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IMPORTANT! - Time tracker calculation costing clients extra $$$ ?

setumonroe
Community Guru
Setu M Member Since: Jan 26, 2014
21 of 47

@Petra R wrote:

@Setu M wrote:

@Petra R wrote:

 1) On the Upwork tracker / billing system it starts at XX.X0 and ends 10minutes later.  Provided the tracker is on and  screenshot is taken that 10 minute time-segment is billed to the client.

 

2) I don't undrstand what you mean, can you clarify?


  1. If I start the tracker at 10:32, the 10 minute segment starts at 10:32. The screenshot can be taken at any time in that 10 minute period (so at 10:33 / 10:34 / 10:35 etc. If I start the tracker at 10:30 or 10:39, the same principle applies. Because the tracker works irrespective of actual time (real time), but in relative time - 1 minute ago, 2 minutes ago, 3 minutes ago etc.

 Not true. What you describe above is absolutely NOT how the tracker works at all.

 

The 10 minute segments are from XX.X0 to XX.X0 ten minutes later. ALWAYS.

 

If there is any activity AND a screenshot between say, 10.30 and 10.40 that segment will get billed and a new segment begins at 10.40 lasting to 10.50 and so on and soon.

 

If you log in at 10.36 and work then there WILL be a screenshot BEFORE 10.40 and that segment gets billed with 4 minutes activity showing on the diary.

 

If you log in at 10.33 a screenshot will be taken BEFORE 10.40 as that is the time segment.

 

"

  • If I start at 10:32 and the first screenshot is taken at 10:34 (which is usually the case), 10 minutes is billed although I have worked 2 minutes. Now the tracker must snap once within a 10 minute period so it can literally snap again at 10:35, ."

that is absolute nonsense. There will NEVER be two screenshots in any one 10.30 to 10.40 time segment. You don't understand how the tracker works.

 

" The tracker will now have to wait 17 more minutes before it can snap again (3 mins + 17 mins = 20 mins). "

 

NO! Nononononono!

 

 

 

 

 


So I have some time on my hands. Yes I gave a bad example with the timeframes, but the point still stands. The point which you seem to be skirting around.

 

The time tracker will always snap once in every "real time" 10 minute interval as I stated here, sorry about the confusion in this thread. But what about the point that there can be 19+ minutes in between snaps, during which time the freelancer is bound to stop tracking. Or the times when there are 2 minutes between snaps, in which case the client is overcharged.

 

While I appreciate the correction re the difference in the "real time" 10 minutes, don't forget what the thread is about and the point I have made. The tracker inevitably shortchanges the client or the freelancer without our error correction.

 

The tracker can snap at 10:39 and again at 10:41 (2 minutes in between) - if the clock is stopped the client is shorted.

The tracker can snap at 10:31 and 10:50 (18 minutes in between) - if the freelancer stopped tracking between this large gap, the freelancer is shorted.

---- easy like Sunday morning ----
setumonroe
Community Guru
Setu M Member Since: Jan 26, 2014
22 of 47

@Petra R wrote:

I am not saying it's the best system to do it this way, but if we're criticising it it helps to know what actually DOES happen to understand how it could be improved.

 


 Try not to get cheeky, we are having a civil discussion.

---- easy like Sunday morning ----
setumonroe
Community Guru
Setu M Member Since: Jan 26, 2014
23 of 47

I am surprised that you are defending such a poor system.

 

I could easily do this 5 times a day:

 

Start at 10:09 - Clock snaps - $15 earned - 1 minute worked

Clock snaps between 10:10 and 10:20 - $30 total earned - 11 total minutes worked

Clock snaps 10:21 or thereabout - $45 total earned - 13 total minutes worked

 

Should I continue?

By devising these complex systems - Upwork only opens clients to abuse. How about using time for what it is - time.

---- easy like Sunday morning ----
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
24 of 47

@Setu M wrote:

I am surprised that you are defending such a poor system.


 I am not defending it. I am merely explaining how it works (and how it doesn't)

 

Personally I just work within its restrictions by working from the beginning of a segment such as starting at 11.00or 11.40 or whatever, and work to the end of the one where I'm done. That way I get paid for all the time I've worked and the client is charged only for work time. Simple

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
25 of 47

If we want to make sure clients get their full 10 minutes work per segment paid, and we get paid for each segment worked, we can start at the beginning of a segment (say at 10.30) and work until the end of a segment (say at 12.30)

 

That way 2 hours were worked, 2 hours were tracked, 2 hours are billed, and 2 hours are paid.

 

The hourly system is not suited to stop-start jobs, it works best for working for longer periods of time, but in that context doing the above means nobody is short-changed at all.

setumonroe
Community Guru
Setu M Member Since: Jan 26, 2014
26 of 47
Or how about unhitching the screenshots from time logged. That way the freelancer would always get what they log without watching the clock (like an employee); and the client would always get what they paid for.

You are suggesting work-arounds for a broken system, rather than a simple age-old solution.
---- easy like Sunday morning ----
oquintela
Community Guru
Olga Q Member Since: Sep 5, 2012
27 of 47

Petra, it seems your time tracker is working as it should. But if you look at the screenshots posted by Tony and myself, I think that it becomes obvious that something is wrong, so it seems to me you're choosing not to see the evidence.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
28 of 47

No, nothing is wrong. If a screenshot happens the segment is counted and charged.


@Olga Q wrote:

Petra, it seems your time tracker is working as it should. But if you look at the screenshots posted by Tony and myself, I think that it becomes obvious that something is wrong, so it seems to me you're choosing not to see the evidence.


 You are mixing up time worked, time logged, and time billed Smiley Happy the upper green number counts the time the tracker has been on and the lower shows the time billed to the client, which is always in 10 minute segments, so 30 or 1.40 or 4.20 and so on.

 

Tony had 4 screenshots with activity and 4 x 10 minutes were billed. That is the way it works.

 

Your client gets billed for each segment where 1) there is activity and b) there is a screenshot.

 

If you work from the start of a segment (starting at 10.20 or 3.40 or 5.10 and work to the end of the last one you get paid for all segments you worked and the client only pays for all the segments where there was work.

 

My work diary tends to look like below. I start at the beginning and finish at the end. Nobody loses out.

 

work diary.jpg

 

 

oquintela
Community Guru
Olga Q Member Since: Sep 5, 2012
29 of 47

@Petra R wrote:

 

[…]

 

If you work from the start of a segment (starting at 10.20 or 3.40 or 5.10 and work to the end of the last one you get paid for all segments you worked and the client only pays for all the segments where there was work.

 

 


 I have just worked from 5:30 to 6:30 - I think this is what you call a segment. The screenshot, taken at 6:28 shows that I have logged 1 hour [it shows 2 because I've worked 1 before] despite the fact that I have worked 58 minutes. I'm only posting this to show you that what you've been saying (that nothing is wrong) is not correct. Anyway, this is my last attempt to convince you.

 

 

Last screenshot taken at 18.28 shows 1 hour logged vs 58 minutes worked.png

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
30 of 47

@Olga Q wrote:

@Petra R wrote:

 

[…]

 

If you work from the start of a segment (starting at 10.20 or 3.40 or 5.10 and work to the end of the last one you get paid for all segments you worked and the client only pays for all the segments where there was work.

 

 


 I have just worked from 5:30 to 6:30 - I think this is what you call a segment. The screenshot, taken at 6:28 shows that I have logged 1 hour [it shows 2 because I've worked 1 before] despite the fact that I have worked 58 minutes. I'm only posting this to show you that what you've been saying (that nothing is wrong) is not correct. Anyway, this is my last attempt to convince you.

 

 

Last screenshot taken at 18.28 shows 1 hour logged vs 58 minutes worked.png


 Olga, that's because at the time a screenshot has been taken 27 seconds earlier. That means the relevant segment gets charged to the client. Time is billed, charged and paid in those 10 minute segments.

 

As they always have been.

 

As time is charged in 10 minute segments it means 6 x 10 minute segments are being charged because there were 6 segments with activity and screenshots.

 

Again, I am not defending the way the tracker works. It works that way and always has done, and yes, it could and should be improved, but your tracker works exactly as designed, and the way it always has done.

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