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jr-translation
Community Member

Why do you keep telling me to pester my clients?

You already send me a "reminder" on Friday making it two in less than a week after the last milestone has been completed. What are you trying to achieve with these messages?

 

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38 REPLIES 38
wescowley
Community Member

I've also started getting spammed with this notification from the Upwork Android app. 

 

Upwork - please make it stop. This notification is not helpful. I know when to suggest new milestones or contracts to clients. And that process doesn't start with the add milestone screen, which is where this notification directs to. It starts with messages or emails.

VladimirG
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Jennifer and Wes,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience in the Community. I'm following up with our team and will provide more insight regarding the notifications you referenced as soon as possible.

~ Vladimir
Upwork
VladimirG
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Jennifer and Wes,
 
As an update, I can confirm the notifications you received are part of a test we're running, prompting a limited number of freelancers and clients to follow up on certain open Fixed-Price contracts and consider proposing new Milestones to keep them going. We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting. We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work. We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

 

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? We'd love to hear your feedback.

~ Vladimir
Upwork


Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Jennifer and Wes,
 
As an update, I can confirm the notifications you received are part of a test we're running, prompting a limited number of freelancers and clients to follow up on certain open Fixed-Price contracts and consider proposing new Milestones to keep them going. We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting. We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work. We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

 

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? We'd love to hear your feedback.


As an experienced freelancer I know how to handle my clients and most milestones are paid with the message that the client will reach out again for additional work when they are ready. Some clients have a weekly milestone. So when they released it on Tuesday there is no need to ask for a new milestone on Friday and then again on Monday.

As an experienced freelancer I know not to pester my clients and keep begging them for more work. Unexperienced freelancers might come to the conclusion that this is how freelancing works.

 

As a client I hate freelancers that keep begging for work and block them after asking them politely to refrain from asking for additional work because that just interupts my work and is a waste of my time as a client.

 

By sending these message to one or both parties of a contract you are messing with the communication between client and freelancer.

I haven't received any of these "nudges" but if I did my response would be the same as Jennifer's and Wes's. Communicating clearly and appropriately around staying in touch and additional/follow-up work -- supporting and collaborating with a client without pestering them -- is a key part of managing client relationships and it can't be learned or sustained via automated prompts from the platform. FLs who know what they're doing will find such a notification unnecessary and annoying. Inexperienced FLs will take the wrong message and the wrong lesson. It's like a Worst Practices feature.

 

This is yet another instance of trying to treat a symptom instead of addressing the root issue: too many inexperienced and clueless FLs who don't know what they're doing. If UW insists on admitting these folks to the platform, then please help them learn what they need to know to succeed, instead of looking for ways to dumb down the platform to accommodate their ineptitude.

 


Phyllis G wrote:

... instead of looking for ways to dumb down the platform to accommodate their ineptitude.

 


That!!


Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Jennifer and Wes,
 
As an update, I can confirm the notifications you received are part of a test we're running, prompting a limited number of freelancers and clients to follow up on certain open Fixed-Price contracts and consider proposing new Milestones to keep them going. We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting. We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work. We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

 

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? We'd love to hear your feedback.


Thanks for following up. My feedback is that these messages are unneeded, unwanted, intrusive, and harmful to client/freelancer relationships. I agree with everything in Jennifer's response.

 

Any nudges you give to freelancers on things like this should be focused on encouraging them to communicate with their clients about needs and future work. Instead, this prompt encourages an out-of-the-blue milestone suggestion. If I were a client receiving one of those milestone suggestions without any prior discussion, I'd likely just close the contract.

 

When I submit a milestone, I usually already know if there will be more milestones or not, because I've already had that discussion with the client. 

 

Where there's ongoing ad hoc work, we've usually agreed on a pricing formula ($ / word) and they send a milestone when they have work ready for me. I don't nudge them unless they've told me something's coming on a certain day and I've blocked time out for it. In other cases, clients send me work when they're ready and I'll price it and send them a milestone request based on it. 

 

But in most cases, my contracts are for single milestones. For those, I send the milestone submission and ask them to approve it and close the contract unless they have other needs to discuss.

 

And there are some, rare, cases where I submit a milestone and absolutely do not want another one with that client. I definitely do not want Upwork sending a nudge to the client in those cases.

 

The key is communication between the freelancer and client. We are the ones who know (or should know) the flow of our work, and, when it's not flowing as expected, we're the only ones who know that. Upwork does not and cannot know that. I know when to nudge a client because I've talked with them and know when to expect work from them (and when it's late coming).

 

So, for experienced freelancers, these nudges from Upwork are an annoyance at best.

 

For inexperienced freelancers, they send the wrong message. Just like the weekly check-in thing, these nudges discourage communication by encouraging freelancers to submit milestone suggestions without talking to the client ahead of time. 

 

Turn it off, please.


Vladimir G wrote:


We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting.

Is Upwork seriously thinking "waiting" for milestones is a problem? Then tell these "talented" **edited for community guidelines** not to do so. Successful freelancers don't wait, we hustle. We schedule. We tell clients and prospects what our time constraints are. If they drop the ball, that's not our problem. When they resurface, we fit them into our schedules—or if they are committed to a course of dilatory fecklessness, maybe not.

We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work.
What!? Clients "forget"!? Well, ain't that just too **bleep** bad. "Ooh, I can't keep track of my contract, and now my work is delayed because I'm a **Edited for Community Guidelines**. Help me, Uppi-Work Kenobi, you're my only hope." Please.
We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

Seriously, Upwork, keep your "nudges" to yourself.

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released?

No. As others have said, it's the exact opposite of how we plan and communicate with clients. Suck up your stats and let us do our jobs.

We'd love to hear your feedback.

Done.


 

"Dilatory fecklessness" - Michael wins the internet today.  Bravo.


Mary W wrote:

"Dilatory fecklessness" - Michael wins the internet today.  Bravo.


Thanks! Let's not forget Jennifer R's original defining linguistic contribution of "pester."


Mary W wrote:

"Dilatory fecklessness" - Michael wins the internet today.  Bravo.


Well, I had to look up "dilatory" ... so yes, Michael did indeed win the internet today.


We'd love to hear your feedback.

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? 


No


Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Jennifer and Wes,
 
As an update, I can confirm the notifications you received are part of a test we're running, prompting a limited number of freelancers and clients to follow up on certain open Fixed-Price contracts and consider proposing new Milestones to keep them going. We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting. We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work. We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

 

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? We'd love to hear your feedback.


Did you message both parties of the same contract at the same time? Should I reach out to my client and tell him that I did not initiate these messages?


Jennifer R wrote:


Did you message both parties of the same contract at the same time? Should I reach out to my client and tell him that I did not initiate these messages?


Jennifer - I can't prove it, but I suspect they did. Two different clients closed contracts shortly after I got the nudge notification about their contracts. There wasn't going to be another milestone on those contracts, so no harm in that regard, but it's not exactly the intended effect.


Wes C wrote:

Jennifer R wrote:


Did you message both parties of the same contract at the same time? Should I reach out to my client and tell him that I did not initiate these messages?


Jennifer - I can't prove it, but I suspect they did. Two different clients closed contracts shortly after I got the nudge notification about their contracts. There wasn't going to be another milestone on those contracts, so no harm in that regard, but it's not exactly the intended effect.


It might do less harm if you have closed enough contracts with 5* but if this happens to a new freelancer and the client leaves a poor private feedback (will not hire again because the freelancer is pestering me) the damage is done.


Jennifer R wrote:


It might do less harm if you have closed enough contracts with 5* but if this happens to a new freelancer and the client leaves a poor private feedback (will not hire again because the freelancer is pestering me) the damage is done.


Very good point.


Jennifer R wrote:

Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Jennifer and Wes,
 
As an update, I can confirm the notifications you received are part of a test we're running, prompting a limited number of freelancers and clients to follow up on certain open Fixed-Price contracts and consider proposing new Milestones to keep them going. We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting. We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work. We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

 

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? We'd love to hear your feedback.


Did you message both parties of the same contract at the same time? Should I reach out to my client and tell him that I did not initiate these messages?


Hey Upwork,
did you spam my client with the same message?

Hi Jennifer,

 

As Vladimir shared in his reply, yes, we're testing these notifications for both freelancers and clients. We will not be able to discuss the specifics about a test while it's running but we do appreciate your feedback.

~ Valeria
Upwork


Valeria K wrote:

Hi Jennifer,

 

As Vladimir shared in his reply, yes, we're testing these notifications for both freelancers and clients. We will not be able to discuss the specifics about a test while it's running but we do appreciate your feedback.


I asked a follow-up question which has not been answered:
Did you message both parties of the same contract at the same time? Should I reach out to my client and tell him that I did not initiate these messages?

In other words: Is Upwork's interference in an ongoing contract the reason that my client decied to hired another freelancer to do "my" job instead of adding another milestone to the existing contract?

Hey Jennifer,

 

I'm a Product Manager at Upwork and part of the team working on this. Thanks for your feedback and questions so far.

 

To your question: No, we do not message or prompt the client at the same time. We do not send clients a nudge to propose another milestone either.

 

We only nudge the client when a freelancer has proposed a milestone but the client has not been responsive to it after a time period. We're testing this client-facing nudge because we have heard feedback on this and we want to make sure clients respond to freelancers' milestone proposals in a timely manner so freelancers' can get an answer on their proposal to plan ahead.


Shreman S wrote:

Hey Jennifer,

 

I'm a Product Manager at Upwork and part of the team working on this. Thanks for your feedback and questions so far.

 

To your question: No, we do not message or prompt the client at the same time. We do not send clients a nudge to propose another milestone either.

 

We only nudge the client when a freelancer has proposed a milestone but the client has not been responsive to it after a time period. We're testing this client-facing nudge because we have heard feedback on this and we want to make sure clients respond to freelancers' milestone proposals in a timely manner so freelancers' can get an answer on their proposal to plan ahead.


It's absolutely unconscionable that you test this kind of thing on active, ongoing relationships. Since you insist on doing so, the feedback you've gotten on this one should be the equivalent of a tested drug making people sicker and prompt you to pull the plug on the test immediately. Please stop using us as guinea pigs! Please invest the time and money to do proper stakeholder research, then you won't have to depend on anecdotal input and "tests" that interfere with live money-making activities.

 

tlbp
Community Member


Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Jennifer and Wes,
 
As an update, I can confirm the notifications you received are part of a test we're running, prompting a limited number of freelancers and clients to follow up on certain open Fixed-Price contracts and consider proposing new Milestones to keep them going. We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting. We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work. We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

 

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? We'd love to hear your feedback.


I question this characterization. You must be referring to people who have a skill at which they may be talented but lack the necessary skills required to be a successful freelancer. No successful freelancer I know waits for work to come to them and they certainly know how to check in with their clients without being prompted to do so. 

As an experienced freelancer with 460+ jobs...this notification provides no value what so ever. I know how to handle my clients, I know what to suggest or not. All it does is create dissapontment when I see a notification thinking its an invite or a message, only to get a useless notification. Please understand de-cluttering is important for many - these things are disruptive and annoying. Please make it stop.

 

PS: You don't just suggest a milestone to keep a project going, you write the client nicely and ask if they need anything since you havent heard from them for a while. The client may then tell you what they need, you agree on a price and deadline, and then they add a milestone. Where did you guys even get this idea with freelancers suggesting milestones? It doesnt fit at all with how a professional handles client relationships.


Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Jennifer and Wes,
 
As an update, I can confirm the notifications you received are part of a test we're running, prompting a limited number of freelancers and clients to follow up on certain open Fixed-Price contracts and consider proposing new Milestones to keep them going. We've heard from our talented freelancers that sometimes they have to wait for milestones and work to be added by clients, which makes it harder to take other jobs and keeps them waiting. We've heard from clients that they sometimes forget to add and fund a milestone, which delays their own work. We're testing these notifications - one each for freelancers and clients - to see if this will be a helpful nudge.

 

As experienced and successful freelancers, would you say that this initiative correlates to the approach you're taking to planning and communication with clients on open contracts on which all Milestones have been released? We'd love to hear your feedback.


Experience and success are relative, but I'll give two cents! I manage several active clients at a time and keep pretty dynamic schedule. Not only does this initiative provide zero value for me and how I communciate with clients, I can see the potential for harm to communication and the professional relationship for both experienced and inexperienced freelancers. I don't need to restate all the thoughtful, critical reasons already listed by other freelancers. Just wanted to chime in and say it's not for me and is probably bad for the platform.

I may be able to see the value in a prompt for clients, but I'm a fan of not bugging clients, so I would hesitate to support it.

May I please ask to be removed from this test project, or could you provide an option to unsubsribe from the notifications? I get several every day and would like it to stop if possible. Thanks!

Hi Erik,

 

Thanks for the message and apologies for the delay in following up on it. I shared your request with our team and you shouldn't receive these prompts moving forward.

~ Vladimir
Upwork



Hi Vladimir,

 

Please remove my name from that list too. I just received one of those godawful reminders and it is ridiculous. I am an experienced professional with more than 12 years of experience in my field and with 100% JSS on Upwork, and I definitely know how to work with clients - do not need Upwork's unsolicited "help" for that. And please advise the product manager in charge of this initiative to get some freelance experience in the real world himself before "designing" tests that achieve nothing but annoy and antagonize Upwork´s most successful freelancers.  

 

Thanks

Hi Gergana,

 

Thanks for the message. I've shared your request with the team and I'll follow up with you directly with an update. Thank you.

~ Vladimir
Upwork
youssefbahaa
Community Member

"Still working with "Client", propose a new milestone to keep the contract going!"


Hey Guys, I am just wondering if any freelancer finds this message useful in any way. And if there is any way to disable receiving it.
To be honest, It makes zero sense to me. Because many clients just prefer to keep the contract open and add new milestones (Whenever) they have new work that needs to be done. It would be weird if I proposed a milestone myself out of the blue. 

 

Wish you all a great life!


Youssef B wrote:

"Still working with "Client", propose a new milestone to keep the contract going!"


Hey Guys, I am just wondering if any freelancer finds this message useful in any way. And if there is any way to disable receiving it.
To be honest, It makes zero sense to me. Because many clients just prefer to keep the contract open and add new milestones (Whenever) they have new work that needs to be done. It would be weird if I proposed a milestone myself out of the blue. 

 

Wish you all a great life!


The only thing these messages do is trigger inexperience freelancers into pestering their clients.

That's true too!

Hi Youssef,

 

Thanks for sharing your experience with us in the Community. I shared your request with our team and I'll follow up with you directly next week with an update.

I moved your posts to an existing thread on the same subject, in which we shared more information about the test and the prompts you're seeing.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Hi Vladimir, Thanks for your consideration. I will be waiting for you and I am sure that you are doing your best to give the users a nice experience.

Have a great day!

Q: How can I terminate suggestions from Upwork?

 

E.g. I have a client for whom I write 2 texts every month. That's our deal. But Upwork keeps sending me emails urging me to propose an extra new Milestone. No, I will not, because that is not the deal.

 

I also get a list of suggestions for new jobs. Jobs that don't match my skills.

So useless and annoying e-mails and notifications.

Please stop or tell me how to stop it.

 

 

NB This is already off:

Communications from Upwork
Send me genuinely useful emails every now and then to help me get the most out of Upwork

Hi Do,

 

Our team has reached out to you via ticket to assist you further with your email notifications and your account. You can access your tickets on this Link, thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork

Can we see the solution proposed? It might be helpful to someone else (including me).

Thanks.

VladimirG
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Elisa,

 

Could you please confirm you'd like to be removed from this test?

I'm moving this conversation to the main thread discussing the test.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Hi Vladimir, 

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I would like to be removed from this test - for good and, possibly, within a short timeframe.

 

Nothing personal, but I agree with all my colleagues stating that this continuous prompting for new milestones is, to say the least, annoying and counterproductive. 

 

Therefore, please remove me from this test.

Thank you.

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