Invoice, paying taxes, income declaration, va...

olganigay · ‎06-22-2019

Hello!

I'm new on upwork, but I'm freelancer in France for 1,5 year. I have Micro-entrepreneur (old auto-entrepreneur), profession liberal status. I would like to work on this plateform and I see a lot of opportunities, but I would like to understand all the administrative issues before to take the first project.

1. By the law in France micro-entrepreneur should indicate some indispensable informations about him self, here are some that I'm not sure you add on invoices:

! SIRET number (the unique company's number)

! « TVA non applicable, art. 293 B du CGI » - means that we don't have TVA number and we can't charge it

! Identification code of activity, mine is APE 7410Z

! Penalities if the invoice is not payed on time,+ 40euros ----- (this is indispensable to mention, otherwise micro-entrepreneur can have penalities without mentionning this)

! And about client:

! SIRET number (the unique company's number) , adresse

MY QUESTION: Do you think this information is possible or should be added on the contracts and invoices that I will possibly have via UPWORK?

2. Another question is about numbering invoices, as it shoud be sequential, how can I add my number on your invoices? Can you actually show examples of the invoices and contract or quatation?

3. Declaration of income. What should I declare? The amount that I receive on my bank account? If so, it will be different from the amount indicated on the invoices that client receive.

As a micro-entrepreneur in France I can't deduct any professional expenses, I think your fees is a part of this. So in case of tax verifications I should justify every income with it's invoice. So should I declare the total amount that client pays? Including your fees + your VAT? There are also fees when you transfer money from Upwork to the bank account..So where should I enregistrate it?

4. I never worked with VAT, because I'm dispensed of it in France. But if I work with foreign clients do I have to have TVA intracommunautaire? Do I have to charge it or just mention it? I also saw that the client should have it too, is it correct? Should I mention it with all clients or only those who are from EU?

5. Does the fact that Upwork charges me VAT influences on my accounting? Should I enregister it somewhere or not?

Thanks a lot for reading this and I hope to have clear answers! Please use simple explanations, that will be easier to understand in english

r_satta · ‎06-22-2019

Olga N wrote:
Hello!

I'm new on upwork, but I'm freelancer in France for 1,5 year. I have Micro-entrepreneur (old auto-entrepreneur), profession liberal status. I would like to work on this plateform and I see a lot of opportunities, but I would like to understand all the administrative issues before to take the first project.

1. By the law in France micro-entrepreneur should indicate some indispensable informations about him self, here are some that I'm not sure you add on invoices:
! SIRET number (the unique company's number)
! « TVA non applicable, art. 293 B du CGI » - means that we don't have TVA number and we can't charge it
! Identification code of activity, mine is APE 7410Z
! Penalities if the invoice is not payed on time,+ 40euros ----- (this is indispensable to mention, otherwise micro-entrepreneur can have penalities without mentionning this)
! And about client:
! SIRET number (the unique company's number) , adresse

MY QUESTION: Do you think this information is possible or should be added on the contracts and invoices that I will possibly have via UPWORK?

2. Another question is about numbering invoices, as it shoud be sequential, how can I add my number on your invoices? Can you actually show examples of the invoices and contract or quatation?

3. Declaration of income. What should I declare? The amount that I receive on my bank account? If so, it will be different from the amount indicated on the invoices that client receive.
As a micro-entrepreneur in France I can't deduct any professional expenses, I think your fees is a part of this. So in case of tax verifications I should justify every income with it's invoice. So should I declare the total amount that client pays? Including your fees + your VAT? There are also fees when you transfer money from Upwork to the bank account..So where should I enregistrate it?

4. I never worked with VAT, because I'm dispensed of it in France. But if I work with foreign clients do I have to have TVA intracommunautaire? Do I have to charge it or just mention it? I also saw that the client should have it too, is it correct? Should I mention it with all clients or only those who are from EU?

5. Does the fact that Upwork charges me VAT influences on my accounting? Should I enregister it somewhere or not?

Thanks a lot for reading this and I hope to have clear answers! Please use simple explanations, that will be easier to understand in english

This is almost the same problem we have in Italy. I cannot present Upwork invoices when I'm going to pay taxes for some fundamental reasons:

- They are only in English
- They use USD and not EUR
- The problem with the subsequent number still persists, I need to numerate my invoice following my own numeration, but Upwork uses his own.
- I need to add some phrases like "Operazione effettuata ai sensi dell'articolo 1, commi dal 54 a 89, etc."

- Invoices higher than 77,87€ should have a 2€ tax stamp

The problem is really easy to solve since I should be the one making my own invoices in double language where it is needed. But I can't make another invoice in Italian since Upwork uses automatic invoices and I cannot modify them.
As of now, Upwork invoices are not valid at all in Italy. I'm still trying to find a solution with my accountant, but still Upwork has to solve this problem.

olganigay · ‎06-23-2019

I hope we can get the answer soon from Upwork, because this is the only thing that stops me from working on the platform!

JoanneP · ‎06-22-2019

Hi Olga,

For you to be guided accordingly, it is best to consult with a tax advisor in your area. Upwork charges VAT to freelancers and agencies in certain countries unless specific exemption requirements are met. Upwork is required to collect this tax and pay it to the appropriate government agency. You may want to check out this help article for more information. Thank you!

~ Joanne

olganigay · ‎06-23-2019

Hello Joanne,

Thank you for your return about VAT but I still have all other questions unanswered... Could you please answer it one by one as clear as possible? As soon as I get answers from you I will also discuss about it with an auditor. But I really need your reply. I would love to start working on the platform as soon as I find the solution for all administratif things. And also could you please send me the example of papers that Upwork supply once freelancer and client accept to work : contract, proforma invoice, invoice and if there some other papers.

Thank you!

Looking forward to reading you

JoanneP · ‎06-23-2019

Hi Olga,

It is best to verify what you needed to comply regarding paying your taxes and declaring your income with your local tax advisor. Please refer to the help article I shared earlier and also check this one out to view where you can print your invoices. Thank you!

~ Joanne

olganigay · ‎06-25-2019

Hello Joanne,

Thank you for your reply. As I mentionned before I didn't work on this platform before, because I want to figure out all the taxes and declaring issues first, so I don't have any invoices made here. Could you please send me the one as an example of the invoices that UPWORK does? And also the proforma invoice or contract or smth that client and freelancer accept before starting a project. I need to show this to my accounter.

Best regards,

Olga

b0c98bdf · ‎06-01-2020

Hi Olga,

Have you found any answer to your questions?

I'm also trying to figure out how to comply with invoicing regulations in France using Upwork's invoicing system.

I don't think it is currently possible unless you issue your own invoices and send them to final clients by email.

Best Regards,

Ingrid

julienduvart · ‎07-22-2021

Hello there,

Did someone find a solution/answer to all those questions ?

This is my problem also, I get my paid on Upwork but I don't know what to do, what to declare, what invoice I have to edit/send to the client ...

It's very messy, I'll try to find deeper in this forum and on other forum, but for now I'm stuck.

Please, any French/European freelancer that meet those problems, can share what they declare to their tax department.

Here is the path the client's money go through :

Client's money => Upwork -20% => Upwork VAT => Freelancer Upwork wallet => Conversion $ to € + additional fees (from Upwork and bank organization) => Freelancer bank account

In France, for "autoentrepeneur", I don't know if I should declare the price that client paid me or the Freelancer Upwork wallet only ? I know that the conversion $ to € should not impact the total sales figures. But in my opinion, we should declare what the client paid us since we don't make an invoice to Upwork Global Inc. but directly to the client. Upwork fees has to be counted as a freelancer own spending

Also the Upwork VAT is ridiculous for not indebted freelancer (should be a big popup saying that before getting paid by client, don't forget to ask you VAT number to our tax administration ... Because yes, once the VAT is applied, Upwork will not refund you even if you get the VAT number in the same month)

If any worker for Upwork know or is French, welcome to help !

feed_my_eyes · ‎07-22-2021

Julien Z wrote:
Hello there,

Did someone find a solution/answer to all those questions ?
This is my problem also, I get my paid on Upwork but I don't know what to do, what to declare, what invoice I have to edit/send to the client ...

You should hire an accountant. It's not possible for somebody to just write you instructions in a few paragraphs and then everything will be clear and easy for you; even if someone was willing to take the time, their circumstances won't be exactly the same as yours (they might not even be qualified to comment - a lot of people in the forum don't have a clue about how to do taxes - so there would be no guarantee that their advice is correct).

It takes me two full days each year to sort out my taxes, and that's after I took a course to learn how to do them. And even then, for my first few years in business, I hired an accountant who specialises in freelancers, just to be sure that I wasn't making any mistakes. I suggest you do the same.

In England, if we're VAT registered, we also need to charge VAT to our clients, and filling out the VAT returns to submit the money to the government is a giant pain. So if you only registered in order to avoid paying VAT on your Upwork fees, you might want to double-check whether this was a good idea. But again, an accountant could advise you better than I can.

julienduvart · ‎07-23-2021

Thank you for your response Christine. I don't think I will hire an accountant since this is not my main activity. It's only a seasonal job at full time then some occasional day during the rest of the years.

VAT doesn't seems to work the same in French compare to England. I can't charge my client and neither I can pretend to get a refund of TVA from my purchase because my turnover doesn't exceed a certain amount.
I am subject to VAT.

feed_my_eyes · ‎07-23-2021

Julien Z wrote:
Thank you for your response Christine. I don't think I will hire an accountant since this is not my main activity. It's only a seasonal job at full time then some occasional day during the rest of the years.

Okay, but again, you should find out for sure. In England, even if something is just a hobby, as soon as you make more than £1,000, it's taxable and you can face very high fines for not paying tax on this income.

olganigay · ‎07-22-2021

As far as I know you should declare the total amount announced to the client, what about VAT I couldn’t get the information. I’m working on another platform too and If I charged 100€ to a client and I receive 80€ I declare 100€.
I haven’t done any mission on up work cause at the end I feel like it’s too many charges, and it’s not profitable:(. On the invoice for the french administration as I was told, you can edit your normal invoice in french but add TVA intracommunautaire number and your client’s as well and then the amount in euro and then you can write see the attached file : facture éditée par upwork. that’s all I could get as the info but I’m not 100% sure. I never applied it in practice cause I found it too complicated and in the end I worked only with french clients.

julienduvart · ‎07-23-2021

Thank you Olga, yes I think I will turn to French clients (but now in holiday they are very few client on my domain, so I will keep on Upwork)

Since the invoice should match what will receive in case of an administration control, I think sadly we have to count the Upwork fees inside our turnover. Upwork is not the best at all for French "auto-entrepreneur" status freelancer.

And yes, if you declare what you charge to the client through a French platform, then it's the Upwork case

I can't found a single blog, article youtube video talking about that though, it's seem that none of them care about this issue or know this issue. Or maybe it's something obvious.

dcd3bc50 · ‎03-31-2024

Hello ! I know it been a while, but this is exactly my problem right now ! Did you guys find solutions ? What did you do in the end ?
Thanks max

Invoice, paying taxes, income declaration, vat