I guess Upwork is managed by biased people.

[#1]

I created my upwork account in 2015. Since then, I never got any job on this platform. I created project last month, never approved. Not event told the reasons why not approved! I modified it but in vain. Could not understand this (upwork) platform. I am also using **Edited for Community Guidelines** for last 10 months, get jobs easily. But on upwork ...!!!

[#2]

the project approving is a bit strict. There should be an explanation why it got reflected though.

[#3]

Hi, Viacheslav K. Thanks for your comment. My point is, Just let me (Us, i.e. any freelancer) know the reason(s) for NOT approval. So, I can fix that or find other way to do things. But there is no way to contact any of the Upwork official/organizer team to discuss the problem and find any solution. 

[#4]

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Shahid H wrote:

Hi, Viacheslav K. Thanks for your comment. My point is, Just let me (Us, i.e. any freelancer) know the reason(s) for NOT approval. So, I can fix that or find other way to do things. But there is no way to contact any of the Upwork official/organizer team to discuss the problem and find any solution. 

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They DO let you know why projects aren't approved. Mine and others have been rejected, they told us why (usually it's the cover photo), and we revised it, resubmitted, and were approved. Look at your notification of the rejection, and I bet it tells you plainly what you need to fix. 

[#5]

Exactly! They do tell us the reason and like you right said it is usually the cover photo with too much text! 

Mine was rejected, they informed me what is wrong I fixed it and it is now approved! 

[#6]

Hi Amanda L.

Actually this is the problem I want to discuss. Upwork rejected my Project two times but never mentioned the reason(s). See the attached screenshot. I could not find any job only using my Profile. I want to use Project to improve my presence on Upwork but fail. It created embarrassment and I wrote this post with the **Edited for Community Guidelines** my point somewhere in the upwork team. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

I have a sound experience of translation at international projects, working with lots of foreigners from different countries like USA, UK, Germany, Australia, China, Nepal and Serilanka etc. Translated English to Urdu and Urdu to English, Press releases, Parts of Project documents, Reports, Survey forms, slogans and many other formal and informal conversations. These things are all projects' properties and I am not to use these in my Portfolio and/or for any other purpose. I also declare to my clients (working on other platforms) the privacy of their files/text etc.

How to showcase my skills and sell to client at Upwork? Feel helpless and disapointed, and use this fourm.

Thanks.

[#7 · Accepted solution]

Shahid, they do provide a reason and detailed explanation of what caused the rejection. In my case, they also offered a TIP to source a proper project cover image. 

You are looking at the wrong place. You are looking in notification area, you need to check email as well

[#8]

Hi Ashraf K.

Yes, This is what I need. You are really a Pro. I wish someone at Upwork (at Notifictaion area) already mentioned this. There would be no need for this whole debate at all.

Thank you very much.

[#9]

And you marked your own reply as a solution? 

[#10]

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Ashraf K wrote:

And you marked your own reply as a solution? 

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Yeah exactly. 

[#11]

Oh, I was so excited. Thanks.

[#12]

Hi All, 

I went ahead and marked Ashraf's detailed response with a screenshot as a solution instead. Shahid, I also encourage to check out the email you got when your project got rejected. As Ashraf, Amanda and others pointed out on this thread, that email would contain more information about why the project was rejected along with some helpful tips. 

[#13]

Hi All fellows,
Valeria K Community Manager.

I like to thank you all for your precious time and professional comments, advices and guidelines. This discussion is really very helpful for me and (hopefully) for other Viewers of this post, too. For those, Please accept my apologies, who feel offended and/or hurt by any of my comments/posts or anything else.

Thank you and best regards.

[#14]

Do you not see the part where it says "review the feedback and resubmit"? You have to click on things and see the feedback. 

[#15]

Hi Amanda L.

I clicked the link but it opened the Project page. There is no indiction to see the email.

Thanks.

[#16]

What does any of that have to do with "biased"? The people who manage Upwork don't decide whether you get hired or not. Clients do.

How many proposals do you send a week, on average?

You may want to significantly improve your profile. Proofread and rewrite your overview. If you offer translations into English, your English must be impeccable. In general, professional translators do not translate into their non-native language.

Add a portfolio.

Why does your overview state one hourly rate and your profile rate another, which is a third of it?

[#17]

Hi Petra R.

Thanks for your reply. I feel "biased" because there is no reason to DIS-Approve my project. I have almost same profile on other platform and have very positive response. But on Upwork there is no one to tell the reason/fault in the Project i created (and deleted after continuously rejected for UNknown reason). May be the people who review, have some problem with ME, my country or anything else, that is what I called "BIASED".

I sent more then 10 proposals in last two weeks (as I have many conect points).

I mentioned the translation from English to Urdu and vice versa, editing/proofreading. Whats wrong with this? Please send me some sample and test my skills that I have mentioned.

If I get any Job on upwork, it would be my best portfolio. But there is no job for me 😞

There is only one hourly rate I've mentioned, in profile i specify 'technical text or product catalog' rate separatly.

Hope this will clear my position/point of view.

Thanks.

[#18]

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Shahid H wrote:

Thanks for your reply. I feel "biased" because there is no reason to DIS-Approve my project.

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There is. You just don't know what it is. That is an oversight, it isn't "bias".

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Shahid H wrote:
 I have almost same profile on other platform and have very positive response.

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The standards here are way higher.

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Shahid H wrote:

I mentioned the translation from English to Urdu and vice versa - Whats wrong with this?

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That professional translators don't translate into their non-native language. Clients know this. So your profile has to be in impeccable English.

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Shahid H wrote:

I sent more then 10 proposals in last two weeks (as I have many conect points).

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That's nothing. And you want to improve your profile and add some portfolio pieces that showcase your most impressive work before applying some more.

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Shahid H wrote:

If I get any Job on upwork, it would be my best portfolio. But there is no job for me 😞

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Why would it have to be from a job in Upwork? Your portfolio should be some examples of your best work that showcase your expertise.

Why would clients hire you when your profile isn't strong and there are no portfolio pieces that would confirm that you can do the work?

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Shahid H wrote:

May be the people who review, have some problem with ME, my country or anything else, that is what I called "BIASED".

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This is a global platform with a huge number of freelancers from the same country you come from. That's not it. They don't look at you or your country, they only look at your project.

[#19]

Hi Petra R.

Thanks for detailed reply.
You said 'That is an oversight, it isn't "bias".' and in next line you said 'The standards here are way higher.' Are the standards SO higher here that there is 'oversight' again and again but not 'bias' !!!.  Anyway, I remove the word 'bias' as it irritates you too much and i don't want to hurt you or anyone'e feelings. That's just i experienced/felt, Please ignore it.

I am native Urdu speaker and English is official language of Pakistan. We have to learn it from day one in the school. How many professional translators have two native languages? What are the standards or way to judge a translator's abilities without testing his/her work. That's what I offered. Please test my skills.

Well, there was no way to communicate to upwork. So I wrote here, conveyed my experience and feelings. Don't want any useless debate. If upwork see theseloopholes (e.g. oversight) seriously  and solve the problems professionally, I and many others will be happy with upwork.

Thanks.

[#20]

"In general, professional translators do not translate into their non-native language."

Actually, there's some debate going on regarding the validity of the mother-tongue principle:

https://www.ata-chronicle.online/featured/the-mother-tongue-principle-hit-or-myth/

In my opinion, as long as you are not translating official documents and you do not offer a sworn translation, you can offer translation of any language pair you feel competent in. Sworn translation is a bit of a different matter - at least in my country, it requires passing official exams and getting certified. But it does not exclude anyone from translating into a non-native (now called 1st Language) language as long as he/she can prove proficiency in such language and obtains state certification. I don't think there are even enough English native speakers alive worldwide (and proficient in at least one foreign language), to fulfill the global needs for translation into English.  Let's keep in mind that learning foreign languages is not the most popular pastime among English native speakers 😉 

Apologies for a bit of an OT 

[#21]

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Piotr O wrote:

Actually, there's some debate going on regarding the validity of the mother-tongue principle:

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So just because "someone" in a country where the standard of English is exceptionally high, disagrees with something that most professional translators, including myself, agree with, you (who don't seem to be a translator) question the whole concept?

Especially when the opinion is based on an experiment using a grand total of 4 samples of 300 words? SERIOUSLY? And even that was quite clearly based on faulty logic.

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Piotr O wrote:

In my opinion, as long as you are not translating official documents and you do not offer a sworn translation, you can offer translation of any language pair you feel competent in.

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And to hell with the resulting quality?

I spend a lot of my time (and my clients pay a lot of money) on fixing translations done by people who had the same "let's have a go at this translation lark, I speak XYZ-well enough" attitude.

Translation is more than just throwing a text from one language into another any old way and someone who doesn't just speak the language at a very high level, but also understand the cultural idiosyncrasies of the target language, will have a hard time producing anything that reads fluently and naturally to a native speaker of that language.

Whilst it is true that being a native speaker doesn't guarantee a good translation (I also fix plenty of word-salad created by native speakers), when someone makes mistakes in their written use of the target language, they are ill-equipped to translate into it.

[#22]

One of the pretty famous Polish writers Jerzy Kosinski wrote in English exclusively. In one of the interviews, he recalled how frequently the editors would point out mistakes or other issues in his early writing due to the fact that English was not his mother tongue. So, he once decided to make a little test - he took a random page from Steinback's one of the less-known novels and submitted it for editing. He got it back with a number of corrections and the comment "An American would never have written this like that".   "From this very moment" - he said -"I stopped worrying and started writing more freely". 

Now, back to translations for a moment: Petra, if you agree that being a native speaker does not guarantee the highest quality of the translation (proved also in the little experiment I linked), then what is the benefit of the mother tongue principle? Let alone, that even UN is not strict about it and allows the use of translation done by people who are just highly proficient in the language which does not have to be their 1st language. 

In the real world, millions of people need quick, cheap, non-official translations done into English - for their websites, for their sales materials, for the blog they write, or a paper they need to submit. They need proofreading and editing, as well. But the real challenge starts when you need an official, certified, and sworn translation in a highly technical matter. Don't ask me how many times I had to correct those "professional translations" (darn expensive!) due to various inaccuracies.  So, it is far from being a "black and white" area. 

And yes, I do non-official translations from time to time - Polish into English and vice versa. Are they perfect? No. Are they good enough for what they are needed for? Sure they are 🙂

[#23]

Piotr, we can agree to "somewhat" disagree in order not derail the thread 🙂

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Piotr O wrote:

One of the pretty famous Polish writers Jerzy Kosinski wrote in English exclusively.

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But he lived in the USA most of his life...

[#24]

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Petra R wrote:

Piotr, we can agree to "somewhat" disagree in order not derail the thread 🙂

Of course - disagreeing in a nice way is a virtue somewhat scarce nowadays

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Piotr O wrote:

One of the pretty famous Polish writers Jerzy Kosinski wrote in English exclusively.

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But he lived in the USA most of his life...

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That's correct, although you slightly missed the point here. This anecdote shows that people would correct you assuming you have to make mistakes and errors just because a certain language is not your mother tongue. The editor corrected Steinback thinking it was written by a non-native - here is the pure nonsense in this story 🙂 

OK, you're right, we've drifted too far from the OPs problem. Nevertheless, the whole conversation (and the translations as a business) is quite interesting - maybe we'll continue in the Coffee Break section...This time without the coconuts 😉

[#25]

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Piotr O wrote:

The editor corrected Steinback thinking it was written by a non-native - here is the pure nonsense in this story 🙂 

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I understood the point of your story perfectly, **Edited for Community Guidelines**. The difference is that Kosinski's (which wasn't actually his name) English was good enough to write in English.

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Piotr O wrote: This anecdote shows that people would correct you assuming you have to make mistakes and errors just because a certain language is not your mother tongue.

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I wasn't assuming though. I can see them.