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ericaandrews
Community Member

How to spot a scam : Example - every RED flag in one post

For the NEW folks - red flags -an illustration:

 

Short, vague description written in a 'rush'.  If the client can't take the time to EXPLAIN the job, you shouldn't waste time or connects EXPLAINING why you are qualified for a job that wasn't DESCRIBED clearly. 

 

Payment method not verified. 

 

No previous hires.

 

No client  'rating'.

 

Just joined UW within the past few days/weeks, sometimes "same day". 

 

$0 spent on Upwork so far. 

 

Offering an outrageous / unbelievable hourly rate. ($800/hour).  - UW could EASILY block these types of bogus posts.  If somebody is offerning more than $150-200/hour for ANY job, the post should automatically go to a 'review' folder for Upwork to REVIEW and  APPROVE before the public sees it, to ensure it is LEGIT. 

 

Posted from a country known for sending out a high volume of email/internet scams to commit fraud and identity theft.  (Hasn't everybody in the world been emailed by that "prince" that needs you to "cash" his check into your back account by now?).  I think this is that same 'prince'.

 

The client 'checking' their 'job' post at odd hours of the day: In this case "9 minutes ago" when it's 5:00 AM in their timezone.  Legitimate clients that WORK for a living are not normally up all night responding to incoming 'freelancer' proposals.  That's not normal. It's just not. 

 

So much for UW 'cracking down" on fraud and scams. 

 

Sadly, "20-50" freelancers wasted connects applying for this nonsense. 

 

Yes, I 'flagged' it, but I doubt it will be taken down.  Posts like this rarely are taken down anymore. 

**edited for Community Guidelines**

16 REPLIES 16
AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Thank you for sharing this here, CJ. 

I tried to locate the job post you mentioned on your post, but it looks like it has already been taken down. Could you please clear your browser's cookies if you can still access it?

I want to discuss your concern about clients with unverified payment methods. Clients can post a job before verifying their payment method and completing their company information with address and other details. Clients need to provide this information first before they can hire a freelancer. So clients who don't have verified payment methods and details about their location are likely just new. 

 

If the payment method is unverified, the client has not yet added a payment method on file, and any work done on a contract without a verified payment method will not be covered by payment protection. When communicating with a client before accepting the offer or starting work, we recommend freelancers to speak with their clients about verifying their payment method, as this would benefit both parties in having payment protections in place.

 

We do not wish to discourage freelancers from sending proposals to clients who are yet to verify their payment method. However, we always recommend freelancers be wary of clients who raise red flags and consider the recommendation I noted above so that they can work safely on Upwork. 

The Community is also welcome to check out this blog post by our Trust & Safety Product Manager, Jason Mitchell, which shares tips on spotting a scam.

 


~ Avery
Upwork

Understood, but the PATTERN is that most of these scam artists have 'payment unverified' and MOST  - easily 95%+ of clients with 'payment unverfied' NEVER actually HIRE anybody and either are posting scams or job ads they 'abandon' and never look at again.  

 

Of COURSE, Upwork does not 'discourage' freelancers from wasting connects on stuff like this because it is to your company's economic advantage to encourage the freelancer to try to 'convert' the new client into a paying client or to 'use up' all of their 'connects' applying to jobs posted by 'new' clients that aren't serious, causing them to have to BUY more 'connects' to keep submitting proposals.  Yes, there are EXPERIENCED freelancers that know which 'new' clients to submit proposals too and how to 'talk' them into becoming paying clients, but most NEW freelancers do not know how to do this and are simply going to waste connects and time and/or get scammed.

 

 

However, I as someone who has USED this site for quite a while and know the vast majority of "payment unverified' posts are a waste of time that never turn into a billable, PAYING job am sharing what I have learned with the NEW people.  Easily 95%+ of the 'new' clients that don't have a verified payment method  NEVER go on to put a verified payment method on file and actually hire somebody.  Yes, there is a 'needle in a haystack' chance 1 in a 100 MIGHT becoming paying clients, but for a NEW freelancer they are more likely to waste 'connects' or get SCAMMED responding to these 'payment unverified' posts.  For a NEW freelancer that doesn't know all the scams being run on this site, the SAFEST approach is to submit proposals to companies with an established reputation on the platform who have been PAYING money for a while.   MOST 'payment unverified' posts are spam, scams, and clutter on the the job boards that don't lead to real, paying jobs.    Most of these people are not just 'new': Most of them have no intention of HIRING anybody.  I'd like to see Upwork provide some statistics on what percentage of 'new' clients actually go on to create a verified payment method and hire somebody within 30 days after joining the site, because I'm guessing it's under 5% at best.   

 

I never said "Upwork discourages" submitting proposals to 'new' clients, but I have simply said I discourage it for new freelancers based on my EXPERIENCES here. 


CJ A wrote:

I'm guessing it's under 5% at best.   


If you say so... Just filter them out then,

I have made too much money from and had too many great experiences with such clients to take that even remotely seriously.

 

But I thank you for your post, the more freelancers are swayed by such horror-stories, the more contracts are available to those of us who positively enjoy working with new clients.

 

If you don't want to see job posts from clients with an unverified payment method, simply filter them out, then you'll never have to see one ever again.

 

Problem solved.

Thanks so much. But what about those client that set out their budget on a particular job posted? 

petra_r
Community Member


CJ A wrote:

Payment method not verified. 

No previous hires.

No client  'rating'.

Just joined UW within the past few days/weeks, sometimes "same day". 

$0 spent on Upwork so far. 


None of those things, in isolation, are red flags at all, let alone signs of a scam.

All of the above just say "new client".

 

Having made many tens of thousands of Dollars from such clients, and expecting to continue to do so, I would never consider those factors to be red flags, I consider them opportunities.

martina_plaschka
Community Member

The thing is, people that fall for scams have neither read the ToS, nor come to the forum to educate themselves. We only see the posts from people that either have been scammed, for who it is too late now, or are asking if something is a scam. These are the ones applying common sense, even when they haven't bothered to read the ToS. 

Many people have been asking for the one thing that would take care of the problem: a meaningful entrance test, before people are approved and jump into it, without looking if the swimming-pool has any water in it. 

wescowley
Community Member

It would be helpful to have a post with all common red flags in one place. Unfortunately, this isn't it. With the exception of the outrageous rate, none of these things I'd (and I think most experienced freelancers), would consider a red flag. 

 

As Petra pointed out, the first several just indicate a new client. 

 

Re the odd hours: I often start work around 5 am my time (I'll blame that on the dog). I have clients in the same time zone that start work earlier than that. I regularly get mail and messages from clients in the middle of their night. People work at whatever hours are convenient to them or that their backlog requires.

 

abbas_tauseef
Community Member

I get queries every-now-and-then from new clients with unverified payment methods and 95+ percent of them become my regular clients. However, I have to spend a few extra minutes guiding them how to verify their payment methods and how to hire me. Most of the times I propose custom offers to them as well. 

And, just because of these new clients, I haven't been applying to jobs for weeks now because I get more than five new contracts through my project catalog from most of 'the new clients'.

00aef8a2
Community Member

This is soo true I remember upwork was a great platform when i was a teenager but i didnt have much knowleadge back then about upwork and i joined recently and i have lost more than half of my connects my bidding on scammers it would be really great if upwork can act on number of scammers getting into the platform to prevent wasting of time of freelancers plus to protect quality of the plaform

You don't lose connects on scammers, you get them back when upwork takes the job postings down.

You don't lose connects in general, you invest them into your business. 

 

"If" upwork takes the job postings down. And even then, that can take awhile, then longer for you to get them back. As we hear all the time, lots of people can't afford to buy more and therefore can't apply to jobs while they are waiting for that to happen.

pgiambalvo
Community Member

Stiil as valid as when you first posted this.

Hey, just wanna thank you all who refuse new clients and don't bid without a verified payment method. I appreciate your reserving those jobs for those of us who know how to profit by them.

🤑🤑🤑🤑🤑

dsmgdesign
Community Member

"Payment method not verified. "

 

I LOVE when freelancers stay away from this. Please keep staying away. That gives me less competition! Haha!

 

 

That's just one thing to be considered along with the others, not an automatic sign to stay away. Besides, who's afraid of competition? Not me.

9f607a75
Community Member

I am in the process of getting hired and I asked the client to verify payment so that I don't have to worry about getting paid. That I won't start the job until they are verified. 

What about the ones that have phone numbers, or emails. Are we supposed to flag them?

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