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Is Upwork creating a "spec" site where freelancers are subject to the whim of the client for payment

colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
41 of 63

RJ S wrote:

Petra, I'm baffled that you are allowed to post given your harassing and virulent statements.

 

As to this:

"Minimum wage" in the USA does not apply to freelancing on a global platform. It applies to employment. Freelancing is not employment. Find someone who can patiently explain it to you.

 

Upwork is located in California and has to abide by US labor laws. They have to abide by US LAWS. As to being a "global" marketplace, let's look at where the money Upwork makes comes from...wanna guess that 80% is from those in the US (clients/freelancers)?


_______________________________

Upwork itself abides by the rules. It's an introductory site - like a dating agency. It cannot legislate how a freelancer - from all countries (this is after all a global marketplace) - runs his or her business. As far as I know, there is NO minimum wage for freelancers anywhere in the world . Freelancers choose their own rates. They are responsible for their own businesses. They are responsible for their own taxes -  and interestingly - are also responsible for the people they hire. Upwork is not a freelancer.

 

RJS (don't you have a name?) give it a rest. Upwork has serious legal advisors in place. However mad any of us get with its sometimes abitrary MO, this is not some cowboy outfit trying to score off naive freelancers. If you feel so strongly about this, then get some local legal advice, but you would be wasting your money. 

 

You had a bad experience - you clearly think you are cut above everyone on the forum - so prove it by moving on and getting over it.  

rjsha
Ace Contributor
RJ S Member Since: Jul 17, 2016
42 of 63

Actually you are wrong. As soon as Upwork places conditions on "freelancers," it has changed from an "introductory" site to a different entity. You might want to follow what is happening with Lyft and Uber, for instance.

 

As to "get over myself," gosh, I am just amazed at the Vile and Nasty statements in this "community" forum. I'm not sure what you mean by that **edited for Community Guidelines**

lysis10
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
43 of 63

RJ S wrote:

Hi, 

There aren't any transcripts. In arbitration, both sides post various documents to the adr.org site. The arbitrator can ask for other documents should they wish to. This arbitrator requested that I provide a "compare" document (which shows all the changes from the original document as highlighted text). I did this. I had added 20,000 words and had read 8 books (suggested by the client) and had a final bibliography of 24 books for the project. I decided to post this to Upwork's community, because I see again and again, that freelancers aren't paid properly but most often they have no recourse because the low amount of payment doesn't allow them to spend $275 on the arbitration fee to recover $150, for instance. My point throughout has been that Upwork should be fiercely supporting freelancers and their work. Further, I am seeing a massive number of jobs for a "book" to be written for $60 or $100, which can only mean a plagiarize-and-spin project. I believe all those jobs that are clearly, and thinly-disguised, jobs should be purged from Upwork. As well, any job posted on Upwork should adhere to minimum wage standards. I see numerous jobs for $4 an hour, ect. These jobs violate federal minimum wage standards in the US.


What I mean by "trascripts" is the email messages that go back and forth as both of you answer questions. You can see each others answers in the emails you receive. There is even a phase where the two of you can respond to the claims that you see from the other side.

bstojadinovic
Moderator
Bojan S Moderator Member Since: Mar 9, 2018
44 of 63

Hi All,

 

A few posts on this thread have been edited for Community GuidelinesWe encourage our Community members to be professional and respectful to one another when posting here. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and avoid making personal attacks.

 

Thank you.

~ Bojan
Upwork
rjsha
Ace Contributor
RJ S Member Since: Jul 17, 2016
45 of 63

Bojan, 

Petra, Tiffany, and Jennifer are posting vile statements about me in respones to my very lucid comments about a situation I feel is taking place on Upwork. Why aren't they banned from the community forum?

tlsanders
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
46 of 63

RJ S wrote:

As well, any job posted on Upwork should adhere to minimum wage standards. I see numerous jobs for $4 an hour, ect. These jobs violate federal minimum wage standards in the US.


They would if they were jobs. Of course, since we're all independent contractors and not employees, there is no federal minimum wage.

 

tlsanders
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
47 of 63

Jennifer M wrote:

It would be interesting to see the transcripts for this. I think arbitration favors the freelancer heavily. To lose the entire amount without the arbitrator giving the OP something (half, even) is interesting. There has to be something that triggered the arbitrator to force the freelancer to lose it all.


It seems possible to me that she lost it for herself with what she submitted. I have no idea what she wrote there, obviously, but the posts here have been long and jumbled with no paragraph breaks, a lot of philosophical posturing and repeated misstatements of Upwork's policies. It's certainly plausible that her point was simply lost in a tidal wave of words.

rjsha
Ace Contributor
RJ S Member Since: Jul 17, 2016
48 of 63

Tiffany**Edited for community guidelines**. I read your profile and someone with your writing skills, or lack thereof, shouldn't be commenting on mine. I'm an excellent writer and the posts I've written here are quite well-written. But, since you are an attorney, or have a law degree, you...like so many attorneys...seem to think you can see what you don't see. Again, the arbitrator gave no reason. And by the way, when was the last time you wrote 20,000 words in a month? And had spent half that time researching the project? Here's someone who is complaining about Upwork, as well. As you'll see, my point that most won't go to arbitration because it is too expensive given the modest payments on Upwork, generally, is on point: "There was confusion as to what was required for this project. I thought I was being hired to write/edit a 4-5 page company profile, but the client started expecting design work (I'm not a designer), designing complex diagrams and pictures and sourcing images for the logistics company's profile. He downplayed how much work it would be and then changed the project completely once I had agreed to the terms. With future clients, I hope KK is more clear upfront about what he needs, and I would definitely suggest that future freelancers charge hourly to avoid getting underpaid if the scope of the project takes a left turn."

tlsanders
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
49 of 63

RJ, I'm not going to debate writing skills with you. Everyone here can read. But, I will answer one question for you: I can't recall the last month in which I wrote as little as 20,000 words. If forced to guess, I would say it was about five years ago. 

rjsha
Ace Contributor
RJ S Member Since: Jul 17, 2016
50 of 63

ha ha. Yeah, right. Tiffany, since you seem to have endless amounts of time to spend in the community section, I'm assuming that you are just so great at writing. Do recall, you made a crack about my writing first. And by the way, I've actually worked in professional publishing for 25 years. And since you decided to insult my writing, when no one else ever has, I'm unsure why Upwork allows you to be in the community forum.

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