Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

Inactive Clients - post project and forgets about it

Highlighted
Moderator
Vladimir G Moderator Member Since: Oct 31, 2014
21 of 30

Hi David,

 

I checked the link Bojan included in his comment and it does redirect me to the correct article - https://www.upwork.com/blog/2019/05/spot-great-job-post-upwork/.

 

I'll copy the message you're looking for and update this post in a bit.

 

Highlighted
Community Guru
Jamie F Member Since: Mar 7, 2010
22 of 30

It doesn't send me to the right place. 

Highlighted
Ace Contributor
David M Member Since: Jul 12, 2015
Highlighted
Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
24 of 30

Hi David,

 

I understand your concern with using Connects to send proposals to jobs that don't end up hiring. Submitting a proposal has a financial cost, just like the other expenses you incur as a freelancer running your own business. We continue to encourage the client to hire or close the job, but ask that you consider the cost of Connects as part of your business expenses. That said, we do plan to continue testing different Connects options moving forward. We may not be able to share details about a test and its outcome though. There is always the concern that sharing too much will affect a user’s natural response to testing and invalidate their feedback. If any change we test becomes a permanent feature, we'll make sure to announce that. 

 

We also appreciate your feedback about informing clients about connects. We have not proactively reached out to clients to let them know about this change, but this information is in various locations on our site and Upwork Support is available to answer any questions.

 

Finally, I'm sorry you weren't able to access the link Bojan shared and other links in the Hiring Headquarters. We're in the process of updating some of those pages and that's why they may not be redirecting correctly for some users. Meanwhile, Bojan edited his post to remove the link for now.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Highlighted
Ace Contributor
David M Member Since: Jul 12, 2015
25 of 30

Valeria K wrote:

Hi David,

 

I understand your concern with using Connects to send proposals to jobs that don't end up hiring. Submitting a proposal has a financial cost, just like the other expenses you incur as a freelancer running your own business. We continue to encourage the client to hire or close the job, but ask that you consider the cost of Connects as part of your business expenses. That said, we do plan to continue testing different Connects options moving forward. We may not be able to share details about a test and its outcome though. There is always the concern that sharing too much will affect a user’s natural response to testing and invalidate their feedback. If any change we test becomes a permanent feature, we'll make sure to announce that. 

 

We also appreciate your feedback about informing clients about connects. We have not proactively reached out to clients to let them know about this change, but this information is in various locations on our site and Upwork Support is available to answer any questions.

 

Finally, I'm sorry you weren't able to access the link Bojan shared and other links in the Hiring Headquarters. We're in the process of updating some of those pages and that's why they may not be redirecting correctly for some users. Meanwhile, Bojan edited his post to remove the link for now.


Thank you Valeria.

 

As for the missing links, please post an announcement for all to see that you're in the process of updating pages, and inform your support staff not to quote these links until the issue is resolved.

 

Can I ask why you have NEVER reached out to clients to explain the connects system?

Saying you don't proactively reach out to them is admitting that you prefer to keep them uninformed.

Is it our duty as freelancers to explain this to the clients on your behalf?

You say the information is available in various locations, I've found one:

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062898-Use-Connects

 

This is the part I think doesn't make logical sense:

 

Returned Connects

Connects may be returned under the following circumstances:

  • If a project is canceled by the client without making a hire, the Connects used on that proposal will be returned to you for reuse. This does not apply to expired job posts. Why not?
  • If a job post has been removed by Upwork for a Terms of Service violation, the Connects used on that proposal will be returned for you to reuse

Note: Withdrawing your proposal will not return your Connects.

 

 

Why doesn't it apply to expired job posts?

Please give me one valid reason.

Connects were introduced to stop spamming, but if the client ignores his own job posting for 30 days, it is only common decency to return those connects used in vain.

Clients post jobs for free, freelancers pay to bid on them.

Many clients use their job posting simply to get a feel for the current market and then hire off platform or with a competitor.

I know you send reminders to the clients to hire, but how about sending them a polite notice a week before their job post expires and informing them that the 20-50 or sometimes 50+ applicants who took the time to craft an application would like at least to get their connects returned and if they close the job, then that will happen?

You say you continue to encourage the client to hire or close the job, but I'd like to see the messaging where you let them know this.  I've only heard about encouragement to hire, on a daily basis, but specifically the 'close the job' part and the repercussions thereof, could you share that messaging with the community, if it even exists?  I don't believe this is something that needs to be hidden as it's hardly a trade secret or something that is open to abuse, it's simply being open about communication.

If a client has no idea that the failure to respond or close a job has financial repercussions to all those who applied, what is their incentive to care?  If they knew, I feel it would change things significantly.

I'm 100% okay with the financial cost expense argument of the connect system, however there is no logical reason why Upwork should profit from not actually achieving the desired outcome, which is to connect clients with freelancers.  If the client is absent repeatedly you need to do something about it.

If you're simply banking the money AND not doing anything about those non-hiring clients, it leaves a bitter taste.

Please surprise us all by getting management to communicate this openly and honestly.

So again, what messages (exact wording please) are communicated to the client and at what frequency with specific regards to the closing/cancelling of the job post if they do not intend to hire?

Failure to provide this information is as good as admitting that you are not actually communicating this to the client ever.

What would cause a client to even ask you about connects or search the site for what a connect is when they're completely left out of the loop?

Please share this further up the chain as I'm sure the majority of freelancers feel the same way and the sooner a solution is found the better.

 

 

Highlighted
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
26 of 30

Frankly Upwork should just stop refunding connects for any reason, so people stop getting confused.

 

If you send a letter and the recipient doesn't reply, you don't get your stamp back either.

Highlighted
Ace Contributor
David M Member Since: Jul 12, 2015
27 of 30

Vladimir G wrote:

Hi David,

 

I checked the link Bojan included in his comment and it does redirect me to the correct article - https://www.upwork.com/blog/2019/05/spot-great-job-post-upwork/.

 

I'll copy the message you're looking for and update this post in a bit.

 


Still waiting for the update...

Perhaps let the team know most of the links on the blog don't work and hence get redirected to hiring pages?

Also if your staff are going to use blog post links as solutions to community posts, it's kind of neccessary that those links actually work for most people.

This isn't the first time I've been given a link that goes somewhere completely different.

Perhaps they can PDF print the relevant info and attach it so all users can benefit.

Highlighted
Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
28 of 30

Try using Google to search for the article titles by name. Place the whole title in quotation marks. If that doesn't work, you can use the Wayback machine to try to find them. 

Highlighted
Ace Contributor
David M Member Since: Jul 12, 2015
29 of 30

Tonya P wrote:

Try using Google to search for the article titles by name. Place the whole title in quotation marks. If that doesn't work, you can use the Wayback machine to try to find them. 


Google results attached

 

Clicking on that link does exactly the same thing, takes me to:

https://www.upwork.com/hire/business-proposal-writers/

 

Upwork has moved documents and so when a browser can't find them it redirects to something else.

I've had this problem for months, it's not new, nor do I believe it will be fixed any time soon - they're too busy matching Paypal email addresses and plagiarising job titles...

 

Wayback has 82 snapshots, this is one of them on June 10, 2009:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190610203037/https://www.upwork.com/blog/2019/05/spot-great-job-post-u...

Highlighted
Ace Contributor
David M Member Since: Jul 12, 2015
30 of 30

I just found this:

https://www.udemy.com/course/how-to-spot-great-job-post-on-upwork-the-ultimate-guide/#instructor-1

 

It's a guy who has blatantly plagiarised this blog article

https://www.upwork.com/blog/2019/05/spot-great-job-post-upwork/

aka

https://web.archive.org/web/20190610203037/https://www.upwork.com/blog/2019/05/spot-great-job-post-u...

in case the 1st link fails

 

on Upwork and is actually selling it!

 

Maybe you want to tell the author you hired to file a copyright infringement here:

https://copyright.udemy.com/hc/en-us/requests/new?

 

I'm guessing the thief is also a FL on Upwork...

TOP KUDOED MEMBERS