๐Ÿˆ Community
ยป Forums ยป Freelancers ยป If a job/project shows someone was "Hired" be...
Page options
johnhammell
Member

If a job/project shows someone was "Hired" below the details, is that project no longer open?

I'm new to Upwork and have been reviewing a lot of jobs/projects in the past two days.

 

If a job is still in the job search results, does that mean the job is still open / unfilled?  Often there are simple projects where it shows below the details that someone was "Hired."

 

Does that mean the job is no longer active?  If so, then why do jobs like that still show in the search results?

 

I need some clarification on this as I do not want to be wasting credits for connections by making proposals for jobs/projects which have already been filled.

 

Thanks,

 

John

45 REPLIES 45
mwiggenhorn
Member

Some clients either hire more than one freelancer and/or leave the job open because they are not sold on the freelancer they hired.


@Mary W wrote:

Some clients either hire more than one freelancer and/or leave the job open because they are not sold on the freelancer they hired.


Except for the fact the contracts, one agreed to and the job awarded, are between the client and *that* freelancer. They just can't take me off a contract and put you on it. What if there were milestones already paid? What if it's an hourly project and money is still being processed. Then there is any disputes that client might have with the freelancer or vice versa which is now why they are looking for a new freelancer. Again that contract is now tied up in disputes. Any further work by anoher freelancer on that contract would be a horrible mess to figure out what part of that contract was done by freelancer A and what was done by the new freelancer.

 

You would take a contract between you and a client and just scribble a new clients name on it? No, because it's a binding agreement. 


Tom R wrote:

@Mary W wrote:

Some clients either hire more than one freelancer and/or leave the job open because they are not sold on the freelancer they hired.


Except for the fact the contracts, one agreed to and the job awarded, are between the client and *that* freelancer. They just can't take me off a contract and put you on it. What if there were milestones already paid? What if it's an hourly project and money is still being processed. Then there is any disputes that client might have with the freelancer or vice versa which is now why they are looking for a new freelancer. Again that contract is now tied up in disputes. Any further work by anoher freelancer on that contract would be a horrible mess to figure out what part of that contract was done by freelancer A and what was done by the new freelancer.

 

You would take a contract between you and a client and just scribble a new clients name on it? No, because it's a binding agreement. 


You're mixing contracts and jobs. A client can open any number of contracts based on the same job posting.


@Mary W wrote:

Some clients either hire more than one freelancer and/or leave the job open because they are not sold on the freelancer they hired.


 That mkes more sense to me. I was thinking the same thing becuase I was looking at the perfect job that fit my skills, but it's done by a freelancer but job is still open.

lakitel
Member

 In most cases, if a job shows up in the search then it's still available.

 

 If it says hired and yet the job is still listed, it's possible the client needs more than one freelancer. It should say under every job "x freelancers needed" in white with a green background. I'm not 100% sure how the system works, but I believe that a listing is considered as no longer available once the positions needed have been filled.

 

 I would also advice that if it's a slightly older job, like for example three days or so, you should check the client activity to make sure that the client is still interacting with the job listing, as it does sometimes happen where a listing goes up, and the client forgets about it. Usually though, that's new clients to the platform who came to try and then decided not to go through with it.

 

 If you stick with rated clients with a verified form of payment, you should be ok.

taustinray
Member

There is no clarification. The question about how jobs are staying open and accepting bids after someone was hired for the job has been speculated. Some say it's because the client needs multiple freelancers, but yet there is an option to say "I need X amount of freelancers." so if they say they need 1 why do they need to keep looking? Others say it's because it allows the client to not have to repost the job if the freelancer they hired doesn't work out. Which also doesn't make sense because everything is tied to that contract between the client and the freelancer. You just can't switch up freelancers on an existing project.

 

Really I believe this is a bug or just poor design. I noticed there was a job today that was still open for bidding even though it showed 1 Hired. Yet just below that it shows in the "Complete Jobs" list, already closed, paid out and freelancer feedback given. So what is the reason that this job is still open? It shouldn't be. Most would believe this is because it allows the freelancers to still submit proporals and burn up connects so they would have to buy more. It's a bit hard not to find this logic true. The only way you know the job has a freelancer hired is if you notice that "1 Hired" line mixed in with all the other proposal details. Why it doesn't flag it and highlight for people to see that it's been awarded, I don't know.

 

But perhaps the extra fees will pay for this to be overhauled to be something that actually works right.


@Tom R wrote:

There is no clarification. The question about how jobs are staying open and accepting bids after someone was hired for the job has been speculated. Some say it's because the client needs multiple freelancers, but yet there is an option to say "I need X amount of freelancers." so if they say they need 1 why do they need to keep looking? Others say it's because it allows the client to not have to repost the job if the freelancer they hired doesn't work out. Which also doesn't make sense because everything is tied to that contract between the client and the freelancer. You just can't switch up freelancers on an existing project.

 

Really I believe this is a bug or just poor design. I noticed there was a job today that was still open for bidding even though it showed 1 Hired. Yet just below that it shows in the "Complete Jobs" list, already closed, paid out and freelancer feedback given. So what is the reason that this job is still open? It shouldn't be. Most would believe this is because it allows the freelancers to still submit proporals and burn up connects so they would have to buy more. It's a bit hard not to find this logic true. The only way you know the job has a freelancer hired is if you notice that "1 Hired" line mixed in with all the other proposal details. Why it doesn't flag it and highlight for people to see that it's been awarded, I don't know.

 

But perhaps the extra fees will pay for this to be overhauled to be something that actually works right.


Tom,

 

It is not a bug. It is the way Upwork intended it to be. There are jobs that have not hired anyone that are still open that are 3 years old. There are jobs that the client may hire someone and have agreed privately that is a test or temporary job, and then hire another person.

 

 https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Jobs-Expiring-but/m-p/83907#M37359

 

Some jobs just don't get closed as the client is new and doesn't know how to close it. But there are many that they want to see how the person who hired them works out before closing the job. Even though there is a choice to hire for x amount of freelancers I have seen clients hire more then one off the same post without using the option that they want x amount of freelancers.

 

I was hired for a job awhile back that she hired three of us on a trial basis. Although this was not stated in the job description it was discussed with the freelancers during the interview.

In all my job postings I always said I was hiring only one freelancer, but I often hired more than that. Sometimes it was my intention all along to hire multiple people. Sometimes I simply was really impressed by two different people and hired them both.

 

I have hired three to five people while saying I only wanted one. The most people I hired for a single job was about a dozen, but that was by private invite.

Preston,**Edited for community guidelines**. If you might hire more that one person why not 'fess up and just say that in your posting. I am guessing that you have never been a freelancer and had to put up with this kind of mess.**Edited for community guidelines**

Though not a bug, it's still poor design.

 

Ok Upwork, here's how its done:

 

Add a conditional, Clients can't "hire" without closing the job. They can "trial" or "PoC" phase the job.

 

I would also add a sweet, friendly bit of text to the posting (required field, with a default "Job Open, Still Accepting Applications").  And give it options like "We hired someone to request a prototype (or more samples)" "We Hired somone and they are rocking it"

 

 

Thanks for the feedback, Willi.

 

When a client hires a freelancer for a job, they are asked if they'd like to close the posting or keep it open. Some clients choose to keep the posting open because they are planning to hire more than one freelancer for the project or may come back to it if the first hire doesn't work out. We'd like to give them that option.

~ Valeria
Upwork

You thank Willi for the feedback but don't seem to take it seriously. Willi suggests options that would help the contractor but your statement makes clear that the policy is to help the client, not the contractor. 

By the way, I have also suggested ways to make this less frustrating for contractors and there have undoubtedly been other recommendations too. Upwork does not appear to respect its contractors enough to either make these changes or explain why it is not willing to make them.   


@Cathy C wrote:

You thank Willi for the feedback but don't seem to take it seriously. Willi suggests options that would help the contractor but your statement makes clear that the policy is to help the client, not the contractor. 


 How would it help the contractor to force a client to close a job rather than preserving the option of hiring an additional contractor (or more than one) later?

 

I've been hired after a client has hired someone else, on very good jobs. One of them was a $6,000 fixed price job. I'd hate to have missed out on that because some freelancers don't want to have to bother to check hires on a job before bidding and make an informed decision.


@Valeria K wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, Willi.

 

When a client hires a freelancer for a job, they are asked if they'd like to close the posting or keep it open. Some clients choose to keep the posting open because they are planning to hire more than one freelancer for the project or may come back to it if the first hire doesn't work out. We'd like to give them that option.


 Valeria, I 100% agree with leaving this optional. But, what do you think about offering the client another, similar option to close the job when closing the contract? It seems likely that clients who want to keep the job open at hiring might often be ready to close it when they've completed a contract, but either forget about it or assume that closing the contract will close the posting.

vladag
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Tiffany,

 

Thank you for the suggestion, we'll share it with our Product team.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Tiffany,

 

If the client is really open to proposals after hiring someone, then there should be a way to indicate that.  If they are not open to hiring someone else for a specific job,  but still wants more proposals, that could be indicated as well. Either way, we should know if the client really wants proposals or not and we should be able to filter jobs by this status.  

 

Not only would this spare the contractor from wasting time to submit proposals, it would help the client as well. Contractors would be more willing to submit proposals if they know that the client is open to them.

 

Upwork: When a client closes the post, don't they still have access to the proposals from those who applied? If not, why not? It would be really helpful if what the client sees and has access to were not so opaque to contractors.

 

It is time intensive and maddening it is to have to sort through numerous posts to find the ones that have not already been filled. Contractors should be able to know the status without having to open each individual post. 

 

Designing the platform to be more helpful for contractors is possible. This is not asking too much and might make me (and others) more inclined to use it. 


@Cathy C wrote:

 

 

It is time intensive and maddening it is to have to sort through numerous posts to find the ones that have not already been filled. Contractors should be able to know the status without having to open each individual post. 

 

 


 I'm surprised by this. We're loosely in the same field, and I can't think of more than two or three times in the past 18 months when I've seen a job posting that was interesting and then discovered that someone had already been hired.

 

In some fields, hiring happens very quickly, but in writing/editing that is not usually the case (except at the extreme low end, which you are not). How often do you check the job feed?

That has not been my experience. Perhaps I search more categories or look at older posts more than you.

 

Either way, this is an issue that can be addressed. Do you really object if a change would make using the platform easier for people like me?

 

 


@Cathy C wrote:

That has not been my experience. Perhaps I search more categories or look at older posts more than you.

 

Either way, this is an issue that can be addressed. Do you really object if a change would make using the platform easier for people like me?

 

 


 Honestly, yes. Upwork has serious issues with stability and bugs, and you'll often see regular users practically begging Upwork to stop adding features (most of which will also be flawed) and fix the infrastructure. 

 

After that's done, if Upwork wants to add conveniences that are only useful to some people, I obviously wouldn't have a problem with that--provided that they could find a way to do it that wouldn't both inconvenience clients and reduce job opportunities for other freelancers. But, we're a very long way from the platform being reliably functional enough to even think about focusing energy, money and dev time on "might be nice if" features.

Agreeing with Tiffany. I don't have much difficulty identifying the jobs that aren't applicable to me and checking the hired number before applying. I purchased connects during my first few months at Upwork as I was still trying to find my niche and learning the ropes. But I don't think I've run out of connects in over a year.

 

I have learned to be efficient in making proposals and choosing gigs, that's just part of being a freelancer. If I were applying for jobs in the 'real world' I probably wouldn't know everything about the status of the job either. 

I am in a different field (graphic design) and I see job postings all the time that are still active and also show that the client has made a hire. I believe all of this could be solved if clients simply had to say that the job is closed, or that they are still looking for additional freelancers and answer additional pertinent questions. They could just check a check box to implement this. It's really not complicated, but in absence of this simple solution look at the mess and misunderstandings this has caused and the hundreds of wasted hours people have spent commenting on this.

Ooooookaaayyy....


John M wrote:

I am in a different field (graphic design) and I see job postings all the time that are still active and also show that the client has made a hire. I believe all of this could be solved if clients simply had to say that the job is closed, or that they are still looking for additional freelancers and answer additional pertinent questions. They could just check a check box to implement this. It's really not complicated, but in absence of this simple solution look at the mess and misunderstandings this has caused and the hundreds of wasted hours people have spent commenting on this.

 


 Clients DO have to choose whether or not to leave the job open when making a hire.

Shouldn't  transparency let free-lancers know whether a closed job involved at least one hire, or none? If the NONE percentage is very high, it means the wise free-lancer would be far more selective in submitting proposals to established Upwork clients.

 

Or am I missing something -- I have something like 50 proposals, 47 of which are CLOSED with no apparent indication of the outcome of the process.  What does this tell me?

It's not in Upwork's best interest to close the job, regardless of whether the client wants to keep it open or not. Upwork wants you to think you have a shot, that way you'll burn through your Connects faster and have to buy more through them. And now with this new policy where you have to pay to submit a proposal, it's only going to get better for them...that is until freelancers start their mass exodus from this site.

 

Think this through, Upwork. Just like with Uber -- when you piss off your talent pool by lowering their income potential, sooner or later they're not going to use you anymore. Short-sighted, to say the least.


Steven C wrote:

It's not in Upwork's best interest to close the job, regardless of whether the client wants to keep it open or not. Upwork wants you to think you have a shot, that way you'll burn through your Connects faster and have to buy more through them. And now with this new policy where you have to pay to submit a proposal, it's only going to get better for them...that is until freelancers start their mass exodus from this site.

 

Think this through, Upwork. Just like with Uber -- when you piss off your talent pool by lowering their income potential, sooner or later they're not going to use you anymore. Short-sighted, to say the least.


Well, if a bunch just leave, I guess technically they've just increased my earning potential so clients don't have to wade through the trash. It seems to me like their *actual* talent pool isn't really pissed about this.

bundie702
Member

I have noticed that as well. Last week I was offered a contract, and when I checked the job it said "Hired: 1." I ended up declining the contract (client offered me less than what I considered acceptable). So maybe it shows "Hired" if an offer is made, even if it's not accepted...?

vladag
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Bettye,

 

No, only accepted offers count as hires.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Because we pay for Connects, I believe that it is unethical to let freelancers apply for jobs when a position is no longer available.   It is also time-consuming and frustrating to sort through numerous listings that are no longer open.

 

When I first started, it never occurred to me that filled positions would still pop up.  So, I assumed that "Hires" in "Client Activity" refers to the number of positions to be filled.  Surely I am not the only one to have made the mistake of trusting that the system would make sense and be fair.   

 

The default should be that once someone is hired, job posts should no longer be available unless the client intentionally chooses another option.  Also, posts should automatically close after a certain period of time unless clients intentionally choose not to close them.  

 

Without waiting for an overhaul of the system, Upwork could make a simple, small change that would demonstrate a good-faith effort to increase transparency for freelancers.  They could clarify the status by changing "Hires" to "Hired" under "Client Activity."  I doubt that this could possibly be considered a difficult thing to do. 

It's been a few months since I've hired someone new, but from memory when I hire someone I have the option to either "close the job and notify the other applicants" or to leave the job open. I always close it (and I *think* but can't guarantee that that is the default) but other clients may have their own reasons for keeping a job open.

Even if they don't and the job remains open,  it usually shows as '1 hire' and then if you scroll down to jobs 'in progress' it will show if that particular job has been awarded - a bit of a workaround, but it is there. So  it is worth checking that bit before sending a proposal.

Yes, it certainly involves rigamarole that we should not have to go through.  

 

What is even more frustrating and inexplicable is that this important information should be in the supposed "Help" area but it is not.  It seems that the only way to really understand how this platform works is to spend precious time reading through numerous posts in these forums.  

 

A well-designed website should not require us to spend much time figuring out how the features are supposed to work and the company should provide insights that are easy to find. 


@Cathy C wrote:

Because we pay for Connects, I believe that it is unethical to let freelancers apply for jobs when a position is no longer available.   It is also time-consuming and frustrating to sort through numerous listings that are no longer open.

 

When I first started, it never occurred to me that filled positions would still pop up.  So, I assumed that "Hires" in "Client Activity" refers to the number of positions to be filled.  Surely I am not the only one to have made the mistake of trusting that the system would make sense and be fair.   

 

The default should be that once someone is hired, job posts should no longer be available unless the client intentionally chooses another option.  Also, posts should automatically close after a certain period of time unless clients intentionally choose not to close them.  

 

Without waiting for an overhaul of the system, Upwork could make a simple, small change that would demonstrate a good-faith effort to increase transparency for freelancers.  They could clarify the status by changing "Hires" to "Hired" under "Client Activity."  I doubt that this could possibly be considered a difficult thing to do. 


Cathy, I completely agree with this. I hope UpWork sees this discussion page and specifically your suggestion because it is dead-on. These were my exact thoughts as well.

I agree with the person who wrote before: ---------- "When I first started, it never occurred to me that filled positions would still pop up.  So, I assumed that "Hires" in "Client Activity" refers to the number of positions to be filled.  Surely I am not the only one to have made the mistake of trusting that the system would make sense and be fair.   Because we pay for Connects, I believe that it is unethical to let freelancers apply for jobs when a position is no longer available.   It is also time-consuming and frustrating to sort through numerous listings that are no longer open."  -------

 

When I started in Upwork, I am sure that I have lost some bids also. Meaning that I am pretty sure that I have bid for projects that were already fulfilled. I trusted the system also. In the first 3 months at least I have to stop bidding for a couple of days at the end of the month because I have used all my biddings. It makes me mad when I realized that projects being assigned to some translator are still there.

 

I read all the answers here in this post a few minutes ago and I am surprised to find out that Upwork did not settle that problem. Maybe I misunderstood something.

 

Is there some Upwork employees (paid by Upwork)  here, that can give the exact reason why those jobs are still appearing under "find work" or "find jobs"?????????

re: "Because we pay for Connects, I believe that it is unethical to let freelancers apply for jobs when a position is no longer available."

 

Why do you pay for connects?


I don't.

johnhammell
Member

It's been 1.5 years since I first started this discussion thread. I'm glad to see that Upwork staff members have taken notice of the issue and that there has been good consideration of the issue by those commenting here.

 

The week I started this discussion was right after I joined and spent some time over the course of a week or two searching for projects and submitting proposals. During that time I came across many projects still open/listed despite already having hired a freelancer for the project (and no indication of the project hiring more than one freelancer).

 

This past week, 18 months later, I've returned to Upwork and have spent a bit of time here again (and did land my first small project which was a good experience). However, again I have noticed quite a few job/project postings that remain open for proposals despite the client having already hired a freelancer. Notably, the small project that I landed this week specified at the very top of the project details "Needs to hire 5 Freelancers," so I immediately knew that they were still open to hiring additional freelancers even though one was already hired.

 

Open projects that have already hired a freelancer, without any indication at all that they want additional freelancers, simply causes confusion.

 

When I see those projects I wonder if maybe the client has simply become unresponsive and is no longer maintaining their job listing, or maybe they hired a freelancer and are happy but do not know how to close out the listing, or as has been mentioned by others in this discussion, a least desirable possibility, that maybe Upwork leaves those listings open so that freelancers waste connects on already closed jobs and run out sooner so they purchase more with the intended result of generating additional $ for Upwork. Sorry to suggest that last point and I have no idea if it is actually happening, but I am simply wanting to express the impression/feeling I get when jobs are left open that have already been filled by a freelancer without any indication at all that the client is wanting to hire additional freelancers. There shouldn't be that type of uncertainty and it really is an easy fix. It's actually too easy to fix to leave it as is.

 

Maybe after the client hires a freelancer and they are given the option to keep the listing open, if they choose to keep it open they should be asked how many additional freelancers they want to hire. Then upon getting that number, the message above the job listing is updated to reflect the total number of freelancers that they want to hire ("Needs to hire # Freelancers"). So, in that case it goes from an assumed 1 freelancer being needed initially to being updated with a specific number. Better would be : "Needs to hire # Freelancers (# Hired)" as that way we would know immediately if the client needs more (maybe they need 5 and so far only hired 3, for example).

 

Alternatively, maybe the client is uncertain. In that case they should also be able to give an ambiguous answer since even that would be more useful & helpful compared to the current setup. "Needs to hire _additional_ freelancer(s)" would be good. Or, better yet, "Open to considering additional Freelancers (1 Hired)" would be significantly better. A client doesn't have to be needing additional freelancers to keep their listing open, because just considering additional is fair (maybe still open to consider in case they find a really great match) - but we should specifically know that is the case instead of guessing what the status is.

 

In fact, maybe the 'freelancers needed' message should be standard for every listing.

 

The default message for an assumed 1 freelancer needed might be simply "Needs to hire 1 Freelancer." Other options that the client could select might be "Needs to hire 1 Freelancer, considering additional." or "Needs to hire 1 or more Freelancers", etc.

 

Then after the first hire the client could indicate if they want a specific number of additional freelancers, if they are ambiguous and "Considering to hire additional Freelancers (# Hired)" or if they just want to close their listing to additional applicants.

 

And yet another possibility... would it be useful for clients to have a backup log of applicants just in case the freelancer they hired did not work out? In those cases is it fair to require freelancers to use connects? Probably not, especially not if there is no intention to hire others.

 

Logically, if the system can state "Needs to hire 5 Freelancers" that means the system can also state "Needs to hire 2 Freelancers" and if nothing is stated at all that sort of implies the absense of needing anything (since when other numbers are needed it is specifically stated), so we might even think zero freelancers are needed because there is no message, but it actually means "Needs to hire 1 Freelancer" when left blank. So based on that, when it's left blank it also means "1 Hired, no additional needed" because that is literally what happens at times... and if I confused anybody with any of this that is sort of what I'm thinking when I see open job listings with an implied 1 freelancer needed along with 1 hired but it's still open without any indication at all as to whether the job is open, closed or even abandoned by the client.

 

One last point, there is value in keeping closed job listings in the database. It does show the activity here and also gives new members a good idea of the types of jobs that are posted. But there should be a toggle option to not show closed/ended jobs in the search results. Personally, I do not want to bother looking at any jobs that are no longer open for new hires.

 

Very sorry for such a long post. Maybe someone on the dev team can take all the info/ideas offered here to improve this aspect of the site.

 

 

 

 


@John H wrote:

It's been 1.5 years since I first started this discussion thread. I'm glad to see that Upwork staff members have taken notice of the issue and that there has been good consideration of the issue by those commenting here.

 

 

 

 


 I don't get it. Has something changed? Seems like they haven't changed it. This doesn't bother me and I don't care, but I'm interested in if something has changed.

I don't think anything has changed. OP is still convinced that Upwork is after his $2. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsxJfcFVnpo

Remember this? Better Off Dead (1985) - Paperboy - 2 dollars