🐈
» Forums » Freelancers » Re: I was stolen by upwork
Page options
marcelamercadom
Community Member

I was stolen by upwork

Hello,
I made a hard job and upwork just took my money away, they do not give me any valid reason and insist on hiding information for me. I think they hide all because the ay have no valid reason to take my money away.
I want to know if I can take legal actions against upwork. I loosed 600USD and more than 24 hours with no sleeping.
They do not give me any explanation. And maybe is nothing for you, but 600 USD makes difference for me, and I earned them.
Please, help, I want upwork to pay for this
43 REPLIES 43
petra_r
Community Member


Marcela M wrote:
Hello,
I made a hard job and upwork just took my money away, they do not give me any valid reason and insist on hiding information for me.

What happened?

Fixed rate contract or hourly contract?

 

Usually a funds reversal is because either the client never paid for your work (and your hours were not logged according to the terms of the protection)  or there was a chargeback. The party you have an issue with is almost invariably the client.

 

 

 

Hello, 
Thanks for you reply,
Tis was hourly job. The client tells me he did nothing wrong, but it appears as upwork refunded him. I am very confused, and upwork people is more abil evading questions than the politicians in latinoamerica :'(.
I cannot pass this by, I am destroid and my trust in upwork completely fell. I am sad this is the only way I have to get jobs as my talent is null for people in Colombia.
I hope the one whi took this money really enjoy with it.
Does anybody know how I can begin a legal action against upwork?

g_vasilevski
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member

Hi Marcela,

 

I`m sorry to hear about the bad experience you had.

I checked your tickets and I can see that our team has advised you on your ticket with number 25531861. I can also see that you have followed up with additional questions on your ticket and our team member will assist you further as soon as possible.

 

Please keep in mind that in order to be eligible for our Hourly Payment protection you will need to fulfill all criteria listed in this Help Article

I would also recommend to check out the Safety First section in this Thread. If you have any additional questions feel free to post them on your ticket and our team will assist you further. Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork

I do not trust upwork anymore. You can just take the money I get with real effort away with no explanation. 
How can a begin a legal way against you?


Marcela M wrote:

 You can just take the money I get with real effort away with no explanation.


It looks like the client failed to pay Upwork for your hours, and your hours were not logged in accordance to the hourly protection. If you had logged your hours properly, Upwork would have paid you out of their own pocket.

 

Did you log your hours with the tracker? Did you have high activity levels and meaningful work memos?

 


OK, it was like this. 
The client needed a program made using assembly language (which is very specific and complicated). He needed to be sure the task was working on a hard deadline. This was a job that you suceed or not. That is why not until I succeed he officially contract me in upwork. We defined I was going to receive 600USD, so they paid that hour at 740USD, so after upwork taking 140, I will have my 600. I reported the hour, as I have done many times. I cannot understand why they just pick my hour to be as "fraudulent". According to the client, they just did the pay, and that is why I doubt so much on upwork. It looks like they saw a high rated hour and just say is not valid, and did not even check I was chating with this client for around 24 hours with no stopping. I was not laughing with him, I WAS WORKING ALL NIGHT!!!!!. I have the conversation to probe it.
Also, when I ask upwork people to tell me if my client was indeed a fraud, they reply "we cannot give details to protect privacy". How can they prefer protect the privacy of someone that is supposed to be a fraud?. Anyway, I am nos asking for details, I am just want them to assure me that it was a fraudulent transaction from the clients side, or just a whim of upwork to do not let me get what I earned!

Or maybe they are alert for the "papaya" and wait somebody makes a mistake reporting the hours, so they can take the money with the excuse is not under the protection rules?. That is bad


Marcela M wrote:

Or maybe they are alert for the "papaya" and wait somebody makes a mistake reporting the hours, so they can take the money with the excuse is not under the protection rules?. That is bad


They will never "take" the money. It is either sent to you or returned to the client or was never there in the first place.

 

To be honest it is no wonder that alarmbells went off, you trying to log one hour at $ 720 per hour looks dodgy as hell, and NOT how you should try and get paid $ 600... The way to get paid $ 600 is for the client to set up a fixed rate contract for $ 720 and fund it, **OR** for you to track your time at your proper rate while doing the work.

 

Manual time is never protected, so if the client's payment method failed or there was something dodgy about the transaction, you lose out. You can only be protected if funds are in Escrow, or you track your time.

 

It is also dodgy to do $ 720 worth of work without a contract.

Ok, thanks for your reply.
1) So why they cannot tell me which is this case
What is precisely what I want to know: "either sent to you or returned to the client or was never there in the first place". But they still evading this simple question. WHY???

2. What are you suggesting with "dodgy"? Are you suggesting I am kind of delincuent trying to take benefit from an online platform? I invite you to look at my profile before you say I am beind "dodgy". I have worked with Upwork for so long, with excellent reputation and no problems until now. So please, do not try to offend me, because I already am.
3) I did not add manually work, i recorded using the app as I have done many times.

Kind regards


Marcela M wrote:


1) So why they cannot tell me which is this case?

2. What are you suggesting with "dodgy"? Are you suggesting I am kind of delincuent trying to take benefit from an online platform?
3) I did not add manually work, i recorded using the app as I have done many times.


1.  No idea

2. No, I am not suggesting that you are dodgy, but that what you tried to do must have looked super suspicious to Upwork. Someone with a history of $ 20 to $ 30 an hour contracts being hired at $ 720 an hour will instantly have sent  out automated fraud-alerts.  At such an hourly rate you could (theoretically) create thousands of Dollars of earnings in a matter of a few hours. That could open up the danger of a client using a stolen credit card or money laundering and all sorts of horrible things. People don't have a rate increase of 2000% overnight.... Surely you must see that this looked odd? Is the client a new client? Whose idea was this? (With the hourly contract at $ 720)

 

3. You have never before successfully logged time at an hourly rate of $ 720.....

 

When did you log that hour?

 

Take a deep breath and ask the client to clarify that the money has been returned, and to please pay as a bonus payment.

I am honest!!! Can't colombian people be also honest and hardworking? Why does people do not even check if I am really laundrying money??? So just one day for another I decide changing multiphysics simulation for being a delincuent?? That have never been on my plans, even if worlwide people still thinking we are all delincuents in Latin America. I have helped people worldwide with scientific problems, I am hard worker and honest person, and I an not new in upwork, and I have conversations and files proving that I earned that money. But no, upwork just thought " the latin girls is trying to laundry money".. they did not even see the conversations with the clients, just retuned the money to them. If I were them, I would be happy I had a stupid woman doing the work for me, and even if I paid they gave my money back...round business!
Of course they must be happy and busy with their lives, they got their job done for free


Marcela M wrote:

I am honest!!! Can't colombian people be also honest and hardworking? Why does people do not even check if I am really laundrying money??? So just one day for another I decide changing multiphysics simulation for being a delincuent??


NOOOO. Nobody said anything of the sort. If Upwork thought you're doing anything bad, your account would have been suspended...

But this was clearly not a "normal" contract. Or a normal transaction. Or a normal client.

So it would have been looked into, and chances are that during that "looking into" something was found that didn't look right. Likely on the client side.

 

Once again:

  1. What day did you log the time?
  2. What day did it all go wrong?
  3. Whose idea was that $ 720 an hour contract format? Yours or the client's?
  4. Have you asked the client to pay again as a bonus payment?
  5. Are you still communicating with the client?

 

Ok, Here are all the files probing I began talking to this client on Friday May 3th. I worked for 2 days long and then when it was ready He contracted me, I imagine that just like me, he did not think this would represent a problem, less if we have a long conversation with files to probe we were working together. But nop, upwork just give them back the money!!!

:'( I hard worked. Now I am very depressed to keep working with no guarantees :'(. I really feel destroid, I really needed and worked that money

 

**Edited for community guidelines**


Marcela M wrote:

Ok, Here are all the files probing I began talking to this client on Friday May 3th. I worked for 2 days long and then when it was ready He contracted me, I imagine that just like me, he did not think this would represent a problem, less if we have a long conversation with files to probe we were working together. But nop, upwork just give them back the money!!!


Can you calm the hell down. It doesn't matter what proves long conversations. All that matters is what happened when. Can you answer the questions I have now asked over and over again.

 

WHEN did you log the hour

WHEN did Upwork reverse the payment

 

Upwork almost certainly didn't "give them the money back" because it was almost certainly either not their money, or they never paid it to Upwork in the first place.

 

To help answer that I need to know WHEN  you logged the hour and WHEN Upwork reversed the payment.

Thank you, is difficult to calm down when you get sicked for a job with no refund.

I tracked the hour Sunday May 7, they took from me Sunday May 7

Thank you, is difficult to calm down when you get sicked for a job with no refund.
I tracked the hour Sunday May 7, they took from me Sunday May 7

petra_r
Community Member

OK, from your screenshots it is perfectly obvious that the "client" is a fraudster.

They deliberately pushed to get the work on the weekend on an hourly basis (hence the large hourly rate)

They are no more in Germany than you are and basically what happened is that their payment method declined.

 

Upwork did not give them their money back, there was never any money in the first place.

 

 

 

 

So, evertything is my fault, yes, I already had concluded that like 3 messages before, thank you!
What I do not understand is:
1. Why upwork cannot just simply confirm what you are saying? What are they scared of? WHen somebody in upworks tells me this was fault from the client side I will not disturb anymore, but they insist in hiding information.
2. Why do they allow this kind of thing to happen?? Why do not verify clients budget before they cheat stupid freelancers like me?. Why cannot retain the money? why waiting for the fraud?


Marcela M wrote:


2. Why do they allow this kind of thing to happen?? Why do not verify clients budget before they cheat stupid freelancers like me?. Why cannot retain the money? why waiting for the fraud?


They do. You let the client trick you into using a workaround that avoided this. If you had set up an hourly contract properly, when you started working, you would have seen a very clear warning not to start working until your client's payment method was verified. 

And sorry if I do not recognize and "obvious fraudant", sorry for being so stupid in trusting people! I thought we were the rats


Petra R wrote:

Marcela M wrote:


1) So why they cannot tell me which is this case?

2. What are you suggesting with "dodgy"? Are you suggesting I am kind of delincuent trying to take benefit from an online platform?
3) I did not add manually work, i recorded using the app as I have done many times.


1.  No idea

2. No, I am not suggesting that you are dodgy, but that what you tried to do must have looked super suspicious to Upwork. Someone with a history of $ 20 to $ 30 an hour contracts being hired at $ 720 an hour will instantly have sent  out automated fraud-alerts.  At such an hourly rate you could (theoretically) create thousands of Dollars of earnings in a matter of a few hours. That could open up the danger of a client using a stolen credit card or money laundering and all sorts of horrible things. People don't have a rate increase of 2000% overnight.... Surely you must see that this looked odd? Is the client a new client? Whose idea was this? (With the hourly contract at $ 720)

 

3. You have never before successfully logged time at an hourly rate of $ 720.....

 

When did you log that hour?

 

Take a deep breath and ask the client to clarify that the money has been returned, and to please pay as a bonus payment.


I did not think about this possibility, but it's certainly an excellent point. That's why alarms bells went off. So my thinking about this is out (#4)

 

We know that for you to take a deep breath, is not easy, because is your money, no matter the amount, is your work's value, but with more context to the situation, you'll get the help you need to understand the situation.

 

About the client, have you talked to him, is he responding to you, is he account still good?


Marcela M wrote:

OK, it was like this. 
The client needed a program made using assembly language (which is very specific and complicated). He needed to be sure the task was working on a hard deadline. This was a job that you suceed or not. That is why not until I succeed he officially contract me in upwork. We defined I was going to receive 600USD, so they paid that hour at 740USD, so after upwork taking 140, I will have my 600. I reported the hour, as I have done many times. I cannot understand why they just pick my hour to be as "fraudulent". According to the client, they just did the pay, and that is why I doubt so much on upwork. It looks like they saw a high rated hour and just say is not valid, and did not even check I was chating with this client for around 24 hours with no stopping. I was not laughing with him, I WAS WORKING ALL NIGHT!!!!!. I have the conversation to probe it.
Also, when I ask upwork people to tell me if my client was indeed a fraud, they reply "we cannot give details to protect privacy". How can they prefer protect the privacy of someone that is supposed to be a fraud?. Anyway, I am nos asking for details, I am just want them to assure me that it was a fraudulent transaction from the clients side, or just a whim of upwork to do not let me get what I earned!


Since my point of view, there are many things that could have lead to a disaster.

1) You mixed hourly with fixed-price (this kind of mix will no end well)

2) If you worked with a delivery you should have worked with fixed-price only, with the whole amount funded (and payment method verify) and only request payment upon completion, I think this could have ended well.

3) It looks like you inputted that hour manually, no covered by Upwork protection, so if the client dispute, he will win by default, every time, that's on you, not UpWork.

4) Manual hours are paid in the same way normal hours are paid too (within limit), as long as the client doesn't dispute. Again, if the client disputes manual hours, he wins.

4) You mentioned the only hour you added was "fraudulent" because is too high, I don't think this might be, but I could be wrong, let's wait for others to comment, but I think that as long as the client is willing to pay that amount I don't see the problem.

5) But if the client is serious he still can pay you thru bonus.

6) Finally, just to give more context, give us more info of the client per se: Dated he joined, how much had he spend, % hide rate, etc, 

7) I will treat whatever the client says with a grain of salt, but that's just me.

Hello, thanks for your reply

1) and 2)
Yes, you are right. Nevertheless I still would like to know if the client is the fraud or upwork just decide to give him the money back.

3) Ihave never added manually time in upwork.

4) Manual hours are paid in the same way normal hours are paid too (within limit), as long as the client doesn't dispute. Again, if the client disputes manual hours, he wins.
The client did not dispute anything as long as I know, and again, it was not added manualy

4) You mentioned the only hour you added was "fraudulent" because is too high, I don't think this might be, but I could be wrong, let's wait for others to comment, but I think that as long as the client is willing to pay that amount I don't see the problem.
YES!!! I expected that too. What is the problem if He paid?? It looks to me that they thought this was a fraudeulent job, which really offends me as I am old using the application and I have more than 16 jobs with a 100% job succes. I am not here to do ilegal transactions, just to work! also, I have the conversations and files I sent to the client to probe this is nothing bad what I did! I was working and they just gave the money back to the client. Of course, he must be very happy he got his complicated job done for free!!!

5) But if the client is serious he still can pay you thru bonus.
I do not know what to think about the client, as upwork still avoiding my question: was the client a fraud or they just considered it was not a legal transaction?. Their actitude makes me think that they just took my job as non-trustable (no matters if I have been working with them so long with good reputation).

6) Finally, just to give more context, give us more info of the client per se: Dated he joined, how much had he spend, % hide rate, etc,
I attach an image

 

7) I will treat whatever the client says with a grain of salt, but that's just me.
I still do not know who is responsible of this, Upwork or the client, but you are right again

Was the job already completed before the contract started? What were you doing during the one hour you logged with the tracker?

Yes I completed before 😞 and what I did while the hour was tracked was finally breathing and eating somethig. It really was a demanding job :'( that is why it hurts that much. I literally got sick because of it :'(. And no refund, no explanation, extremelly frustrating.
Nevertheless, I have probes of my conversations with him, that we shared files, all we did it using upwork, why couldn't they just check my conversations and file sharing with the client?. They just gave them the moeny back. Of course they are happy now, and they do not reply anymore :'(


Marcela M wrote:

why couldn't they just check my conversations and file sharing with the client?. They just gave them the moeny back. Of course they are happy now, and they do not reply anymore :'(


Chances are that was either never "their" money in the first place or they never paid it and that is why they are not replying anymore.

 

When (day!!) did you log the time and when (day) did Upwork reverse the funds?

 

 


Marcela M wrote:

Yes I completed before 😞 and what I did while the hour was tracked was finally breathing and eating somethig.


So you didn't qualify for payment protection because you didn't have useful screenshots. This thread is a mess.

Looking at your screenshot I am not surprised it was deemed a risky transaction.

The client was brand new,  the country, timezone and contact name don't necessarily fit, and hired someone at an hourly rate that is like 30 times higher than normal.

 

If I was sitting in Upwork's Risk Management Department I'd have had a heart attack too at that sight...

 

DEAR UPWORK COMMUNITY,

Thanks for your time, it is very clear for me that you also take me as the bad person and even as a delincuent in this situation. It was completely my fault to have been cheated with 600UDS. It was completely my fault to be hardworking and do this complicated job expecting a reward. It is completely my fauls then, nothing I can do. I will have to begin looking people in the world different, just as they see me. 

Kind regards


Marcela M wrote:

DEAR UPWORK COMMUNITY,

Thanks for your time, it is very clear for me that you also take me as the bad person and even as a delincuent in this situation. It was completely my fault to have been cheated with 600UDS. It was completely my fault to be hardworking and do this complicated job expecting a reward. It is completely my fauls then, nothing I can do. I will have to begin looking people in the world different, just as they see me. 

Kind regards


Marcela,

 

I have read through this thread and the only person saying something negative about you were you. Everybody was trying to help you understand what is going on. No one accused you of any wrongdoing. Try do find a solution with the client like a bonus but do not accuse other freelancers, that spend their valuable time trying to help you, of calling you a criminal.

Marcela - First of all, Upwork didn't take your money. They never even had your money. Escrow is not used on hourly jobs, Upwork bills the client directly by taking out what's owed from the client's financial account. For hourly contracts, seven things must be adhered to in order for you to get paid. If you adhere to that, Upwork will pay you out of their own pocket. 

 

1. Before starting work, you MUST be offered a contract which you can accept or decline. Were you offered a contract on this site? (A client saying, "you're hired" does not constitute a contract.)

2. A clients account MUST be verified. Was the clients account verified before you started work - Did it show as verified? (Do not start working until you see that the account is verified.)

3. You Must use Tracker to record the actual work you are doing. Did you use Tracker WHILE you were actually working on the project?  (manual hours, or screen shots showing you were doing something else other then actual working will not be counted.)

4. You Must type in notes on the screen shots Tracker takes. Did you type on notes on what you were doing on the screen shots?

5. You must have normal, reasonable keystroke activity. Did you just let the tracker run for an hour without doing the work, or have very low or very high keystroke activity during that hour? (No or very low keystrokes can and will be interpreted as not working. High activity might mean you were using some sort of keystroke logger program.)

 

Take a deep breath because I am NOT accusing you of anything, I am just pointing out what must be done in order to be paid. If you answered NO to just one of the 5 things above, then THAT is the reason you were not paid. 

Hello people

I know I was stupid, I always had good experiences before. I will never trust anyone again in my life. But now I am concerned, I think he is trying to cheat some one else!!! even he just offered me a new job! What can we do to get this person? He is now under the name **Edited for community guidelines** , also from Germany and non-verified. The one who cheated me was under the name **Edited for community guidelines**. I do not think this is coincidence, do you???. WHat can be done so possible other super stupid freelancers like me do not fall in this trap?


Marcela M wrote:

 I think he is trying to cheat some one else!!! even he just offered me a new job!


click on "flag as inappropriate" immediately and explain details

Hi Marcela,

 

Thanks for flagging this for us. I already filed a report for our team's review and we will take action as per our internal processes. 

 

Thank you.

~ Bojan
Upwork

Hello Community,

Thank you all for your comments. I feel extremely stupid, and actually that is just what I am. I wish I never shared this self-causing bad experience, Now all of you know which is the worst, most stupid freelancer in all the community. Hope you are not laughing too much.

If there is a way to delete this post, please let me know... :'(


Marcela M wrote:

Hello Community,

Now all of you know which is the worst, most stupid freelancer in all the community.


Nice try Marcella, but I'm sorry, the title of the most stupid freelancer in all the community is already taken. You may try next year, but competition is harsh.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Marcela M wrote:

Hello Community,

Thank you all for your comments. I feel extremely stupid, and actually that is just what I am. I wish I never shared this self-causing bad experience, Now all of you know which is the worst, most stupid freelancer in all the community. Hope you are not laughing too much.

If there is a way to delete this post, please let me know... :'(


Don't be so hard on yourself. These kind things happen. As long as you use the system correctly you can work safely.

 

Now that you have shared this case, you got all the info about what really happens, and of course how to avoid that again in the future, and warned (if anyone cares to read) others freelancers not to fall for it.


Marcela M wrote:

Hello Community,

Thank you all for your comments. I feel extremely stupid, and actually that is just what I am. I wish I never shared this self-causing bad experience, Now all of you know which is the worst, most stupid freelancer in all the community. Hope you are not laughing too much.

If there is a way to delete this post, please let me know... :'(


Marcela, unfortunately it's quite common for freelancers to make this type of mistake. Mostly, it happens because people are so eager to start making money that they skip reading the rules and learning how Upwork works. You're far from alone in having been taken advantage of by an unscrupulous client, and many other freelancers who have made this type of mistake have learned from it and gone on to be successful here.

Latest Articles
Featured Topics
Learning Paths