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benaissa-nabil
Community Member

Is Messages Enough To Validate A Contract?

Hello,

 

I want to clear out my doubts.

 

I accepted a translation project that I am working on now and where I will get paid until the 10th of June. When I went to the My Job section, I found that there is none (See Screenshot 1). 

 

I accpeted the client's project via Messages, I would like to know if this is enough to acknowledge that I have a contract with my client or does the client nstill eed to send me the contract and show under My Jobs section?

 

Thanks

 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
elyannie
Community Member

Hey Nabil, the client will need to send you an official offer still, it will look like a message but will say "Sent an offer" next to the clients name. You can then accept the offer (if you still choose to do so) and begin working.

 

 

View solution in original post

22 REPLIES 22
elyannie
Community Member

Hey Nabil, the client will need to send you an official offer still, it will look like a message but will say "Sent an offer" next to the clients name. You can then accept the offer (if you still choose to do so) and begin working.

 

 

Thanks Elyannie for your answer.

I just the client a message telling him to send me an official offer.

 

Also, my project is due tomorrow 1st May and I am almost done. The translation won't be submitted in a Word document but on a software (Lines translated are instantly sent, I am at 80%).

 

What would you recommend me to do in order to ensure that things are done right?

 

 

You can finish your translation and hope for the best. Next time don't start working if there is no contract. Funded milestones at the very least if you opt again for that system of translated lines instantly sent to the client.

I see.
Thanks for your clear answer.


Nabil B wrote:

Thanks Elyannie for your answer.

I just the client a message telling him to send me an official offer.

 

Also, my project is due tomorrow 1st May and I am almost done. The translation won't be submitted in a Word document but on a software (Lines translated are instantly sent, I am at 80%).

 

What would you recommend me to do in order to ensure that things are done right?

 


No, your project is not due tomorrow, because you haven't been hired. If there's no contract, then you have no job. And you say in your original message that the client is going to pay you on 10 June? How? He can't pay you through the platform if he hasn't officially hired you, and if you accept a payment outside of Upwork, that's a serious terms of service violation that can get your account permanently banned. 

 

I suggest that you stop working and read about how this website actually works. Best case scenario, your client is new, he made a mistake, and he will officially hire you and fund the escrow account. Worst case scenario, your client is deliberately trying to scam you, and he will take your work and run. If that happens, Upwork cannot help, and you will have worked for free.

 

https://www.upwork.com/i/how-it-works/freelancer/

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/categories/360001181014-Get-Paid

 

I thought that just Messages can make the project official. Then, I went under My Jobs and found none, it's when I started questioning this project.

 

Now I know more, I reached out to the client and asked for an official offer, which he did so. However, the amount put on Escrow is $5, the Est.Budget for this task is $153 (See screenshot).

 

On a side note, It's hard to believe that this can be a scam when you see that the client has more than 100K spent here and fancy feedbacks. 

 

Does anyone have the same issue with the same client?

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


Nabil B wrote:

I thought that just Messages can make the project official.


You need to stop using Upwork. You need to read all the help material available and learn how to use the platform. It is only once you really understand how it works that you should resume using it.

 

 

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Nabil B wrote:

Now I know more, I reached out to the client and asked for an official offer, which he did so. However, the amount put on Escrow is $5, the Est.Budget for this task is $153 (See screenshot).


Right, submit $ 5 worth of work, then ask for the next milestone to be funded and the money put in Escrow.

If they want $ 153 worth of work, there has to be $ 153 in Escrow.

 

It's not a scam as such as very sharp practice. I actually believe that they will pay mostly.

What they are doing is taking on work at a more realistic price and hire cheap Upwork freelancers to do it, and pocket the (considerable) difference.

 

Thanks Petra for your help, it was useful.

 

Yes, I asked them to put the whole amount in escrow then I will finish the task. Which they did.

Basically, when I asked the guy why are they doing so, he told me that they are going to get paid by their client until the 10th June.  Anyway, I clearly told him that I am not going to take on any upcoming work unless the Est.Budget is in escrow.

 

From this experience, I got that I am not going to starting working on a project until I get the offcial offer and the whole amount is in escrow.


Nabil B wrote:

Basically, when I asked the guy why are they doing so, he told me that they are going to get paid by their client until the 10th June.


That isn't your problem though, is it 😉

 

 


Nabil B wrote:

 

Basically, when I asked the guy why are they doing so, he told me that they are going to get paid by their client until the 10th June.  Anyway, I clearly told him that I am not going to take on any upcoming work unless the Est.Budget is in escrow.


It sounds like this has turned out okay for you, but I would never agree to an arrangement where "you don't get paid until we get paid". If somebody hires me, then they need to pay me (and pay on time); whatever arrangements they've made with THEIR client are not my problem.

 

Yes it did turn out ok. And I do agree with you on what you said.

The error that I made is I trusted them fully because of their fancy profile (+100k spent, 50 feedback). Also I was not fully aware of how the official offer works.

Anyway, it was a lesson for me.

Thanks for your support.


Nabil B wrote:

Thanks Elyannie for your answer.

I just the client a message telling him to send me an official offer.

 

Also, my project is due tomorrow 1st May and I am almost done. The translation won't be submitted in a Word document but on a software (Lines translated are instantly sent, I am at 80%).

 

What would you recommend me to do in order to ensure that things are done right?

 

 


 

 

You were 100% scammed of 80% of your work.

You can either stop working or have some fun by completing the remaining 20% in a more "original" way. This may prevent them from using the piece entirely.

 

 

petra_r
Community Member

Is that the client with extensive history and high amount of money spent, where one of the "extra questions" was whether you accept to do the work but not get a contract until June?

 

If so, I flagged that last week... It's essentially asking for free work.

Yes, it’s this one, with more than 100K spent, and with more than fifty feedbacks.
Was that a scam? How come they are a scam with over 100k spent?

Following what I read here, I’m going to stop working on this project.
AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Nabil, 

 

On Upwork, we always recommend for freelancers not to start working unless the client sent an offer to the freelancer, the freelancer accepted the offer, the contract is showing as an active contract on the freelancer's My Jobs page, and the client's payment method is verified. These are minimum requirements for a freelancer to be eligible for Payment Protection

I hope you have followed the advice given by our Community members. If you have further questions, please don't hesitate to reach out. 


~ Avery
Upwork
petra_r
Community Member


Avery O wrote:

 

On Upwork, we always recommend for freelancers not to start working unless the client sent an offer to the freelancer, the freelancer accepted the offer, the contract is showing as an active contract on the freelancer's My Jobs page


Then why are clients allowed to carry on doing this and posting jobs that clearly spell out that no contract will be created and nothing paid until June?

 

 

9b660019
Community Member

It's far more economical for Upwork to take a reactive stance to posts flagged by freelancers than to proactively filter or (even worse) manually review job postings prior to accepting them.

petra_r
Community Member


Adam A wrote:

It's far more economical for Upwork to take a reactive stance to posts flagged by freelancers than to proactively filter or (even worse) manually review job postings prior to accepting them.


In fairness to Upwork, Adam, they do generally react quickly to job posts I flag when there is a clearcut violation of the terms. Unfortunately, this case is not strictly speaking a clearcut violation.

 

Asking for the reviewing of every job post is unrealistic and I would not want to pay higher fees to facilitate such a thing.

9b660019
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Adam A wrote:

It's far more economical for Upwork to take a reactive stance to posts flagged by freelancers than to proactively filter or (even worse) manually review job postings prior to accepting them.


In fairness to Upwork, Adam, they do generally react quickly to job posts I flag when there is a clearcut violation of the terms. Unfortunately, this case is not strictly speaking a clearcut violation.

 

Asking for the reviewing of every job post is unrealistic and I would not want to pay higher fees to facilitate such a thing.


It wasn't intended as a criticism - merely an observation. We freelancers are using Upwork as a means to make money for ourselves. Similarly, as a business Upwork primarily exists to generate profits for its owners. At times, our economic interest and Upwork's will diverge - and since they control the platform, their interest has priority.

 

Yes, manually reviewing every posting would be unreasonably expensive and a cost that would inevitably be passed on to us. I was attempting to point out how impractical it was from a cost standpoint, and could have worded it more clearly to that effect.

 

I would like to see some sort of incentive that discourages clients from posting jobs and then abandoning them without hiring or even interviewing, but that is off-topic for this discussion.

AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Petra, 


Please know that I have already reported this to the team for their review. I will not be able to come back here on the actions the team will take on the client's account if there are any to comply with our privacy policy.


~ Avery
Upwork


Petra R wrote:


Then why are clients allowed to carry on doing this and posting jobs that clearly spell out that no contract will be created and nothing paid until June?



This is an excellent point.

I know that client.

I've seen their job posting several times, it's a very sharp practice.

It places a disproportionately high amount of risk on the freelancer.

I've always wondered why Upwork allows them disturb my feed in that manner.

I've flagged them many times, but nothing happens.

I can't believe a client expects a freelancer to burst his guts on their project while eating ramen noodles for a whole month+?

 

Deferred payments don't work on Upwork (Ok, you can defer it, but defer it while it's in Escrow).

I hate having to violate the client's privacy (without actually metioning their name and identifying details) in this manner. They have spent a lot of money here and deserve better than this bashing. Upwork also hates it too - see how quickly they will close this thread.

But if speaking out about sharp practices like this is the only way to have Upwork stop them doing this, do I have much of a choice?

 

I don't think it's so much as waiting for their customer to pay, as it is borrowing money (in the form of a service) from a freelancer and not paying interest on it.

Make no mistake, deferred payments happen a lot in most of the business world outside Upwork.

But it isn't recognised as an acceptable means to work on Upwork.

 

That client is taking advantage of vulnerable freelancers, and Upwork is facilitating their activity.

It is also unfair to the clients who take care to fund milestones in full before before freelancer starts work.

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