Invitation to Interview SCAM

[64c26f29]

Twice now I have been invited to interview for a job that turned out to be a scam. The clients violated TOS. Has anyone else been invited by UPWORK to apply for a job that turned out to be fraudulent? This is a very serious violation of our trust. I assume when Upwork connects me to a potential client, they have been properly vetted. 

[prestonhunter]

re: "Has anyone else been invited by UPWORK to apply for a job that turned out to be fraudulent?"

Yes.

re: "This is a very serious violation of our trust."

I agree.

re: "I assume when Upwork connects me to a potential client, they have been properly vetted."

Your assumption about this was incorrect.

Your assumption was logical.

It makes sense.

I wish that it was the case. I wish that if Upwork invited freelances to apply for a job, that it meant the job was properly vetted.

But it's not true. Such jobs are not vetted.

[sofia2008]

Hi Thomas, you can see more details on the Relationship with Upwork in Section 2.1 of the User agreement here Upwork Legal Center (1st and 3rd paragraph)

[renata101]

Hi Thomas,

It looks like you've done a lot of work on Upwork. I have too, so I'm not sure how it's escaped your notice that clients have never been vetted on this platform. I would really love it if they were because it would save me a lot of time and worry, but that's simply never been the reality.  I'm not defending this, but I do know for a fact that no client on this platform is or has ever been vetted by Upwork. Some have been removed for bad behavior, but that's not the same thing.

[yitwail]

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Renata S wrote:

Hi Thomas,

It looks like you've done a lot of work on Upwork. I have too, so I'm not sure how it's escaped your notice that clients have never been vetted on this platform.

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Out of curiosity, are Enterprise clients an exception?

[renata101]

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John K wrote:

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Renata S wrote:

Hi Thomas,

It looks like you've done a lot of work on Upwork. I have too, so I'm not sure how it's escaped your notice that clients have never been vetted on this platform.

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Out of curiosity, are Enterprise clients an exception?

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Good question. I guess I usually run under the assumption that anyone who's willing to pay for an Enterprise account must either work for a legitimate business or own one.

[feed_my_eyes]

I believe that Enterprise clients have a specific person at Upwork who's assigned as their liaison; at least, in my experience, when I've been invited to Enterprise jobs, it's always the same name shown as the Upwork contact. I still get the occasional invitation that doesn't fit my skills, but overall, the matches are better than the ones from Talent Specialists. (Although, I must say that my recent experiences with TSes have also resulted in some excellent matches - it's greatly improved in the past year or so.)

[martina_plaschka]

I have received tons of invitations from scammers. They should be able to tell that I'm not a naive newbie, but no. 

It was bad a few months ago, 6-7 invites daily, but has stopped now thankfully. 

[renata101]

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Thomas C wrote:

Twice now I have been invited to interview for a job that turned out to be a scam. The clients violated TOS. Has anyone else been invited by UPWORK to apply for a job that turned out to be fraudulent? This is a very serious violation of our trust. I assume when Upwork connects me to a potential client, they have been properly vetted. 

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Do you mean that you've been invited by a talent specialist? Or did you just receive the invite as a message on the message system?

[64c26f29]

Talent Specialist. So what do they do? Just blindly match freelancer and jobs without taking a look at the client or freelancer first? 

[renata101]

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Thomas C wrote:

Talent Specialist. So what do they do? Just blindly match freelancer and jobs without taking a look at the client or freelancer first? 

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Upwork has an interesting track record with approaches that could conceivably be a good idea but are very poorly implemented. I've always thought the name was a bad choice because it instantly overpromises the level of service the "talent specialists" actually provide. I have never had a regular talent specialist send me something that was even came with in range of what I do, and my job description is pretty straightforward.

I also wonder if there's an issue with the search feature that makes it harder for clients to find appropriate matches on their own.

I've had better results with the people who handle Enterprise clients, but even at this level, the service they provide often leaves a lot to be desired.

[feed_my_eyes]

Not "blindly", but they probably just glance at the client's requirements, do a search for the required skill, and invite whoever comes up as a match. But for the life of me, I don't understand why TSes seemingly can't spot obvious violations - like contact information in a job post - and be given the authority to remove these jobs (instead of inviting freelancers to bid on them!).

[motoyen]

The "talent specialist" on Upwork are useless. They are just matching keywords in the job description with keywords in your profile. I'd be surprised if it was even a real person who's doing the matching. 

[pgiambalvo]

"I assume when Upwork connects me to a potential client, they have been properly vetted."

No, they have not been vetted by Upwork. Never assume they have because they never are.

[the-right-writer]

Yes, I have received multiple invitations from Upwork that were scams.

It is a serious violation of our trust.

Upwork does nothing to verify that the client is legitimate. Never, ever, assume.

[64c26f29]

I am really surprised that so many think this is my issue and not an issue of the platform. If a "talent specialist" says, "Hey we think you'd be a good fit for this job, please interview for free," they have zero culpability when it comes to the validity of the clients they put me in touch with? I don't assume the jobs will work out, but I don't think it's absurd to assume the clients are who they say they are. They validated me, why not them?  

[renata101]

Hi Thomas,

I didn't understand that the issue was with a talent specialist approaching you for a scam job. That's of a different order completely.  In that case, I would expect some screening (or that the agent would at least read the job post). However, as far as I'm aware, that's a service that's open to any client. I don't think clients are charged for it.

[feed_my_eyes]

Actually, Upwork doesn't verify new freelancers, either - it would cost too much money. They only go through the verification process if you've won at least one job, and even then, it's just to check whether the name matches the face - they don't check whether anything that you say in your profile is true or not. Anyone can sign up as either a client or a freelancer and make whatever claims they like, so both sides need to be on their toes. (Clients regularly get scammed, too.)

Think of this in the same way that you'd approach any other type of work application. If a newspaper were to run a classified ad, all they do is check it for profanity or other obvious violations; they don't do a background check on the advertisers or verify whether the job is legitimate. If you were to apply to a classified ad and it turned out to be a scam, you'd be able to inform the newspaper and they'd take action against the client, but they wouldn't assume any responsibility for you getting scammed. It's the same here. All Upwork does is allow clients and freelancers to connect; the rest is up to you.

[5e6175a5]

Dear Thomas, Sorry to hear about your experience with Upwork and take it from one who now knows how Upwork handles these types of issues -- by good old-fashioned victim blaming! It's apparently OUR fault that if a client insists we operate 'outside of the T.O.S.' that we are to blame for being scammed. Rather than Upwork doing whatever they can to protect job seekers from criminal activity. While I agree that when freelancers take the step to work outside of the TOS, there's often little alternative to work within that framework when a client insists on taking matters into their own hands (via online chats using Skype and other means). Or, freelancers have to make the tough call to turn down an opportunity for work, which is WHY we subject ourselves to this level of risk in the first place. While there's responsibility on both parties (freelancers and Upwork)  the greater legal and ethical responsibility clearly lies in the hands of the party with the MOST power in the relationship: Upwork! I hope you can find a way to build a relationship of trust and profitability within the narrow framework of online job-seeking whether through Upwork or other online sources, but just know that you'll invariably be blamed for their inability or unwillingness to do anything to make these online workplaces safer and better for everyone. When they circle the wagons (and they do!) just know you won't be on the inside. Good luck to you! Karen Kelly

[renata101]

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Karen K wrote:

Dear Thomas, Sorry to hear about your experience with Upwork and take it from one who now knows how Upwork handles these types of issues -- by good old-fashioned victim blaming! It's apparently OUR fault that if a client insists we operate 'outside of the T.O.S.' that we are to blame for being scammed. Rather than Upwork doing whatever they can to protect job seekers from criminal activity. While I agree that when freelancers take the step to work outside of the TOS, there's often little alternative to work within that framework when a client insists on taking matters into their own hands (via online chats using Skype and other means).

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Hi Karen,

Yes, there is an alternative: don't engage with those clients. I've never had a legitimate client refuse to use the platform messaging system to discuss a project. Ever. In fact, I take their willingness to work with those types of limitations as a really good sign. It means they're reasonable people. I have the personal power to say no to people who can't work within reasonable parameters, and I'm able to use it.

I wouldn't want to work with clients who "insist" I deviate from reasonable protocols. If you're that desperate to get a job, any job, freelancing might not be a great path for you at this time because you may not have enough experience to consistently land enough contracts to support yourself if that's what you're here to try to do. That's not a judgement, it's an observation about reality. Clients want to hire people who have experience doing the tasks they need help with. If you need to support yourself and you don't have a lot of experience, you might consider pursuing freelancing as a source of supplimental income rather than something you depend on to support yourself.

I find it odd that the TOS is such an issue for you. Personally, I recognize that using the platform to discuss jobs before I have a contract in place benefits me as a freelancer. It means that everything is recorded on the platform, and if there's an issue later, I have evidence of what was discussed. As someone who's been freelancing for a while, I recognize the value in that. While I understand Upwork's self-interest in not wanting me to take work off the platform is the main motivation for that rule, I also understand that they need to be paid for the service they provide. I value my freelancer account because it allows me to connect with clients I could never reach in any other way. So while the rule to keep initial client discussions on the platform benefits Upwork by ensuring that I can't take business off the platform, it also benefits me.

[raina5]

Upwork connects people looking for work and people who need work done. Nobody can force me to do something I don't want to do, i.e. communicating off the site (which I usually end up doing for convenience and is not a problem in itself) or accepting alternate payment methods (which is against TOS)....how do people just "get scammed"? It's mystifying for me. I would not have the client roster I have been able to build up without Upwork. Not even close. But you have to be smart about it, the internet is the wild west.