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RJ's avatar
RJ S Community Member

Is Upwork creating a "spec" site where freelancers are subject to the whim of the client for payment

I'm going to be starting a new topic in a moment, but I wanted to reply to this. There is a significant question about Upwork's support of freelancers. I just finished (a few weeks ago) a month-long project. I added 20,000 words, Yep, you got that right...20,000 words to a 14,000 word, very primitive manuscript. I do this kind of work a lot. It's not unsual for someone to want to bulk up their manuscript, but it is hard to do well. 

 

The client, from **edited for Community Guidelines** decided they would reject the manuscript. Now their job posting, and our agreement, was that they would allow me to use my own judgement regarding what the manuscript needed. With 25 years of experience, I know what a manuscript needs. Because they rejected the manuscript, we went to "arbitration."

 

For those of you who've not been through that process, you are required to make a payment of $275, and then post (on adr.org, if you are interested) various documents. In my case, the "arbitrator" (placing this in quotes since she was so inadequate) in her award decided that the client did Not have to pay me. She cited no legal prevailing authority, or any difficulty with the manuscript, which I had rewritten and added to. The arbitrator noted in her award to the client that she would not make me REPAY the intial payment (about $3,000 before Upwork's 20% deduction). Hoo hay! As I pointed out to her in my postings DURING the process, the client had no right to Request the return of the initial payment, since we were past the 30-day period. Upwork's rules do not allow for payments to be refunded after 30 days. Thus, it would...initially...appear that the "arbitrator" is being Solomon-like and cutting the baby in half. Oh, so fair, you might think? But no. As noted, the "arbitrator" VIOLATED Upwork's own rules by even considering the client's request for return of the full amount, and by citing it as part of her arbitration award. Further, the adr.org Requires that all parties be served, via email, all loaded documents. I pointed out to the "arbitrator that I had not been served via email the intital statement from the client, and the arbitrator also ignored that. It is my belief that Upwork forcing freelancers into arbitration, and forcing freelancers to incure additional costs and delayed release of payments...if they are "awarded" the payment from the client, violates the laws of the United States. When you do work, in the United States, you are paid for your work. Do any of us have a "will-work-on-spec" on our profiles? No. I would note that in my feedback on the job, I posted that I should have not worked with anyone in **edited for Community Guidelines**. However, I have a degree in the social sciences and tend to work with a wide-range of people, especially from other cultures. It's something I usually enjoy. Regardless, the POINT here is this: Are we working on spec or not? Should we be forced into "arbitration" or is it Upwork's responsibility to hold client's responsible for their payments when the work is done. Please note, I had an agreement with that client that they would pay me within 24-hours of providing them the work. I do this, specifically, because I do Not work on spec. I know how good I am and if I provide the work, I cannot get it back. This policy of mine prevents abuse, in almost all cases. Further, in 25 years, I have never had a client unhappy with my work or ask for any changes. Imagine that this happened with a client from **edited for Community Guidelines**. You figure.

 

In closing, are we working on spec here at Upwork, and don't know it? Do we have to PAY in order to be paid? Your thoughts, please.

62 REPLIES 62
Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member


RJ S wrote:

 And since you decided to insult my writing, when no one else ever has, I'm unsure why Upwork allows you to be in the community forum.


Because around here people aren't banned from the forum for criticising your writing.

Wendy's avatar
Wendy C Community Member

RJS, something I'm sure you're keenly aware of as an experienced 25 year writer -

 

Despite James Joyce's proclivity for long convoluted sentences, writers and more importantly, readers, value the use of periods and paragraph breaks.

RJ's avatar
RJ S Community Member

Yes, well, Wendy. If all I wrote was door hangers and emails then I suppose I'd only write as those criticizing me here do. Oh wait, I see that none of you have actually written a book. Gee, how about that. And it is odd how many are criticizing my writing when it's certainly served me well enough to have been a literary agent and written many books for my clients, who've taken them to enormous success. 

Petra's avatar
Petra R Community Member


RJ S wrote:

. Oh wait, I see that none of you have actually written a book.


I have.

So?

RJ's avatar
RJ S Community Member

Actually, Upwork's guidelines for the community specifically states that you cannot make personal attacks. Why don't you read them so you'll know what the rules are?

RJ's avatar
RJ S Community Member

Actually, that violates the Guidelines as i understand it. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Jennifer's avatar
Jennifer M Community Member

RJ, you're the only legit profile and thread on this forum right now, so in a weird way I appreciate your bants.

Tiffany's avatar
Tiffany S Community Member


RJ S wrote:

Do recall, you made a crack about my writing first. 


Actually, I didn't. I'm sorry that your ego is so fragile that you chose to make that interpretation and be so upset by it that you've now felt the need to make several posts about me and my writing in different places. That makes me very sad for you, and I sincerely hope that this is a result of having been knocked down by the unexpected result in arbitration and you are usually stronger and more stable.

What I actually did was point out the possibility (based on my extensive experience with legal proceedings) that your particular style of presentation wasn't well received in the legal arena. I have taken no position on your writing skills, nor on my own. It has always been my belief that one's writing skills speak for themselves.

RJ's avatar
RJ S Community Member

Actually you did criticize my writing first. I find it odd how much time a few of you have to be here in the forum. **edited for Community Guidelines**

RJ's avatar
RJ S Community Member

Again, addressing things like my ego is simply a **Edited for Community Guidelines** way of attacking me. I'm reporting you to Upwork for violating community guidelines.

Catherine's avatar
Catherine M Community Member

What does one's "assumed" political stance have to do with anything being said? I would be very interested in the logic behind that.

RJ's avatar
RJ S Community Member

Actually, if you read the community guidelines, we aren't allowed to post transcripts. 

 

And inherently, your statement is a blaming one. Why do you think there must have been something I did wrong? Maybe the arbitrator has a personal agenda of some sort? Perhaps **edited for Community Guidelines** who ...like someone else here said...believes we OWE other countries to reduce our rates so they can earn a living (even if that means we don't earn a living for our families).

Avery's avatar
Avery O Community Manager

To everyone,

Please be mindful of the Community Guidelines when posting and engaging with other users in the Community. This thread will be now be closed from further replies, and posts will be removed from this thread, or edited. 


~ Avery