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mintumondal65
Community Member

I need immediate HELP!!!

Hi upwork community,

 

I am here once again. I need immediately help. One of client is recently end the contract without any information and the payment is in Escrow. I guided her step step on how to fix this issues. After getting all the information from me, she end the contract and requested for return.

 

Could anyone please guide me what should I do?

 

I need immediate HELP

27 REPLIES 27
mintumondal65
Community Member

Is anyone available to answer this question?

Ok, a couple of questions....

 

The client hired you to do a job, and put the money for the contract in escrow...

 

  1. Did you do the work they hired you to do?
  2. Did the client request the refund before you did the work they hired you to do?

Hi Jonathan,

 

Here is the following questions to answers.

 

1. I guided her the solution step by step after hired.

 

2. After gave her a solution through Upwork chat box she ended the contract certainly.

 

And one more thing, I told her that the bid is low.

 

After ended the contract, I asked her why did you end the contract and what was reason. But she didn't response to me.

 

Mintu,

what im struggling to understand is, you keep saying 'i guided her to the solution step by step', but is that the job you were hired to do, or were you hired to fix the problem yourself?

 

For example (and sticking to your field of work)...

If i have no idea how to place google ads, i hire someone to place some ads for me,

if that person then tells me HOW to place the adds and i then close the contract and do it myself, that person has not completed the work because their job was to place the ads for me. It would be a bit of a shady trick to do, but doesnt change the fact the work was not complete.

This was the actual job description.

 

"We need a Google Analytics expert to debug our current Google Analytics setup to ensure it's installed correctly for Google. The following skills are required for this job:

- Proficient in Google Analytics
- HTML and JavaScript familiarity'

 

The job is considered to be small and should take under 1 month to complete. We're looking for an expert level freelancer to ensure that the job is done correctly."

 

There was nothing written to fix anything or something, only written over here to ensure Google analytics tags are properly installed on the website or not.

 

And I told her and guided how you can do it yourself.

 

When she was asking me to fix the issues then I told her the bid was to low.

 

 

Well, if I had written that post you have put, I would be expecting someone to login to my site/analytics and debug everything for google. Not tell me how to do it myself - I hired you because i want it done for me, not because i want a lesson in how to do it myself.

 

It sounds to me like very poor communication of expectations from both sides to some extent.

 

It doesnt sound to me like you have done the job you were hired to do (debugging) but, having said that I don't know exactly what is involved in that type of work. 

 

You can of course refuse the refund if you think you have done the work you were hired to do - It will likely then go to mediation unless the client agrees. 

 

When she was asking me to fix the issues then I told her the bid was to low.

So why did you bid that low? why did you accept the contract?

 

You told the client the bid was to low, the bid you agred upon! of course they have closed the contract, you have told them you dont want to do the work for the price you agreed. I would also have closed the contract.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I accepted this offer because as per the job description, I thought it was only to review the GA code properly installed or not on website and would inform her reason, why was she facing the issues and that's why I accepted.

 

If she writes to fix that issues in job description then I wouldn't have to bid. Moreover, I didn't say anything like I can't do it with that budget. When she said to me to fix that issues and then I said to her the bid is low.

 

Have I done anything wrong?

I accepted this offer because as per the job description, I thought it was only to review the GA code properly installed or not on website and would inform her reason, why was she facing the issues and that's why I accepted.

Mintu M wrote:

"We need a Google Analytics expert to debug our current Google Analytics setup to ensure it's installed correctly for Google. 


It seems very clear that it is asking for you to debug something - not just check it!

 

That sentence tells me three things - first, who they need, then what they need you to do, then why they need you to do it.

 

There is nothing in the advert you posted to even remotely suggest it is just to review it.

 

As others have said, you need to take this as a learning experience and move on. 

 


Mintu M wrote:

 

I didn't say anything like I can't do it with that budget. When she said to me to fix that issues and then I said to her the bid is low.


If you told her the bid was low when she asked about fixing it, then I think its quite reasonable that she would think you are saying you cant fix it for that price. As such it would be quite reasonable to expect her to close the contract if she is not comfortable paying more.


Mintu M wrote:

 

Have I done anything wrong?


You have failed to communicate project deliverables and expectations effectively. As freelancers it is our job to manage client expectations. I think that applies more-so on technical projects where the client may not know exactly what is required to complete the task (and hence why they are hiring a professional).

 

I would suggest just trying to be more aware in future, you have not done the work required, so have only lost the time you spent interacting with the client.

 

 Its always a good idea to clearly write out what is expected at the beginning of a contract.

When you accept a clients offer you are required to write some text in the message box - I always put something along the lines of...

"hi, thank you for hiring me for this project, im really looking forward to getting started. the deliverables for this project will be..."

I then list what I will be doing for this project/milestone including revision expectations ect.

"It seems very clear that it is asking for you to debug something - not just check it!"

 

After debugging the GA code then I found the issues. 

 

"If you told her the bid was low when she asked about fixing it, then I think its quite reasonable that she would think you are saying you cant fix it for that price. As such it would be quite reasonable to expect her to close the contract if she is not comfortable paying more."

 

She should have informed me that I couldn't pay you more.

 

"Its always a good idea to clearly write out what is expected at the beginning of a contract."

 

I never thought about it. Thank you for this idea.


Mintu M wrote:

 

After debugging the GA code then I found the issues. 

 


Up until this point you have been saying that you just told the client what to do to fix it, you have not mentioned anything about doing the debugging thats why there is so much confusion.

 

So, if you have provided the client with the debugged code then you should of course be paid. The client is either dishonest or unhappy about something. 

 


Mintu M wrote:

 

She should have informed me that I couldn't pay you more.

 


It would be the polite thing to do, yes. But the client is free to close the contract whenever they wish (as are you) that does not require telling the other party.

Again this comes down to managing expectations - Its your job to make sure the client knows what will or wont be included. If the client was expecting you to just get things working (as the job post suggests) then you saying it wasnt enough after the client already agreed to a price that she thought was going to include what still needs doing then its no suprise it was just closed!

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Please take a look at the attached screenshot and then she ended the contract.

 

I'm unsure why you are showing me this? (it will likely be removed by a mod soon as they dont like you sharing client names or messages).

 

The contents of that interaction doesn't change anything about what has been said.

 

In my experience clients that only want to pay $13 for a job are usually more of a headache than a client paying 100X the amount!

 

its $13, either forget about it and move on or challenge the refund and get paid.

The client has already closed the contract so they have likely already left bad feedback if they are not happy (though i dont think the public feedback will show if no money has been paid on the contract)

mintumondal65
Community Member

Anyone please guide me what should I do now?

melaniekhenson
Community Member

I don't understand, what was there to fix? You must have gotten paid since she is asking for a refund...is that what you meant?

 

There is no reason I can see for you to refund her. Why is she asking for a refund?

She's asking for a refund of funds in escrow instead of releasing them to the freelancer.

There's a button to reject the request or dispute, but I don't know where it is or what the exact wording is.

I guided her a solution step by step and after hearing all the information she ended the contract and was asking for a refund from the escrow.

 

So my question is that shall I approve the refund to her or not?

The first thing to do is message the client and discuss why she's not happy and wants a refund. It's always best to try and fix these issues yourself. If you did the work and gave her everything that she asked for, you don't have to give her a refund - the next step would be to request dispute mediation. 

 

If you're mainly worried about your JSS, unfortunately, any damage has already been done. The client would have left feedback for you when she closed the contract, and it'll be visible in 14 days, or when you leave feedback for her. You can remove public feedback by giving a full refund, but it could still impact your JSS. A dispute doesn't impact your JSS at all.

Thank you for your response. I messaged her and asked, 'why did you end the contract and was there any reason' but she didn't response.

Yes, I am worried about JSS Score. 

 

You may see the my chat details if you have a permission.

It sounds like you gave the client what she wanted without having a contract. If that's accurate, there is nothing anyone can do. You need to go to the Academy and learn about contract and how to function on Upwork. If you don't, you will continue to lose money.

No. Don't approve the refund. This why it's so important to be clear exactly what you are providing, and what you would expect to be paid for.

 

If you were showing her somethnig, even something very simple, you are still working. Work requires pay. It is sad that this is what needs to happen, but these scammers are driving it.

What I was trying to say, I guided her step by step and gave her a solution after hearing this information, she end the contract without noticing me and the payment was in Escrow and wanted a refund from the escrow. 

 

So my question was that would I give refund to her and what if I do it, will my JSS Score drop? 

Mintu,

 

Because the client closed the contract before you could formally submit your work to her, there isn't anything you or Upwork can do to compel this client to release escrowed funds to you. Based on other posts on this message board, this is not an uncommon ploy by dishonest clients.

 

Never work on any project milestone unless it has been fully funded by the client. Always submit your work via the "Submit" button when you provide the work to a client. If you don't do this, as you now see in this case, the client can close the contract and the money in escrow will be returned to the client unless they authorize it be paid to you. This is what an honest client does; there are apparently many such dishonest clients on Upwork.

 

As Erin says, you should now leave accurate feedback for this client as your part of closing the contract. If you don't explain in your feedback this client's dishonesty then her future prospective freelancers will likely suffer the same result you have seen. Upwork will not provide any indication of how this client treats freelancers.

He has not done the work, that is why the client is asking for a refund. He told the client the bid was to low and she closed the contract. I dont think the client is being dishonest in this particular case!

Well, then, we need to make sure he understands not to accept a contract if all of its provisions (including the amount of the contract) are not satisfactory to him. Accepting a contract. letting the client fund a milestone and then expecting to negotiate the contracts terms is bass-ackwards, no?

wlyonsatl
Community Member

If you did the work, expect/demand to be paid. Just because the client wants a refund doesn't mean you should give her one.

 

Why does she say she wants a refund?

 

If you finish the work required on any escrowed/funded milestone, always submit the work required for the milestone. You have to do this via the "Submit" button on the project page. Have you submitted your work this way?

No, I haven't submitted the work but I just guided her step by step how to do it but after hearing all the information she end the contract without any notice and asking for a payment from the escrow. 

 

So my question is that will I give a refund to her? or choose the payment disputes? What if I choose payment disputes, will my JSS effect?

erinvega2016
Community Member

You won't get a chance to give a refund because you haven't submitted the work. You merely told the client what to do and they took it and ran. Without officially submitting the work you will not be paid. 

In my opinion you need to cut your losses on this one and chalk it up to a lesson learned. Don't submit the work, close the contract on your end to release the escrow amount back to client. Leaving honest feedback about the client if you are able to. It may or may not affect your JSS, but like I said this is a lesson you will never let happen again.  

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