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ploychat1
Community Member

Is Upwork fees 20% TOO high?

Anyone think that Upwork fees 20% TOO high?

 

I've just backed to find a job on Upwork and I'm shocked that Upwork fees have increased to 20%! I don't know why, but 2 years ago was just 8-10% (I'm not sure). I think 20% is too high and it is unfair for freelancers because you work same as usual but you need to pay for Upwork fees more than doubled. I think Upwork should remain that the income is from freelancers, they would find another website in one day if their deserved earnings are not worthy as they worked. 

 

 

 

116 REPLIES 116


Juan V wrote:

Either way, the point everyone is missing is that the sliding scale stops at 5%. Forever. Why doesn't it become zero or 1% at some point?

So even if you keep a customer for a long time doing a significant number of hours per month, you are always leaving 5% (in the best case) to Upwork, indefinitely.

That's in my opinion where the real issue is: they take a significant cut of your money. 5% of a full month means that a whole day is worked for Upwork only, FOREVER.


That 5% is paying Upwork for their services: payment protection, escrow handling, hour tracking, getting you paid on time, etc. And no, you're not forced to pay that forever. After two years from when you connected with the client on here, you can start billing them directly if you choose.

Wes makes an excellent point.

 

Think about this:

As Wes points out, any freelancer can stop using Upwork with a client after two years.

But I don't.

And based on what I have read from other Forum regulars, I think most of us don't.

Most of us here voluntarily continue to work with clients ON UPWORK after two years, because the benefit of doing so is worth more than the relatively small fee.

Getting payment in time? What? Are you seriously now for real? Payments are released after 3 days minimal and they go even 5 or 6 days. And then 2 more days to process to banks.


Eni M wrote:
Getting payment in time? What? Are you seriously now for real? Payments are released after 3 days minimal and they go even 5 or 6 days. And then 2 more days to process to banks.

Yes. Getting paid on time. That is, the timeframe that is agreed to when you enter into a contract with a client. And, yes, you do agree to such a timeframe by entering into such a contract in the first place.

And a week or so is nothing. It's not uncommon for clients off-Upwork to want a month. Maybe more. And you're still left having to chase them up. 

Im really sorry for every freelancer because they know the struggle and the **Edited for Community Guidelines** here! I know you’re just a worker and you can’t do anything but paying 20% fees and most of the things are not that stable this is not even logically! So we even pay that much percentage and then we take the left money after days… Where’s the logic here and the improvements of this platform? Don’t make freelancers leave with this kind of rules please! Improve things as we pay the fees! Just from me upwork took at least 1k fees. Imagine. Imagine?!

Try doing this:

Tell Upwork you no longer want to pay their fees or receive their services.

Upwork will say: Okay, that's fine.

 

Compare that to this:

Tell your national government you no longer want to pay taxes or receive their services. What will they say?

Using Upwork is voluntary. There are other freelance work platforms you may use.

 

Just the same as if you think the steak is too expensive at Dan's Steak House. You may choose to go to Sizzler. Or Outback. Or Burger King. Or buy an inexpensive cut at the grocery store and have your maid cook it at home. Or cook it yourself. Or eat a salad instead.

 

There are dozens of alternative freelancer work platforms plus many ways to find work outside of those platforms.

Of course I pay government taxes! Because they give me free medical service, cleaning of my outside area, taking care of outside area, my safety services , life insurance and hundreds more! What Upwork gives me of the fees I pay? Oh. Right? No more words please


Eni M wrote:
 What Upwork gives me of the fees I pay? 

Access to their job market - which is built largely from marketing campaigns.

Being able to apply jobs, and even getting invites to jobs you didn't apply for.

Access to the other facilities like escrow and time tracking.

The ability to develop a profile that can be a regular source of income for years to come. 

But what have the Romans ever done for us, eh? 

 


Jamie F wrote:

Eni M wrote:
 What Upwork gives me of the fees I pay? 

Access to their job market - which is built largely from marketing campaigns.

Being able to apply jobs, and even getting invites to jobs you didn't apply for.

Access to the other facilities like escrow and time tracking.

The ability to develop a profile that can be a regular source of income for years to come. 

But what have the Romans ever done for us, eh? 

 



Lol but why can't I have all that for free? And they should throw in some larks' tongues and otters' noses while they're at it.

re: "Of course I pay government taxes! Because they give me free medical service, cleaning of my outside area, taking care of outside area, my safety services , life insurance and hundreds more! What Upwork gives me of the fees I pay? Oh. Right?"

 

The point is:

You don't have a choice.

 

What if your government uses YOUR tax money to purchase a $5000 statue of Chuck Norris for each home in Belize?

Do you agree with that?

You don't have a choice.

You need to pay those taxes whether you agree to receive that "service" or not.

 

With Upwork, it is your choice.


Eni M wrote:
Getting payment in time? What? Are you seriously now for real? Payments are released after 3 days minimal and they go even 5 or 6 days. And then 2 more days to process to banks.

Yes, and you know when you'll be paid.

 

Meanwhile, for off-platform clients, I sometimes chase invoices for months or deal with institutions whose Net-30 payment schedule means they'll cut a paper check on day 30 and maybe mail it out a week later.

 

5–10% is well worth it. Especially when that cost is at least partially passed on to clients.

 

But, as has been pointed out, you don't have to use the platform. There are others with lower fees (none that I know of that go to zero fee at any point or that allow you to take clients off platform after X amount of time), and you always have the option of searching for and handling clients directly.

 

Good luck.

92ca94e6
Community Member

I have done over 100k business with Upwork and now I am looking for a new platform or start my own. The only way to make these companies understand is to give them competition. In short the fees are ENTIRELY to high. On top of that they are double dipping! Fees from both the client and freelancer! Talk about greedy. Its more than just keeping the business alive. This is for the executives to have there 8 figure salaries.

I know mate! They say excuses then fees make you secure and blah blah blah… Paying that much fee and nothing at the end. You even take the left money after days like what?! This is madness…

It's not worth to pay 20% comission for security! 10% is appropriated I think. 20% is crazy, Upwork is greedy.


Ploychat T wrote:

It's not worth to pay 20% comission for security! 10% is appropriated I think. 20% is crazy, Upwork is greedy.


Upwork is LOSING money

dreedommk
Community Member

It feels like Upwork is not supporting new freelancers but stealing money from them. Like: my client paid me $150 and Upwork charged me $30 for being a mediator between me and my customer. and I got $120 for my hard work. Are you fricking kidding me? Is it even legal to be so unfair, ignorant and 100% self oriented while pretending to be someone who wants to be a good mediator?? I hope this business dissappears from the market Unless they stop being thiefs. (Pseudo business explanations about why stealing my money is OK from your side is not necessary) DO THE FAIR JOB DON'T BE A THIEF! 

Marika, you seem to have a lot of unresolved anger. That's not healthy. 

To calm down, have you done some calculations? How much money do you have to invest into your own website and advertising to find clients in the real world? How much time do you have to spend on client acquisition? If you find the results not in upwork's favor, by all means, stop using it!

Nobody here wants you to be so unhappy with the platform! Nobody is forcing you to use upwork, you know. If you don't, you pay zero fees! 


Marika K wrote:

Is it even legal to be so unfair, ignorant and 100% self oriented while pretending to be someone who wants to be a good mediator?? I hope this business dissappears from the market Unless they stop being thiefs. (Pseudo business explanations about why stealing my money is OK from your side is not necessary) DO THE FAIR JOB DON'T BE A THIEF! 


Wow, seriously? Do you work for free? Do you run around a supermarket screaming that they don't let you have your groceries for what they paid for them? Do you assume a multi-Million Dollar platform runs itself on water?


As a freelancer, you need to work your business expenses into your rates and prices. Fees are part of that-


It's also only 20% on the first $500 with a client, then it drops to 10% and then to 5% eventually.

I think you need to look up the meaning of the words 'thief' and 'stealing'.

37c889a8
Community Member

Yes, and I spent hundreds of thousands hiring and barely using them because of their greed.

tjmisny
Community Member

I think the 20% fee for the first $500 poses some very unfair conequences.

 

* It punishes new freelancers and urges them to take low paying jobs to build a reputation on the platform.  In taking these low paying jobs, the 20% fee makes it harder to be profitable.  I think this is unfair and unnecessarily brutal to new freelancers.

 

* Let's acknowledge that Upwork makes more money if a freelancer works 100 low paying projects versus 10 high paying projects (if the total amount is equal).  With this as the result, Upwork is NOT incentivized to link skilled freelancers with a smaller number of high quality/high paying clients.  Upwork makes more money when a freelancer has to scrap together dozens of low paying jobs, because every time they do, they have to clear the 20% hurdle.  

 

* As a result, if Upwork removed the 20% fee and made a straight 10% fee (and only 5% after first 10k), then Upwork WOULD have motivation to link freelancers with higher quality clients.  As it is now, Upwork benefits from the rat race of expert level freelancers scrambling for lower paying jobs.

 

*Not only does Upwork benefit in the form of the 20% fee, but they benefit through the cost of tokens/boosts that freelancers pay to apply to increasing number of jobs.

 

In conclusion, freelancers need to realize the ways in which Upwork is rigged against us.  Upwork profits more when we work a larger number of lower paying jobs (versus a smaller number of more quality jobs for higher paying clients).  They want us to have to clear the 20% hurdle over and over again.  They want us to apply and boost hundreds of jobs.  It is a rigged system.

petra_r
Community Member


Thomas J M wrote:

Upwork profits more when we work a larger number of lower paying jobs (versus a smaller number of more quality jobs for higher paying clients).  They want us to have to clear the 20% hurdle over and over again.


That whole post is based entirely on a completely false premise.

 

No, they actually don't. They were losing too much money on the small contracts, because they are costly (on average) to administer.


Upwork benefits most from long-term relationships between clients and freelancers, because they signal happy clients. Happy clients hire more, spend more money, initiate fewer disputes, don't file chargebacks and other nonsense that is costly to resolve.

 

It's only 20% on the first $500.

tjmisny
Community Member

Do the math - there is more profit is a freelancer has to clear the 20% hurdle 100 times versus 10 times.  It's $100 for every time the 20% hurdle is cleared.  It's more profit for Upwork every time a freelancer pays for more connects and boosts.  There is clear financial incentive for freelancers to be routed/nudged to a larger number of smaller paying jobs.  If a freelancer had only 1 long-term client, that's only paying out at 5% to Upwork.  Upwork would make less money if every freelancer had (1) 5% client.  

 

"It's only 20% on the first $500" - that's $100 for every new client.  It adds up when freelancers have to accept these smaller contracts in lieu of more substantial, longer-term relationships (of which there is a scarcity).  

petra_r
Community Member


Thomas J M wrote:

  It adds up when freelancers have to accept these smaller contracts in lieu of more substantial, longer-term relationships (of which there is a scarcity).  


Nobody "has to" accept anything. Running a business (which is what freelancing is) is hard. That's how it is. Some people are better at it than others and the majority of business start-ups fail. That's life.

tjmisny
Community Member

I agree 100%- nobody "has to" choose smaller jobs with a larger vig over larger, more substantial ones.  Nobody "has to "meet quotas for their monthly income.  Nobody "has to" pay rent.  Nobody "has to" pay bills.  Nobody "has to" get by month to month.  That's life!

tjmisny
Community Member

And let's say that you are correct - that it is indeed a loss for Upwork to host these smaller paying jobs.  Then my recommendation would be to penalize the client instead of the freelancer.  Give the client the additonal 10% service charge as opposed to shrugging it off to the freelancers who are trying to make ends meet.  

petra_r
Community Member

The client pays the fee anyway, Every Cent of the fee comes out of the clients pocket.

 

The fee is a business expense. It must be baked into the freelancer's rate / fee.

 

I don't really understand what your issue is. Your work is mainly huge contracts that go well into the 5% fee-zone.

 

tjmisny
Community Member

I already posted my issues with the 20% fee, I listed 4 bulletpoints.   If you don't understand what my issue is, I don't know what to tell you.  

 

My work is mainly large contracts because I refuse to work small contracts and get stuck clearing the 20% hurdle over and over again.  If Upwork would remove the 20% hurdle, I would be more interested in taking smaller jobs.  

gajjarvishal86
Community Member

Hi,

 

No, I don't thing so. You may look at this price as the customer acquisition cost. 15-20% of customer acquisition cost is not to high. 

2a05aa63
Community Member

Isn't any fee too high?

cetus
Community Member

yup, i feel it's too high for those who are just starting out. specially illustrators like my self who deals with projects on the low side of budget, considering there are too many deductibles (from service fees, payment request fees, and connect wastage from unresposive contractors) I was with Upwork when it was still O-desk and they rebrand to Upwork in 2015, that's when i have too move platform because i was having trouble earning coupled with the surge of competition back then. Still, I try to bid for projects from time to time, but then again, i always feel i'm putting out more resources (electricity and effort) than gaining profit. hope it gets better this time. all i can say to freelancers like me, is the best of luck to you all. stay safe.

heavenmade
Community Member

Upwork provides a service a connection you don't have. You all agreed to the terms of Upwork. So suck it up and win more contracts.  Just be thankful there is an Upwork platform that gives you an opportunity every day to make a new connection.

Anonymous-User
Not applicable

Personally, the 20% I think is in line with other platforms.

That's not to say things could be better but the 20% in your first $500 is okay.

 

Pete

3e85fbc6
Community Member

I keep seeing a number of replies saying "Well stop taking small jobs" and to just "get long-term clients".  Easier said than done?  Most of the time the longer-term jobs don't line up with my skills (everybody wants digital illustration instead of hand-drawn...even if they want a hand-drawn look...) and there's so much competition I don't even bother applying.  I've also seen plenty of "long-term" jobs that pay abysmal rates, and aren't willing to negotiate.  Can you even turn a "one-time" client into a long term one?  If someone needs books illustrated, but only ever publishes one book, what can you do?  Even if they love your work, they aren't going to hire you again unless they need you.

There is a simple solution - to inflate your hourly/fixed-price contracts to account for such fees (which other people have said).  Personally I get scared that when I do that clients are going to take one look at my price and flee to the hills.  I suppose time will tell.

Anonymous-User
Not applicable

I disagree, 20% for the first $500 is fair.

 

5f726e3f
Community Member

Yes.  After calculations between their fees for buying connections, getting paid, and the fees for every transaction they are collectiong 75% of the money for your projects (roughly).  You walk away with 25%. Anyone who builds a better service will put this one out of business quickly. 

It sounds like you are doing a horrible job of managing your business. 

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