an arbitrary number like $5 because they have no idea how much the project should cost.  They want to see what freelancers charge.  I've bid for those $5 projects and have earned $1K+ from them.  I also don't limit myself to their budget.  If I see $25-$70, I may bid $75.  And guess what?  I've won.  

 

This past week I bid on a $150 project, submitted $175 and won.  Client was awesome to work with and provided great feedback.  And it only took an hour of my time.  

 

You just need to figure out which ones to apply to taking in account their previous projects (if any) and not going too high.  You're only gambling a few minutes of your time and a nominal fee on connects.  

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Luis,

 

Competition among freelancers on Upwork is fierce, maybe even especially so in your area of expertise.

 

As a new freelancer, I suggest you focus on establishing yourself as a reliable and efficient freelancer, which can only be done by actually working on projects and getting feedback from clients.

 

Youre extensive experience in the real world is a big advantage for you - your profile can highlight what you have provided to previous clients over the years (which potential Upwork clients cannot verify) and you know what real world clients are willing to pay, so your expectations in that regard are based in reality.

 

But Upwork was set up with the philosophy that it could bring new work opportunities to markets around the world, so there will be cases where freelancers in high cost of living markets are competing with freelancers in low cost of living markets. On Upwork, you are a global business. All global businesses face this problem - Kias cost less than Mercedes, French wine costs more than Chilean wine, etc., etc.

 

And many clients come to Upwork thinking they will get work done at a lower price than they would have to pay a provider of your quality and expertise in their local market. I recommend you initially be happy taking on projects at somewhat lower rates than you would be willing to accept once you have established a reputation on Upwork.

 

Also, keep in mind that many clients don't have any idea what they should pay a freelancer for a specific type of work. In your proposals, you might need to educate them as to why you are the right freelancer at the right price (not an easy thing to do).

 

And it is probably not usually very useful to pay much attention to other freelancers' bids on a particular project. The ranges I see on projects I bid on are sometimes non-sensically high or low.

 

The best clients, the ones I want to work with, are smart enough to know that low-ball freelancers are unlikely to provide quality work. But if a client thinks quality is not a key element of their particular project, I probably don't want to work for them anyway (because I expect they are the type of person who pays no attention to details, doesn't communicate well, pays no attention to how Upwork works, etc.)

 

I don't always ignore these other freelancers' bidding ranges and don't think of them as entertaining in any way, but they can sometimes be moderately useful piece of information.

 

Good luck.

Hi Will,

Thank you very much for your time on providing such a detailed insight. I want to apologize to everyone but yesterday when posting this I was really feeling frustrated.

 

Your insight and other members were really worth reading and I thank you very much for your time.

Kudos to you all, you're awesome.

researchediting
Community Member


Luis A wrote:

In less than 1 month, I have burned out over 120 connects. I have submitted proposals mid price range.


In most markets here, there is no "mid price range." There is a top range that in some markets is the same as that in the brick-and-mortar world; in other specialties, rates here can be significantly lower than through other channels, but typically not absurdly so.

 

Then there is the bottom range, populated by wannapreneur clients and desperate workseekers. As has been mentioned, if you have decent skills and experience, that is not your market; those are not your competitors.

 

The problem with trying to split the difference is that the cheapskates won't/can't buy at those rates—and why should they? More professional clients, on the other hand, won't take seriously rates that are seriously out of line with the market they're buying in, nor the contractors who offer them.

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