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heatherfugate
Community Member

How would you handle this stiuation?

I started working with a client last night who is new to Upwork and I turned in my design today and did some revisions she requested this morning. She is happy with the work however she also hired another freelancer to come up with a design. She is only going to pay whoever design she likes best - I am confident in my work however I didn't think this is how this platform works. How would your approach this situation? 

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prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "She is only going to pay whoever design she likes best"

 

Um... No.

That is not an option.

 

https://www.upwork.com/legal#permittedsite

 

4.1 EXAMPLES OF PROHIBITED USES OF THE SITE
The following are examples of uses that are prohibited on the Site or when using the Site Services:

Requesting or demanding free services, including requesting Freelancers to submit work as part of the proposal process for very little or no money or posting contests in which Freelancers submit work with no or very little pay, and only the winning submission is paid the full amount;

 

Screen Shot 2020-02-27 at 10.52.59 AM.png

 

 

re: "How would you handle this situation?"

Politely. But firmly.

 

"Jessica: Thank you for your note about what you plan to do. I totally understand that you are a new Upwork user, and I'm really sorry if there was some confusion about how things work here. I would like to help you in any way that I can, but unfortunately if you hire two designers and pay only one of them, you would be at risk of having none of the funds returned to you and also having your Upwork account terminated. I wouldn't want anything like that to happen to you.

 

If you have questions about this, or about how to use Upwork the way YOU wan to use it, you can ask for advice here: https://community.upwork.com/t5/forums/editpage/board-id/freelancers/message-id/431062"

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15 REPLIES 15
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "She is only going to pay whoever design she likes best"

 

Um... No.

That is not an option.

 

https://www.upwork.com/legal#permittedsite

 

4.1 EXAMPLES OF PROHIBITED USES OF THE SITE
The following are examples of uses that are prohibited on the Site or when using the Site Services:

Requesting or demanding free services, including requesting Freelancers to submit work as part of the proposal process for very little or no money or posting contests in which Freelancers submit work with no or very little pay, and only the winning submission is paid the full amount;

 

Screen Shot 2020-02-27 at 10.52.59 AM.png

 

 

re: "How would you handle this situation?"

Politely. But firmly.

 

"Jessica: Thank you for your note about what you plan to do. I totally understand that you are a new Upwork user, and I'm really sorry if there was some confusion about how things work here. I would like to help you in any way that I can, but unfortunately if you hire two designers and pay only one of them, you would be at risk of having none of the funds returned to you and also having your Upwork account terminated. I wouldn't want anything like that to happen to you.

 

If you have questions about this, or about how to use Upwork the way YOU wan to use it, you can ask for advice here: https://community.upwork.com/t5/forums/editpage/board-id/freelancers/message-id/431062"

Thank you, I was trying to think of the words of how to tell her in a polite way that this is not how the platform works instead of just being like no... I just don't understand some peoples logic on how they think this sort of behavior is okay. I can't go to starbucks and then go to dutch bros to buy a drink and then tell them that I will only purchase the best drink and want my other drink refunded because it wasn't as good.

robin_hyman
Community Member

I hope you have an actual contract with the client.  Otherwise you just did the work for free.  If you have a contract and did the work, you should be paid for that work.  Since you're not that new to the platform and the client is, please educate her.  

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Her intention of only paying one of two freelancers is not an option under Upwork's rules.

 

Everyone who works for her gets paid.

 

If this is an hourly project and you properly using Upwork's TimeTracker app, the client will be held responsible for paying you for the work time you book.

 

If this is a fixed price project, only begin work after the client has fully funded the first milestone. Then be sure to use the green "Submit" button when you send her the work you have done to fulfill that milestone. That work may not be 100% complete. If it isn't, tell her what you need to make it 100% complete. (If you send her your work when it is,say, 97% complete without using the "Submit" button, she can close the project and do the remaining 3% herself. If you send her your nearly-completed or completed work by any other means, such as email, she can then close the project and not be responsible to pay you under Upwork's rules. No escrow = no pay.)

 

Do the same for each subsequent milestone - get milestone fully funded, do work required, submit work. Each time you properly submit work for a funded milestone, a 14-day clock begins during which the client can ask for revisions to the work submitted. She can release payment before the 14-day period is over, or Upwork will automatically release payment after that period if no revisions to the work are needed.

 

Don't submit the work again using the "Submit" button because that re-starts the 14-day window.

 

Don't start work on any milestone until the client has released escrow to you for all previous milestones.

 

Good luck!

 

re: "Her intention of only paying one of two freelancers is not an option under Upwork's rules."

 

Sort of a universal rule, really.

VERY RARELY can you hire people and then simply NOT pay them.

In some industries some types of work are commonly done on spec, Preston.

 

Architectural firms do it for certain projects, writers in Hollywood do it, etc. They do the work and only get paid for it if their work is chosen as the "winner" among the competing works by multiple providers.

 

Surely you know that?

 

The original poster might even work that way in the real world.

 

Will:

That is a good point, and those are good examples of exceptions to the rule.

 

I didn't say "never." I said "very rarely."

 

Ask a Hollywood actor if he gets paid even if his scenes were COMPLETELY CUT from the final edit of a film.


Preston H wrote:

re: "Her intention of only paying one of two freelancers is not an option under Upwork's rules."

 

Sort of a universal rule, really.

VERY RARELY can you hire people and then simply NOT pay them.


Actually, there's a "design contest"-type website (which I won't name), where clients can do exactly that - ask a bunch of designers to create a logo and then only pay for the "winning" design - so that's probably where the OP's client got the idea from. 

 

I came to the conclusion years ago that it's simply not worth bidding on logo design projects these days - very rarely will you actually get paid a fair price for your time. 

 

To the OP - since you've already done the work, the only thing that you can do is politely tell the client that you completely understand if they want options from other designers and they are free to use whichever result best meets their needs, but they are under contract to pay you regardless. And don't do any more revisions until they agree with this.

 

Christine:

I know exactly what website/freelance work platform you are referring to.

 

If I stated what I think about that platform and/or their "contests", I'm sure that my post would be censored or deleted.


Preston H wrote:

Christine:

I know exactly what website/freelance work platform you are referring to.

 

If I stated what I think about that platform and/or their "contests", I'm sure that my post would be censored or deleted.


You and me both!

Christine, I never knew that there were such sites. So I guess it isn't that crazy it just took me by suprised because i'm fairly new to freelancing and have never done free work or intend too.  

 

Thank you for the advice!!

Here's something I think about:

 

A designer - like Heather - has her own computer equipment, she has her own software. She probably has some expensive software which she either purchased outright or licenses on a monthly or yearly basis. She has spent a lot of time learning design, and probably other things as well: art, marketing, etc. She has spent time learning how to use software, some of which is complex.

 

Compare that to my nephew who washes dishes at a cheap restaurant: Literally no skill or education or equipment of his own involved. He expects to get paid for his work, or he isn't going to do the work at all.

 

It is not surprising to me if someone like Heather expects to get paid for her work.

tlbp
Community Member


Heather F wrote:

I started working with a client last night who is new to Upwork and I turned in my design today and did some revisions she requested this morning. She is happy with the work however she also hired another freelancer to come up with a design. She is only going to pay whoever design she likes best - I am confident in my work however I didn't think this is how this platform works. How would your approach this situation? 


You should have either received and accepted an offer for a fixed price or hourly contract before doing any work. If you did not accept a contract offer, then you may not be paid. Of course, if you aren't paid, you own the work. Never do work for a client unless you have a contract. Review the New to Upwork getting started posts and the How to Get Paid sections in the official help pages to make sure you understand how to protect yourself from clients who don't understand (or plan to ignore) the rules. 

lysis10
Community Member

I bet you could get the money out of her if she set up escrow even if you agreed. I'm guessing this isn't a lot of money, so just tell the mediator you want arbitration and you'll force the money out of her because I'm guessing this is a low-end job.

That is a good tip to know, thanks Jennifer. Hopefully it will not go that far. I know enough not to make the mistakes of doing the work without a contract, not working funded jobs, etc. That is all basic sense to me. You are spot on, not a great paying job but I could do the job where I wouldn't be spending a lot of time so it evened out. But this is a lesson learned to stay away from the lower end jobs even if It won't take me long to do it. 

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