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giave95
Community Member

In addition than Upwork contract i need a real paper contract but client does not want

Hello, i am here with a question of vital importance.

I am usually offered for very easy jobs, which do not need any paper contract (writing something for a few hours, little translations, etc). However, this time i applied for working as a sales representative or account manager.

It looked like the client had very good reviews and had paid other freelancers normally and was not a fake client.

He usually replies very slowly taking days to weeks. At the start, he spoke about sales representative/account manager which would become a country manager. To sell his eco-products in Europe and Asia. The point is, i am an Italian who has a tourist visa and is in Taiwan, but i have lived in Taiwan for one year previously with a student visa since i had won a scholarship of a period of one year to study in Taiwan and after i returned to Taiwan to stay with my boyfriend but since we are not married i am on tourist visa which is only worth 90 days. 

I know Italian, English and Chinese and in Italy, their products could not sell well, while in Taiwan, we could make huge profits. The problem is, he said, you can sell using email, phone or face to face and you get a base salary based on how much you sell, a commission of 10% over the sum of money of the products you sell, and a bonus based on how many products you sell. He was very slow in replying, and i asked him many times for a contract, explaining that to work to sell his products in Taiwan i need a work visa. He reminded me that the contract is over Upwork, and i know as well since i also am a client that if you post a job over Upwork but do not pay over Upwork, over Upwork is not legal. So, i asked to split the payment into contract over Upwork and real paper contract. 

I want to work in Taiwan since i have studied everything about Asia in my bachelor and i know Taiwan well since i have lived here for more than one year and a half.

But i also require a real paper contract also because i think account manager is an important position, but he said only country manager, which is the highest position has a real contract. But how i am supposed to become a country manager (sell 400000 of his products) without a legal real contract and how i am supposed to do with the visa of Taiwan?

Hope to hear pieces of advice from you, thank you. 

 

(also, if i need to do a real paper contract, i should be listed as a worker in Italy, Taiwan or Sweden, where he is from? Really do not know anything about it)

6 REPLIES 6
prestonhunter
Community Member

Giada:

If I want to create a database using MySQL, and nothing else. But the client wants the database to be Oracle... Then that means I won't be working for the client.

 

I have completed 177 jobs on Upwork and never had a paper contract. So it is definitely possible to work without a paper contract.

 

If you, personally want a real paper contract. Or even if you need a paper contract... That is fine. There's nothing wrong with that. You may work for any client who agrees to sign a paper contract.

 

If you encounter a client who won't sign a paper contract, then that is a client you won't be working for.

Thank you for your reply Preston,

i have also had as i said and i am having works with contracts only over Upwork, but this is for little works or works which lasts few hours or side jobs, not i mean, for jobs like sales representative, account manager and so on.

 

If i also had to make a website i would not need any paper contract and i could also work everywhere and just changing country every 90 days so i would not need a work permit, but in this case, i need a work permit to work selling their products in person.

 

They told me that the lower position will have only the contract of Upwork, while the most advanced one, a real paper contract. The truth is that i still cannot work for them even as an account manager in Taiwan without a work visa or i will be prohibited to enter again this country or even worse punishments.

 

Overall i still think this is a very important and profitable job, i would not like to lose this opportunity but my boss replies very slowly after days and i am not sure how to convince him.

petra_r
Community Member

Two completely unrelated matters:

 

1) You must not receive any payment outside the platform at all (none of this "half on Upwork - half not on Upwork") nonsense.

 

2) You need to ask the local immigration people if you are allowed to do any work (including self employed, online work) on a tourist visa.

 

hodgesh
Community Member

You should contact the Taiwanese government if you have questions about whether you can work there legally.

martina_plaschka
Community Member


Giada V wrote:

Hello, i am here with a question of vital importance.

I am usually offered for very easy jobs, which do not need any paper contract (writing something for a few hours, little translations, etc). However, this time i applied for working as a sales representative or account manager.

It looked like the client had very good reviews and had paid other freelancers normally and was not a fake client.

He usually replies very slowly taking days to weeks. At the start, he spoke about sales representative/account manager which would become a country manager. To sell his eco-products in Europe and Asia. The point is, i am an Italian who has a tourist visa and is in Taiwan, but i have lived in Taiwan for one year previously with a student visa since i had won a scholarship of a period of one year to study in Taiwan and after i returned to Taiwan to stay with my boyfriend but since we are not married i am on tourist visa which is only worth 90 days. 

I know Italian, English and Chinese and in Italy, their products could not sell well, while in Taiwan, we could make huge profits. The problem is, he said, you can sell using email, phone or face to face and you get a base salary based on how much you sell, a commission of 10% over the sum of money of the products you sell, and a bonus based on how many products you sell. He was very slow in replying, and i asked him many times for a contract, explaining that to work to sell his products in Taiwan i need a work visa. He reminded me that the contract is over Upwork, and i know as well since i also am a client that if you post a job over Upwork but do not pay over Upwork, over Upwork is not legal. So, i asked to split the payment into contract over Upwork and real paper contract. 

I want to work in Taiwan since i have studied everything about Asia in my bachelor and i know Taiwan well since i have lived here for more than one year and a half.

But i also require a real paper contract also because i think account manager is an important position, but he said only country manager, which is the highest position has a real contract. But how i am supposed to become a country manager (sell 400000 of his products) without a legal real contract and how i am supposed to do with the visa of Taiwan?

Hope to hear pieces of advice from you, thank you. 

 

(also, if i need to do a real paper contract, i should be listed as a worker in Italy, Taiwan or Sweden, where he is from? Really do not know anything about it)


 Frankly, this sounds like a real mess that I would stay miles away from. 

kat303
Community Member


Giada V wrote:

Hello, i am here with a question of vital importance.

I am usually offered for very easy jobs, which do not need any paper contract (writing something for a few hours, little translations, etc). However, this time i applied for working as a sales representative or account manager.

It looked like the client had very good reviews and had paid other freelancers normally and was not a fake client.

He usually replies very slowly taking days to weeks.

 

Taking days or weeks to reply may become a real problem especially if you need answers or assistance or if there is a matter of importance. While expecting a client to answer 5 minutes after you message them my not be realistic, waiting days to even weeks will impact your job.

 

At the start, he spoke about sales representative/account manager which would become a country manager. To sell his eco-products in Europe and Asia. The point is, i am an Italian who has a tourist visa and is in Taiwan, but i have lived in Taiwan for one year previously with a student visa since i had won a scholarship of a period of one year to study in Taiwan and after i returned to Taiwan to stay with my boyfriend but since we are not married i am on tourist visa which is only worth 90 days. 

 

You would need to find out if you would be allowed to work, freelancing, (because you would be still working under Upwork) with the visa you have now or how you can obtain a visa (if that's even possible) that would allow you to work.

 

I know Italian, English and Chinese and in Italy, their products could not sell well, while in Taiwan, we could make huge profits. The problem is, he said, you can sell using email, phone or face to face and you get a base salary based on how much you sell, a commission of 10% over the sum of money of the products you sell, and a bonus based on how many products you sell.

 

Base salary based on how much you sell, 10% commission over the sum of money of products sold, and a bonus based on how many products you sell. ---Sounds SO confusing to me. How would that work out here on Upwork - Hourly job with manual hours (not payment protected) ?Fixed rate with bonus? 

 

He was very slow in replying, and i asked him many times for a contract, explaining that to work to sell his products in Taiwan i need a work visa. He reminded me that the contract is over Upwork, and i know as well since i also am a client that if you post a job over Upwork but do not pay over Upwork, over Upwork is not legal. So, i asked to split the payment into contract over Upwork and real paper contract. 

 

To split the payment between Upwork and a real paper contract (I'm assuming payment outside of Upwork ) will violate Upwork TOS and your account will be suspended - Then what?

 

I want to work in Taiwan since i have studied everything about Asia in my bachelor and i know Taiwan well since i have lived here for more than one year and a half.

But i also require a real paper contract also because i think account manager is an important position, but he said only country manager, which is the highest position has a real contract.

 

I wonder why a client would be reluctant to look over and sign a paper contract especially since visas and travel etc are involved. And if this client does sign it, what happens if there's a problem. You're in Taiwain, he's in another country. It becomes international law and may involve a lot of money to sort out any type of contract violation. 

 

But how i am supposed to become a country manager (sell 400000 of his products) without a legal real contract and how i am supposed to do with the visa of Taiwan?

 

You need to ask yourself if you really want to get involved with commissions, bonuses, payment, visas, selling of products in other countries and working with a client who takes weeks to respond to your questions. It may turn out to be a fantastic experience or it may turn out to be a nightmare. As much as we give advice here, it basically comes down to - what's right for YOU. 

 

Hope to hear pieces of advice from you, thank you. 

 

(also, if i need to do a real paper contract, i should be listed as a worker in Italy, Taiwan or Sweden, where he is from? Really do not know anything about it)

 

All those questions should be taken up with a immigration lawyer or a lawyer versed in international freelancing if you decide to go that route. 


 

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