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anton_upwork1
Community Member

How would client profile details help you?

We’re exploring a potential new feature where we would ask clients for a bit more information about who they are, in addition to the usual job post details. We know talent in our Community have expressed a desire to see more information about clients so we wanted to reach out directly and see what information would be most helpful to you. 

 

Here are some questions we’d like to get your feedback on:

 

  1. If we created a client profile, would you find such a client profile useful?
  2. How would a client profile be useful to you?
  3. What would you like to see in it? 
  4. What do you wish job posts currently had to make you feel more confident in applying? 
  5. For new clients who have 0 reviews and spend, would a client profile be more likely to encourage you to work with them?

 

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts as we explore features to make your experience even better! Please feel free to include additional ideas you have about client profiles you would like to share. 

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anton_upwork1
Community Member

Thanks everybody for sharing your feedback and suggestions with us! The insights you have shared are very valuable to our teams as we work on new features. For now we'll be closing this thread from further replies and will process the information. We'll be sure to inform the Community about any updates that come out of it.

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92 REPLIES 92


Olga P wrote:


Aye. Let's just state Upwork is for veterans only and absolutely set absolute minimum of proven freelance carreer to be even able to register as a freelancer. Don't you think it is a bit too far? To protect clients who already are at great advantage, people like you will get rid of freelancers that are just starting out. Perhaps predatory behavior is something normal in business but I still believe by enforcing it, we harm ourselves in the long run.


There is no difference between running into predatory client behavior on your own, via email or however you acquire your clients, and via Upwork. However you handle those people is your business. Upwork is only here to facilitate YOUR business, you don't work for Upwork. So yes, they leave it in your hands to determine red flags, to learn to recognize the signs, etc. Obviously a pattern of this behavior is disturbing but again, the problem is not the source, the problem is the person handling the situation may not be capable of spotting those red flags or telling a client to back off and ending the contract, etc.

The argument of Upwork is if you don't like it, you are free not to use it. But expecting them to change their way of how they handle things is silly because they are already giving you a place to find clients you might otherwise not have access to. I wouldn't say Upwork is only for veterans but it can definitely be a hard lesson for those not accustomed to running their own business, vetting their own clients, etc.


Olga P wrote:

Will L wrote:

Olga,

 

Every freelancer here had their first day of work on Upwork.

 

But Upwork is not a good place for freelancers who are new to actually working in their area of expertise. Just taking certain subjects in school or university is very different than being paid to do real world projects where those subjects have some relevance. A new freelancers is at a huge disadvantage if (s)he has no idea what real world clients will expect of them or what they should expect from those clients.

 

If a freelancer can't design a set of questions they need answered before they will accept a project or the freelancer can't communicate well with clients before agreeing to accept a new contract from a client, then succeeding on Upwork will be an uphill battle, assuming that freelancer ever succeeds here.


Aye. Let's just state Upwork is for veterans only and absolutely set absolute minimum of proven freelance carreer to be even able to register as a freelancer. Don't you think it is a bit too far? To protect clients who already are at great advantage, people like you will get rid of freelancers that are just starting out. Perhaps predatory behavior is something normal in business but I still believe by enforcing it, we harm ourselves in the long run.


UW is for veterans only the same way riding a bicycle is only for people who already know how. It can also be for people who want to learn how if they are prepared to fall a few times and get some bumps and bruises, and willing to pay close attention to examples set and advice offered by seasoned professionals. Nobody is born knowing how to ride a bike. It comes more easily to some than others but we all take a tumble or two (or a dozen) when we first begin. This is the big leagues, though, no training wheels allowed. 


Will L wrote:

Olga,

 

Every freelancer here had their first day of work on Upwork.

 

But Upwork is not a good place for freelancers who are new to actually working in their area of expertise. Just taking certain subjects in school or university is very different than being paid to do real world projects where those subjects have some relevance. A new freelancers is at a huge disadvantage if (s)he has no idea what real world clients will expect of them or what they should expect from those clients.

 

If a freelancer can't design a set of questions they need answered before they will accept a project or the freelancer can't communicate well with clients before agreeing to accept a new contract from a client, then succeeding on Upwork will be an uphill battle, assuming that freelancer ever succeeds here.


Will, you totally nailed this one... and in such an eloquent way. Of all the places one might want to "try freelancing" to see if it is something for the person in the question, Upwork is probably the most hostile place to do it.

 

The only help you get is that of guys like you doing charity work and helping newbies on this forum. Huge kudos!

 

I've been hoping that Upwork would do 2 things that might help at least a little:

 

1. Debunk the impression that joining this site makes you a freelancer since it really doesn't. Not sure how this impression got created or whether or not it has been the result of an accident or deliberate effort.

 

2. Upgrade the Getting start guides and tutorials to another level. Instead of just explaining how Upwork works in terms of the user interface, there should be something about how to run a one-person business. If teaching freelancing is not Upwork's focus (as I could easily imagine it going horribly wrong, depending on who of the writers get assigned to the job), there should be a fair warning and requests for caution and perhaps pointers to those sources that actually help.

 

The present form of this site gives a too rosy picture which leads to huge masses of folks making the place crowded without having any hope of success, high churn in general, and then the platform coming up with automated banning algorithms and such countermeasures.

 

Fixing those 2 issues might save loads of cash too, maybe. Less work for the customer service, for sure. 😉

Hi Olga P

The number 4 points you mention are all valid but not for the general client profile. However, I think it would be a great idea if on your own profile, you use the project facility where you set out the costs of the various things you offer, relating to deadlines and the amounts of revisions included in various pricing. It's a great feature and one I haven't got round to yet , but I see it's power. I've learnt the hard way in my career if that stipulation about exactly what is expected, doesn't come from us ( from me)  then the job can spiral out of control.  I make sure that deadlines are discussed prior to entering contracts, and how many revisions are included for the price.  In the end, they are buying your service, so make your service clear. I hope that helps! Feel free to pm me 🙂

 

 

roberty1y
Community Member

I think the basic problem is that Upwork needs clients more than it needs freelancers,  so it makes it easier for the former. Unlike freelancers, they can just sign up and start posting jobs - no identity verification, no ban on deleting the profile and starting anew. This is why revealing a client's history to freelancers would be useless under the present system. Those with a bad record would just delete their profiles and start with a clean slate. 

 

It's quite possible to vet clients to the same degree as freelancers (although it would make the running of the site more expensive), but I don't think it would benefit freelancers in the long term. People who want work done just want to be able to sign up and get it done without any red tape. If they already have a profile, they may have forgotten the password and need to start a new one. Putting them through hoops to get on Upwork will turn a lot of good clients away.

 

If Upwork makes no serious and effective effort to prevent misbehaving clients from closing their accounts and then opening a new one for a fresh start then you're right - any information about a client's past actions in relation to their freelancers would have little value to freelancers in deciding whether to work with a particular client.

 

alexandernovikov
Community Member

Single most valuable piece of information about a potential client i would benefit most from knowing which i already don't know (such as country, for example), would be age. Granted, i don't expect it to happen.

lesleyfinch
Community Member

Client profile would indeed be useful.

 

There are many fundamental KYC data points that I think we are entitled to, and most of these can be generated automatically (e.g. from D&B or similar business database) and without compromising a client's anonymity if that's something that's important to UW for revenue protection reasons.

 

Speaking for myself, all my biggest problems with jobs are when the "client" turns out to be an intermediary of some sort. I've got better over the years at spotting the clues, but still occasionally find myself doing what I think is good work on a fixed contract when my "client" springs the old "let me forward that to the client and get their feedback" on me out of the blue, and I find myself dealing with notes from the ultimate client being lost in translation or worst of all starting from scratch when it transpires that my "client" has completely misinterpreted the brief from their client.  I don't mind working for agencies/intermediaries and the good ones are fine to work for, I just need to know for sure whether my immediate client is part of some chain and if so how deep that chain is so I can quote accordingly, or perhaps insist on an hourly rate if it's an intermediary I haven't worked for previously.

 

As an aside, it would be fair if, somehow, these wolves in sheep's clothing could, once exposed, have their feedback abilities limited in some way.

 

I would also like to second the proposal for a secret freelancer grapevine so we can warn one another about problem clients. A couple of months back I had had a run-in with -- guess who -- an agency who had completely misunderstood what their client wanted and expected me to start from scratch. I refused, they childishly responded that they never liked my work anyway and cancelled the job, and I refunded in full so they couldn't spraypaint abuse all over my public profile. Behind the scenes, however, they will have left negative private feedback because lo and behold my JSS suddenly dropped from a long-maintained 100% to 98% and I seem to have lost my "top-rated plus" status, if indeed that is even still a thing. I, of course, vented my own annoyance by leaving them negative private feedback in turn, however when I eventually managed to find their rating, I found that they still boast an unblemished but ill-deserved five stars.

 

I'm now stuck at 98% for the foreseeable future with no way of warning other freelancers about straying into that client's five-star web.

 

A "two-facedness" score would be interesting, showing the disparity between public and private feedback so you can avoid people likely to bomb your JSS behind your back.  I realise this is unlikely to be implemented, but it is fun to imagine it.

 

As regard brand new clients, I think it would be useful to get some sense of their "real-world" hiring experience, perhaps verified testimonials from freelancers who have worked for them in the past?

 

Hope my thoughts are useful!


Martin W wrote:

... I seem to have lost my "top-rated plus" status ...

...I'm now stuck at 98% for the foreseeable future ...


That contract can't possibly have had anything to do with your loss of the "Plus" status and if you really wanted to, you could use your top rated perk to remove the impact of that contract from your JSS calculation (I wouldn't bother, it'll fall out of your 6 month window 6 months after it happened and 98% is excellent).

 

Take another look at the requiremements for top rated plus. You clearly meet both the earning criteria (the big contract and the 12 month earnings). If you think you lost it because of a bug, contact Upwork support

Thanks for the reply Petra, I'll certainly follow up about Plus.

 

Regarding the JSS, I was told by UW that the perk will eliminate public feedback from inclusion in the calculation, but that nothing could stop private feedback from being included. Have I been misinformed or have I misunderstood?


Martin W wrote:

Regarding the JSS, I was told by UW that the perk will eliminate public feedback from inclusion in the calculation, but that nothing could stop private feedback from being included. Have I been misinformed or have I misunderstood?


Without seeing what you were told it's either one or the other because that is nonsense. The whole POINT of the perk is to remove the effect on the JSS. The removal of public feedbackfrom your profile is an optional extra and wouldn't apply here because there *is* no public feedback as the contract was fully refunded.

 

Refunding removes the public part of the feedback from your profile, but not the private feedback that affects the metrics, so maybe that's where the confusion comes in.

Yes, that is clearly where I have got things mixed up, thanks again Petra.

anton_upwork1
Community Member

Thanks everybody for sharing your feedback and suggestions with us! The insights you have shared are very valuable to our teams as we work on new features. For now we'll be closing this thread from further replies and will process the information. We'll be sure to inform the Community about any updates that come out of it.

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